Satan!

LionofGod · Jun 15, 2006

God is the reason why Satan lives on!
If God created Satan and kept him, then, as the saying goes, every man (or god) is known by his fruits.
Why be mad at Satan for what he does? Should we not be mad at the god that 'let the beast out of the cage'?

ReluctantProphet · Jun 16, 2006

LionofGod said:
Should we not be mad at the god that 'let the beast out of the cage'?

You have a serious MISunderstand of God, the Devil, Satan, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, spirit, holiness, evil, Evil, good, soul, and many other related concepts. Thus to answer your question would take a great deal of discussion.

Lilly of the Valley · Jun 18, 2006

LionofGod said:
God is the reason why Satan lives on!
If God created Satan and kept him, then, as the saying goes, every man (or god) is known by his fruits.
Why be mad at Satan for what he does? Should we not be mad at the god that 'let the beast out of the cage'?

Why blame God for man willfully taking satan's bait to begin w/ and choosing him and his perverse way despite knowing truth? Yes, God allows satan some freedom, but again, man doesn't have to do anything satan tries to make him/her...that's our own choice...and God even is willing to help us at that and man still rejects it.

tcampen · Jun 19, 2006

The serpent was one of God's creatures, whom god did not condemn until after God learned the serpent convinced Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. If the serpent was Satan, then that gets interesting, doesn't it? Why would God intentionally put Satan in the garden, if not to do what God needed to happen anyway? It gets pretty twisted if you take it as more than an allegory.

ReluctantProphet · Jun 19, 2006

tcampen said:
The serpent was one of God's creatures, whom god did not condemn until after God learned the serpent convinced Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. If the serpent was Satan, then that gets interesting, doesn't it? Why would God intentionally put Satan in the garden, if not to do what God needed to happen anyway? It gets pretty twisted if you take it as more than an allegory.

Satan is not the serpent of the garden.

The serpent being referred to in the garden is most easily understood by what you call "temptation" or perhaps the very cause of temptation. Temptation has a cause, that cause is what they referred to in many religions as a serpent or snake. This is one of the many metaphors used by spiritually minded people. Israel was named after the understanding of that cause.

"Satan" refers to a particular type of governing that happens to utilize the very cause of temptation so as to keep people tempted away from their real needs and in constant conflict and struggle as they slowly die.

Stinker · Jun 19, 2006

The original teaching about an evil super spirit, resurrection, re-incarnation, virgin births, and cleansing temporary fire, did not come from the Jews or Christians, As a matter of fact, the ancient Jewish community was divided over these teachings. (Mt.16:13-14, 22:23-28)

In the original teaching of the religion that the ancient Jews took from, their was no super evil spirit. The original teaching was that we all create our own evil. That we are all responsible for our own evil. Not another person or super spirit, just us.

The name of the negativity that we tend to nurture and spread was named Angra Mainyu. Later magi claimed that there was revelation given that this name was now to be attributed to a super spirit. The ancient Jews now called it Satan. (Job 1:6-7)

JonF · Jun 20, 2006

ReluctantProphet said:
Satan is not the serpent of the garden.

The serpent being referred to in the garden is most easily understood by what you call "temptation" or perhaps the very cause of temptation. Temptation has a cause, that cause is what they referred to in many religions as a serpent or snake. This is one of the many metaphors used by spiritually minded people. Israel was named after the understanding of that cause.

"Satan" refers to a particular type of governing that happens to utilize the very cause of temptation so as to keep people tempted away from their real needs and in constant conflict and struggle as they slowly die.

Uh no, the bible very clearly teaches that Satan is a cognitive being.

lucifersgirl · Jun 20, 2006

satan

It is all good in the land of the dead.

Lilly of the Valley · Jun 20, 2006

tcampen said:
The serpent was one of God's creatures, whom god did not condemn until after God learned the serpent convinced Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. If the serpent was Satan, then that gets interesting, doesn't it? Why would God intentionally put Satan in the garden, if not to do what God needed to happen anyway? It gets pretty twisted if you take it as more than an allegory.

One, satan ENTERED the serpent. Two, God allowed (not put) satan there because freewill. Adam and Eve had a choice...obey God or not and God entrusted them w/ responsibility. He even told them the consequences if they rebelled. Even a parent has to trust their child at some point.

lucifersgirl · Jun 20, 2006

Lilly of the Valley said:
One, satan ENTERED the serpent. Two, God allowed (not put) satan there because freewill. Adam and Eve had a choice...obey God or not and God entrusted them w/ responsibility. He even told them the consequences if they rebelled. Even a parent has to trust their child at some point.

That is a mistake Satan made a pact with God that he would become a snake only if he could have eve. Moses was not there to see the events for himself so he did not know about this or else he would of documented it.

ReluctantProphet · Jun 20, 2006

Lilly of the Valley said:
One, satan ENTERED the serpent.

