Satan's Sin

[IronFire]

Satan's fall is very interesting when examining the nature and extent of "free-will".

No one tempted Satan to sin. He didn't have a sinful nature.

So how could he concieve of the notion of sin/wrong/disobedience?

What caused Satan to sin?

 

[moonbeam]

Satan's fall is very interesting when examining the nature and extent of "free-will".

Did he jump ?........or was he pushed ?

No one tempted Satan to sin. He didn't have a sinful nature.

Then why did he sin ?....only a sinner can sin.......Maybe he didn't realize that he was a sinner...untill he sinned ?

So how could he concieve of the notion of sin/wrong/disobedience?

Exactly....such things did not exist/did they.....so where did they come from ?.....The Word begins..."In the beginning God"......and He says "Let there be light" (Let Light Be)....so where did the darkness come from ?......was it here already ?.....Did somebody else make it ?

What caused Satan to sin?

The Word begins....."In the beggining God..."

 

[holdon]

Did he jump ?........or was he pushed ?
Then why did he sin ?....only a sinner can sin.......Maybe he didn't realize that he was a sinner...untill he sinned ?
Exactly....such things did not exist/did they.....so where did they come from ?.....The Word begins..."In the beginning God"......and He says "Let there be light" (Let Light Be)....so where did the darkness come from ?......was it here already ?.....Did somebody else make it ?
The Word begins....."In the beggining God..."

So God made Satan a sinner. What does that make God?

 

[IronFire]

Then why did he sin ?....only a sinner can sin.......Maybe he didn't realize that he was a sinner...untill he sinned ?

So God made 1/3 of the angels with sinful natures but not the others? That doesn't make sense on any level. How could angels be in the presense of God if they have sinful natures?

 

[Philip]

Then why did he sin ?....only a sinner can sin.......

This seems backwards. It is not that one sins because one is a sinner. Rather, one is a sinner because one sins.

So God made 1/3 of the angels with sinful natures but not the others? That doesn't make sense on any level.

I agree

How could angels be in the presense of God if they have sinful natures?

Not sure what you meant by this.

 

[moonbeam]

So God made Satan a sinner. What does that make God?

GOD

 

[moonbeam]

So God made 1/3 of the angels with sinful natures but not the others? That doesn't make sense on any level. How could angels be in the presense of God if they have sinful natures?

How could God grow in the womb of a sinner like Mary ?......I hope you dont hold the rediculous view that Mary was perfect and without sin ?

 

[moonbeam]

This seems backwards. It is not that one sins because one is a sinner. Rather, one is a sinner because one sins.

Of course sinners sin....thats what they will eventually do..........thats the reason we eventually sin (in practice)........because we are sinners....and thats why Satan sinned.

I agree

I disagree....with your agreement.......There are elect angels as well as elect humans.

 

[_CJ_]

A little tantrum in, why not. Even if there's no way of figuring out satan's sin,

why do WE sin?are we little creatures with some of the satan's defaults?

even I after a bump like this would never ever cast the sinning factor in any of creatures I'm up to create.

Or a better one: satan received the creating power from God and created US! God with the gunslinger's reaction fuse quickly disabled him from creating and and now buys us back bacuse of His love to us. That would justify the crucifiction for me. But I'm insane for giving up all my pleasures to buy my ticket into Heaven, so nevermind me.

 

[holdon]

GOD

Of course you need to scream.

But God cannot make anything bad. Or He needs to have evil in Himself.

So, how is your god, combining good and evil in himself?

 

[Philip]

Of course sinners sin....thats what they will eventually do..........thats the reason we eventually sin (in practice)........because we are sinners....

So Adam originally sinned because he was a sinner? God created him a sinner? One must wonder why God described His creation as 'good'. Further, one must wonder why we discuss the Fall. If man was made sinful, what is the point of discussing the first sin? What effect does it have on us?

and thats why Satan sinned.
....There are elect angels as well as elect humans.

I assume you have Scriptural support for the 'election' of angels.

How could God grow in the womb of a sinner like Mary ?

In precisely the same way He was able to walk in a sinful world for 33 years.

 

[IronFire]

How could God grow in the womb of a sinner like Mary ?......I hope you dont hold the rediculous view that Mary was perfect and without sin ?

No. I was pointing out the fact that Satan was the top angel and worshiped in the presense of God (as did other angels). It doesn't make sense that he, as a sinner, was allowed into to such a place, let alone be the top worshiper.

There are elect angels as well as elect humans.

Why? Doesn't it make more sense to say that God truly didn't want Satan to sin...and having given Satan the power choose between right and wrong, Satan chose to do wrong?

 

[moonbeam]

No. I was pointing out the fact that Satan was the top angel and worshiped in the presense of God (as did other angels). It doesn't make sense that he, as a sinner, was allowed into to such a place, let alone be the top worshiper.

Was he a sinner than ?......I mean...had he sinned at that point ? ...... or was he innocent (so to speak) ?........by that I mean he had not as yet shown any imperfection.?.....he had not as yet shown himself to be a sinner...but he would.....Do you think he would still be leading the choir after that ?

Why? Doesn't it make more sense to say that God truly didn't want Satan to sin...and having given Satan the power choose between right and wrong, Satan chose to do wrong?

Do you know of any scriptures where angelic beings are given a choice to do, or not to do anything ?........Does Satan do what ever he likes ?.....Doesn't scripture show that he does nothing....unless it is cleared with God first.

 

[ian90]

Do you know of any scriptures where angelic beings are given a choice to do, or not to do anything ?........

I wouldn't argue with the fact angels have a choice to obey or not, given the fact that they have already rebelled. Somehow I don't think they were doing as they were told...

 

[moonbeam]

I wouldn't argue with the fact angels have a choice to obey or not, given the fact that they have already rebelled. Somehow I don't think they were doing as they were told...

How do you know that ?......I can prove from scripture that Satan himself...the Captain of their host...does what he is told, in that he can only do that, which GOD COMMANDS...(which God permits)

 

[PastorMikeJ]

PRIDE!

 

[moonbeam]

PRIDE!

Pride...inflated ego...consumed with ones own importance...the lust for "free"dom....from the tyrany of obedience...................many things may have fermented away in Satans heart.
But you cant have fermentation without "yeast"....where did the "yeast" come from ?....that caused the fermentation in his heart ?.......Where did the corruption (yeast) come from, espeacially in one who God, Himself states was "perfect" on the dat that he (Satan) was created ?.......Did God fool Himself ? ...Did He fail in His final "quality control check" of Satan ?.......Did the "PERFECT" God create the "imperfect" creature ?......................Or when GOD said that the Creation as well as Satan was created "PERFECT".... Did He not mean "perfect" for His Purposes ?

 

[PastorMikeJ]

why we think that God didn't give His angels free will?? or maybe when God announced to His angels that He was going to create man..that for awhile shall be lower than angels but will judge them...maybe that announcement caused Satan's pride to over take him and lead him into revolt against God...wanting to place his throne higher than God's...

 

[IronFire]

Pride...inflated ego...consumed with ones own importance...the lust for "free"dom....from the tyrany of obedience...................many things may have fermented away in Satans heart.
But you cant have fermentation without "yeast"....where did the "yeast" come from ?....that caused the fermentation in his heart ?.......Where did the corruption (yeast) come from, espeacially in one who God, Himself states was "perfect" on the dat that he (Satan) was created ?.......Did God fool Himself ? ...Did He fail in His final "quality control check" of Satan ?.......Did the "PERFECT" God create the "imperfect" creature ?......................Or when GOD said that the Creation as well as Satan was created "PERFECT".... Did He not mean "perfect" for His Purposes ?

Or maybe God gave Satan the ability to cause his own actions. Satan could choose to love God or hate God. If he did not choose that means he was forced, right?

 

[holdon]

Pride...inflated ego...consumed with ones own importance...the lust for "free"dom....from the tyrany of obedience...................many things may have fermented away in Satans heart.
But you cant have fermentation without "yeast"....where did the "yeast" come from ?....that caused the fermentation in his heart ?.......Where did the corruption (yeast) come from, espeacially in one who God, Himself states was "perfect" on the dat that he (Satan) was created ?.......Did God fool Himself ? ...Did He fail in His final "quality control check" of Satan ?.......Did the "PERFECT" God create the "imperfect" creature ?......................Or when GOD said that the Creation as well as Satan was created "PERFECT".... Did He not mean "perfect" for His Purposes ?

Are you insinuating that God planted the germ (yeast) of evil in Satan?

Where did God get that germ from?