Saved or not?

[Windmill]

So like, would you consider this person to be a biblically vertified 'believer'? I.e. not necessarily one that believes in all biblical truths, but one the bible would consider a believer hence one we are allowed to associate with. For we are told to be wary of those that call themselves believers yet are not. I will give some examples here;

[bible]1 Corinthians 5:9-10[/bible]

[bible]2 Corinthians 6:14[/bible]

[bible]Ephesians 5:6-11[/bible]

This person, they believe in Christ. They believe that he came to earth to die for the sake of our sins. That he is alive and he helps us lead a sinless nice. The individual accepts they are a sinful creature and asks God for forgiveness every day.

Heres the catch: they do not believe in an afterlife. As such, they believe that Jesus is our saviour, not because he saved us from the penalty we all think of- either death or eternal torture, depending on how you fly. But rather, he saved us from a sadder existence on this earth. Through living a life on earth sinless to show us and help us all then ending up dying for this on the cross, he was a sacrifice. However, his sacrifice didn't result in eternal life. Rather, it just opened an avenue for us to get closer to God.

The reason they are unsure on the afterlife issue, is because they are unsure on the bibles full credibility. They believe that some of it will be true but some of it won't be true. They are still nutting out their belief, but this is how it stands. They are however, extremely dedicated to Christ. When they feel convicted on a sin (e.g. taking his name in vain and lying particularly) they immediately stop doing that. They read the bible too, just are unsure on everything being correct in it. They love God, and put him first in their life. If anything interferes with God, they will put an end to it.

Would this count?

I personally believe that people from all denominations will be counted as saved and true believers at the end of time. If they believe in Christ Jesus, and make themselves new people through him through repenting their sin and relying on him to help them not sin as Christ was a sacrifice for our sins so that we may be saved from the penalty of sin.

They may get theology wrong, but if their heart is right and they would accept correct theology if it was shown to be right to them, I think they would count as saved. Do you? God works with us at our different situations. This person is new to the faith. They are growing. But their heart is in the right place. They are putting Christ first in their life, in all they do. They do not believe in baptism, though, not because they wouldn't do it, but it doesn't to them feel like God is convicting them on that point. Would they still be saved?

I am looking for scriptural evidence here

This person- their morals are good (bar of course, things like the Sabbath) yet I have trouble saying that not believing in the blessed hope of the afterlife would stop them from being considered a true believer- even saved.

[bible]Romans 10:9[/bible]

It is believing that Christ came to die for our sins and believing in his existence and wanting to live our lives for him and giving ourselves for him- letting him take control of our lives- being repentant of sin and wishing to stop with his help- it is this that makes one a Christian and saved, NOT aspects of theology. For we will all probably be ignorant of some of Gods laws or even know them yet not feel convicted and break them anyway- but if we would truly obey them then THIS is what makes us a Christian.

 

[vernee]

Hmm....I've wondered about that a lot. I would say that they are on the way to believing fully in God. Its weird that they can trust God but not his word. And Jesus opening up an avenue for them to be closer to God is kinda weird. I actually think that people were closer to God in the Old Testament rather than the New. This is a weird big question Is it one of your friends or something

 

[Windmill]

Hmm....I've wondered about that a lot. I would say that they are on the way to believing fully in God. Its weird that they can trust God but not his word. And Jesus opening up an avenue for them to be closer to God is kinda weird. I actually think that people were closer to God in the Old Testament rather than the New. This is a weird big question Is it one of your friends or something

Lets just say its someone I know

Its not so much they can't trust his word, its that they don't know if it is his word or not. Thats the thing... they don't know if this is what God told humanity. I can understand their concerns however I myself have many reasons to know that it is true the person is what you might call an "intellectual type" which makes it a huge miracle that they were convicted of Christ at all- it is rather that they do not have enough proof, hence go off conviction and do not feel convicted that the bible is infallible.

It is for this reason I feel that they should count as a Christian. They believe in Christ, repent their sins, feel they need him to help them not sin as they can't do it on their own, feel they are a sinner ans know it is bad and have a heart and mind that wishes to stop- feel Christ came to this earth for that purpose- yet do not believe in the afterlife. It is a strange situation.

I believe there is much evidence to suggest that there is an afterlife though that I will discuss with them, but I am still not sure if they should biblically be classed as a Christian. Yet if we do not classify this individual, what about the countless others out there that say, didn't get baptised? I think there will be many in heaven who did not and did not feel they needed to, yet God will forgive their ignorance and look to the heart and see it was willing. I think he fits the biblical definition.

[bible]Romans 10:9[/bible]

But I also understand I am young so there are much wiser folk out there.

 

[fanatiquefou]

I would say that it's between God and this person and that no one else has the right to determine someone's "saved status".

 

[Windmill]

That is true Though we are told to be wary of those that call themselves believers but are not really. Would we deem this person a believer? I will reword the thread.

 

[Loveaboveall]

If a person does not believe the bible to be true than how can they believe in Jesus? However, as stated earlier, it is not for us to judge anothers heart.

If you are asking if it is okay to date this person, in reference to the unequally yoked idea. I may have to give that some more thought.

 

[Windmill]

If a person does not believe the bible to be true than how can they believe in Jesus? However, as stated earlier, it is not for us to judge anothers heart.

If you are asking if it is okay to date this person, in reference to the unequally yoked idea. I may have to give that some more thought.

That is an interesting question, actually. Would that be OK? If that would be OK then they would count as a "believer".

 

[studyfirst]

Hi,

Perhaps this will help.

Biblical Authority
2 Peter 1:21
Hebrews 1:1-3

Spiritual Growth
2 Peter 1:5-10

More later.

Remember, there are some who profess Christianity, but who are involved with the ideas of the New Age movement/Spiritualism. Pray much. Study hard.

 

[Loveaboveall]

The big problem is this: The Bible is Jesus testimony! All of it! If you don't believe that the Bible is true then how can you believe that Jesus is who it says He is? I don't see how these can coexist in the same mind and a person believe in Jesus but not the Bible. But... I cannot judge anothers heart!

 

[TrustAndObey]

Windmill, I would suggest befriending this person, but I'd definitely hold off on dating them. I think the best testimony we can give to the validity of the Word is to live it and show by example.

I'm always so proud to see you post and to see that your main center is Christ and you always want to do what's right.

My second cousin, also 16, died this week from taking drugs while drinking alcohol. He was my mother's sister's grandson.

It is a great tragedy and we'll be attending his funeral this coming Monday.

I didn't know him very well, but I do know now that he didn't believe in scripture or salvation. He believed we made our own destiny. Unfortunately, the one he made, I am sure, was not the one God would've helped him make.

Your friend not believing in an afterlife, in my opinion, makes it impossible for him to truly believe in Christ. If Christ didn't rise, our faith is in vain.

Don't turn your back on him. Let him know that Christ definitely rose and we can be ASSURED that our faith isn't in vain!

 

[honorthesabbath]

The big problem is this: The Bible is Jesus testimony! All of it! If you don't believe that the Bible is true then how can you believe that Jesus is who it says He is? I don't see how these can coexist in the same mind and a person believe in Jesus but not the Bible. But... I cannot judge anothers heart!

Excellent response LOVE!!!

 

[honorthesabbath]

Windmill, I would suggest befriending this person, but I'd definitely hold off on dating them. I think the best testimony we can give to the validity of the Word is to live it and show by example.

I'm always so proud to see you post and to see that your main center is Christ and you always want to do what's right.

My second cousin, also 16, died this week from taking drugs while drinking alcohol. He was my mother's sister's grandson.

It is a great tragedy and we'll be attending his funeral this coming Monday.

I didn't know him very well, but I do know now that he didn't believe in scripture or salvation. He believed we made our own destiny. Unfortunately, the one he made, I am sure, was not the one God would've helped him make.

Your friend not believing in an afterlife, in my opinion, makes it impossible for him to truly believe in Christ. If Christ didn't rise, our faith is in vain.

Don't turn your back on him. Let him know that Christ definitely rose and we can be ASSURED that our faith isn't in vain!

Sorry to hear about your Cousin Truth--death at any age is sad (for Jesus says that death is the enemy)--but at 16?--Wow--thats a tragedy. Especially since, as you say, he was not in Christ.

Maybe if this young person had been filled with God's Spirit--then no desire would be there for drugs and alcohol.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Sorry to hear about your Cousin Truth--death at any age is sad (for Jesus says that death is the enemy)--but at 16?--Wow--thats a tragedy. Especially since, as you say, he was not in Christ.

Maybe if this young person had been filled with God's Spirit--then no desire would be there for drugs and alcohol.

He died at his girlfriend's house. They found him 12 hours after he died.

He got in with the wrong crowd about two years ago everyone is saying.

My oldest is 13 and I am going to watch him like a hawk from now on! I don't want to be one of those parents that looks back and says "I should've been more involved".

 

[airfro14]

The big problem is this: The Bible is Jesus testimony! All of it! If you don't believe that the Bible is true then how can you believe that Jesus is who it says He is? I don't see how these can coexist in the same mind and a person believe in Jesus but not the Bible. But... I cannot judge anothers heart!

Well put, this is what I was thinking as i was reading through the posts. I too believe that there will be people saved from all different denominations. Each will be judged according to the light that they have (ive been looking for the text, i'll edit when i find it). If one is ignorant of a particular truth, God will not hold it against them.

 

[Windmill]

Windmill, I would suggest befriending this person, but I'd definitely hold off on dating them. I think the best testimony we can give to the validity of the Word is to live it and show by example.

The reason I broght up dating was purely a way to test if they would be biblically deemed a 'believer' i.e. a Christian. OK... so you wouldn't consider them saved/a biblical 'believer'?

I'm always so proud to see you post and to see that your main center is Christ and you always want to do what's right.

Thank you Hopefully, I can only get better at it.

My second cousin, also 16, died this week from taking drugs while drinking alcohol. He was my mother's sister's grandson.

It is a great tragedy and we'll be attending his funeral this coming Monday.

Aw, I'm so sorry! My condolences to the family.

I didn't know him very well, but I do know now that he didn't believe in scripture or salvation. He believed we made our own destiny. Unfortunately, the one he made, I am sure, was not the one God would've helped him make.

Your friend not believing in an afterlife, in my opinion, makes it impossible for him to truly believe in Christ. If Christ didn't rise, our faith is in vain.

See, this is what REALLY makes my friend confusing.

• They believe that the scripture will be right sometimes- but they have trouble putting faith in it as it was written by man. Instead, my friend looks over scripture, prays, and then will feel convicted on certain points, i.e. taking Gods name in vain.
• They believe that we get to, of course, make our own choices, but feel Gods way is the best way and so they pray to God that they can submit their life into his will.
• They don't do drugs and stuff... have better morals than a lot of adventist kids. Morals are good, though... doesn't get drunk (barely drinks at all- only when at family events and he gets served wine) no smoking, drugs, doesn't lie, tries to do whats best for all humanity sort of thing (though in a right-winged fashion) They repent their sins to God every night.
• They believe Christ was God, he died for our sins and was then raised again. They believe that there is some type of "reward" for following Christ- but they don't care what it is. They just are not yet sure IF it is eternal life. What they care about is when they sin, they feel it hurts God, so they don't want to sin and hurt God, also, their relationship with him. Their relationship with God is based heavily on prayer, and some reading, though they think the bible in infallible.

Don't turn your back on him. Let him know that Christ definitely rose and we can be ASSURED that our faith isn't in vain!

He believes that at least, luckily he doesn't think its in vain, he's just, not sure if we get eternal life. Of course, doesn't keep the sabbath and what not... but how many Christians outside the SDA church do O_O

 

[TrustAndObey]

Windmill, I can't judge your friend's heart.

I was just expressing how *I* feel it would be impossible to truly believe in Christ if you don't believe in the promise of living with Him forever.

But we're all in different places in our walk, and this is something that God will communicate to your friend eventually. That the promise IS eternal life with Him.

I'll send up some prayers for your friend!

 

[Windmill]

Windmill, I can't judge your friend's heart.

I was just expressing how *I* feel it would be impossible to truly believe in Christ if you don't believe in the promise of living with Him forever.

But we're all in different places in our walk, and this is something that God will communicate to your friend eventually. That the promise IS eternal life with Him.

I'll send up some prayers for your friend!

You're right. Thank you very much

 

[JohnMarsten]

a very tough topic that will have as many answers as there are believers...

as for me, I do not consider myself a good person (yes, I know one could argue that no one is good)...

EGW says that we shouldnt tell anyone that he is saved for example after baptism but to give people time to prove themselves...

Well, thats very tough...

As for me, I cling to the believe that whoever has the Son has eternal life... God will make it all come true (no need to understand all the mysteries of faith,let God do the work) so in the end I guess believing that we are saved is part of the deal...