Where did you get this idea? References?

ReluctantProphet · Jun 20, 2006

lucifersgirl said:
...Moses was not there to see the events for himself so he did not know about this or else he would of documented it.

Sooooo.. your references are???

tcampen · Jun 20, 2006

Lilly of the Valley said:
One, satan ENTERED the serpent. Two, God allowed (not put) satan there because freewill. Adam and Eve had a choice...obey God or not and God entrusted them w/ responsibility. He even told them the consequences if they rebelled. Even a parent has to trust their child at some point.

"ENTERED" the serpent? Hmmmmmmmmm

I guess that would explain how the snake could talk....

but isn't it interesting that God never mentions this little detail anywhere in Genesis or in any of the Hebrew scriptures?

And why didn't Eve say to herself, "That's odd, this snake is talking to me."?

Yea, I don't really think you have any biblical support for your contention, but it does wrap things up nicely from a theological perspective.

Livindesert · Jun 20, 2006

Satan came over for coffee cake and conversation the other day. Really a nice fellow once you get to know him.He is just out to make his Buck 'o five.

Lilly of the Valley · Jun 20, 2006

tcampen said:
"ENTERED" the serpent? Hmmmmmmmmm

I guess that would explain how the snake could talk....

but isn't it interesting that God never mentions this little detail anywhere in Genesis or in any of the Hebrew scriptures?

And why didn't Eve say to herself, "That's odd, this snake is talking to me."?

Yea, I don't really think you have any biblical support for your contention, but it does wrap things up nicely from a theological perspective.

Well, it's kinda common sense. Snakes aren't satan. Plus this verse gives a clue:

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

It's not saying that that will happen to that snake...but to satan, for he enterened the snake and is the one who tempted adam and Eve.

It doesn't matter. Bottom line, they rebelled knowing good and well it was sin.

Job_s_First_Son · Jun 20, 2006

Lilly of the Valley said:
Why blame God for man willfully taking satan's bait to begin w/ and choosing him and his perverse way despite knowing truth? Yes, God allows satan some freedom, but again, man doesn't have to do anything satan tries to make him/her...that's our own choice...and God even is willing to help us at that and man still rejects it.

Well I guess those people who blame God do so because, under most assumptions of what God is, he created adam and eve knowing they would fail.

Lilly of the Valley · Jun 21, 2006

Job_s_First_Son said:
Well I guess those people who blame God do so because, under most assumptions of what God is, he created adam and eve knowing they would fail.

Yep, but even a parent knows their child will make mistakes in life, do they then not have them because of that knowlege?

Im_A · Jun 21, 2006

Lilly of the Valley said:
Well, it's kinda common sense. Snakes aren't satan. Plus this verse gives a clue:

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

It's not saying that that will happen to that snake...but to satan, for he enterened the snake and is the one who tempted adam and Eve.

It doesn't matter. Bottom line, they rebelled knowing good and well it was sin.

enmity: The feelings of an enemy; a deep-seated hatred or animosity, ill-will.

so either one that verse isn't meant to be taken literally, to apply it to "Satan", it could mean how people are terrified by snakes and most of the time looked as a vile and scary creature and the consequences for a snake, or the condemnation of snakes losing it's legs and that now it's condemned to crawling on the ground, hence the references to bruising thy head, and the snake bruising the heal. or it could have nothing to do with literal analysis, and be more of an ancient telling of metaphorical lessons and told in a manner that many other ancient religious texts explain their lessons.

and why did you say it doesn't matter? is the metaphorical reasoning behind that story actually meaning more to you than some literal interpretation written thousands and thousands of years ago and written in a mindset that doesn't have a Gentile Christianity mindset?

Job_s_First_Son · Jun 21, 2006

Lilly of the Valley said:
Yep, but even a parent knows their child will make mistakes in life, do they then not have them because of that knowlege?

I believe that analogy is bad for a number of reasons, not the least of them being that God didn't give birth to Adam and eve but CREATED their very being. Also a loving parent who knew the mistakes would take steps to prevent it instead of encourage it. Also their is no "trust" God can have as he knows exactly what will happen.

But this well trodden path is best left for another thread.

The_Saint · Jun 22, 2006

Xanadu was in Heaven just before Adam & Eve ate the apple. He saw this snake flying and coming at Him so He grabbed it and broke the snake in half, simply because it looked evil.

Jesus exclaimed: What did you do that for?

So, Xanadu took the two halves in His hands, put the snake back together again, and let it go.

Jesus exclaimed: What did you do that for?

Xanadu, puzzled, looked at Jesus and said, I though you were mad at me for killing the snake. So, I put it back together again.

Jesus said, Thats Satan in that snake and now hes going to the earth to tempt Eve.

Satan!

Member

Well-Known Member

Legend

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Sapere Aude!

Member

Legend

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Legend

Regular Member

Legend

Legend

Regular Member

Active Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency