Satan the cherub?

[£amb]

Satan is locked away in death in the place of the dead [hell] for a thousand years before he and all who also died in sin are resurrected , the second resurrection, then God pours his spirit out on all flesh as promised in scripture [He could not do it before then since many already died in sin even before jesus came , they do not live again until the second resurrection, so if God keeps His promise then all men, including the resurrected Satan will receive all truth by menas of the holy spirit of God then :-

Reread Rev. 20:1-3:

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

Okay, that's easy enough to understand. Satan is bound for 1000yrs.




Now Rev. 20:7-8:

7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle.

After the 1000yrs., Satan is released to once again deceive the nations.



Rev. 20:9-10:


9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Satan is then thrown into the lake.




Rev. 20:11-15:

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


The dead are then judged. No where does it say that the dead are given a chance to repent at this point. Even if Satan, as you said, had a chance to repent...then when would it be done? When God threw him in the lake of sulfur...that pretty much sums up his fate. I don't think God intended Satan to be given a chance to repent. "If anyone's name is not found in the book of life".....are angels names found in the book of life? Do angels have to repent to be accepted in heaven? Satan was an angel....

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

When the devil acknowledges Jesus as Lord then he will have to obey that Lord since Jesus will be ruling "with a rod of iron" then unlike today in this world :-

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Thus Satan will eventually 'repent and live the life' as you put it... if you can do it and it works then it also works for Satan the man...



I don't see how you think that the 'prince of Tyre' can have been in the garden East of Eden if he were not the devil, the serpent ???

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;

Satan isn't the man, but satan is in the man who is called the antichrist. Thus, he can't get saved and satan lost out when he was taken out of heaven. The prince is a real prince, not the devil. The Eden part isn't referencing to the prince. It was a comparision (the chapter) to how the prince is being like the devil. It's in no way stating that he is the devil.

 

[stranger]

Satan isn't the man, but satan is in the man who is called the antichrist.

That is just your prior assumptions superimposed on scripture ... read Iaiah chap 14, which covers the same ground , again Satan manifests as a man and dies a mortal death for the sin of blasphemy

Thus, he can't get saved and satan lost out when he was taken out of heaven.

Again the scripture says explicitly that Satan was created and that all created beings are redeemed to believe in and submit to Jesus as their REAL Lord , one whom they obey ,and Jesus rules with a rod of iron ... that is all that you do to be redeemed so why would you need to pretend that it is not enough for anyone? God does not respect persons, it is the same for anyone

The prince is a real prince, not the devil.

Again you say that , but the scripture does not , how could any original prince of Tyre still be alive even for these events, no human being lives that long , so it has to be the manifested Satan

The Eden part isn't referencing to the prince.

Why do you say that when the scripture says that it is ?

It was a comparision (the chapter) to how the prince is being like the devil. It's in no way stating that he is the devil.

Rather it is the other way around , the scripture has no interest in prophesying about an ancient long-dead prince and these prophecies could not apply to such a man who is long dead and will not live again until the second ressurection in the new earth ... and that would make the prophecies unable to be fulfilled since the antichrist must come over a thousand years BEFORE the second resurrection..

Thus it is the price/king of Tyre that represents Satan as a man , not the other way around, as clarified by his being in Eden ... again read Isaiah 14 which independently covers the manifestation and death of Satan as a mortal man

 

[Lilly of the Valley]

Forget it. You just aren't seeing the truth. You can just keep believing what you believe. The Lord Himself can revel the truth to you.

 

[herev]

[move][sign]MOD HAT ON[/sign][/move]
Please note. Discussion is good, and we may disagree, but let's not forget we're all on the same side here. Biblical study and interpretation is by necessity a difficult thing for people to find common ground on, but in Jesus, our common ground is solid rock. Let's treat each other with respect and the love of Christ. There should also be no debate in this forum.
Thanks
[move][sign]MOD HAT OFF[/sign][/move]

 

[nephilimiyr]

Please note. Discussion is good, debate is good, but let's not forget we're all on the same side here. Biblical study and interpretation is by necessity a difficult thing for people to find common ground on, but in Jesus, our common ground is solid rock.

I'm hopeing to get a explanation here. In the Sons of God of Genesis thread the moderator Tenorvoice gave a warning where he said that there was suppose to be no debateing in this forum. Can I get a clarification on this?

 

[herev]

I'm hopeing to get a explanation here. In the Sons of God of Genesis thread the moderator Tenorvoice gave a warning where he said that there was suppose to be no debateing in this forum. Can I get a clarification on this?

you are absolutely right, I will change my mod hat note, discussion is good, no debate

 

[nephilimiyr]

you are absolutely right, I will change my mod hat note, discussion is good, no debate

LOL, ok thanks!

 

[stranger]

Discussion is good, and we may disagree, but let's not forget we're all on the same side here. ...There should also be no debate in this forum.

What is the subtle difference between discussion in which one disagrees and debate , are u just saying be friends not enemies? , cos' if so , debate does not have any implications of necessary unfriendliness ... so please say clearly what u mean if u are determined to make rules ...

 

[herev]

What is the subtle difference between discussion in which one disagrees and debate , are u just saying be friends not enemies? , cos' if so , debate does not have any implications of necessary unfriendliness ... so please say clearly what u mean if u are determined to make rules ...

actually, I don't make rules, I enforce them
the difference is in the "tone" of the post. I have no doubt that you understand that at times we are criticizing and disparaging the belief, interpretation, idea, etc., yet other times we are criticizing and putting down the person. that is the basic difference. Keep the tone friendly. If you disagree with their position, fine, state so and state why, but do not disparage them.
I disagree with your interpretation...(and here's why)==ok
or
I think you are being hardheaded==not ok

does that make sense?

 

[stranger]

Yes ,thanks ... that would be a better way of writing the rule I think

A good enough rule ,I think , too

 

[stranger]

The 'voice' of the final antichrist ?

“Out of the temporary evil we are now compelled to commit, will emerge the good of an
unshakable rule, which will restore the regular course of the machinery of the national
life, brought to naught by liberalism. The result justifies the means. Let us, however, in
our plans, direct our attention not to what is good and moral, as to what is necessary and
useful. Our power in the present tottering condition of all forms of power will be more
invisible than any other, because it will remain invisible until the moment when it has
gained such strength that no cunning can any longer undermine it. Before us is a plan in
which is laid down strategically the line from which we cannot deviate without running
the risk of seeing the labor of many centuries brought to naught...”
“Only force conquers in political affairs, especially if it be concealed in the talents
essential to statesmen ... This evil is the one and only means to attain the end, the good.
Therefore we must not stop at bribery, deceit, and treachery, when they should serve
towards the attainment of our end. In politics one must know how to seize the property of
others without hesitation if by it we secure submission and sovereignty.”
“Our international rights will then wipe out national rights, in the proper sense of right,
and will rule the nations precisely as the civil law of States rules the relations of their
subjects among themselves. The administrators, whom we shall choose from among the
public, with strict regard to their capacities for servile obedience, will not be persons
trained in the art of government, and will therefore easily become pawns in our game in
the hands of men of learning and genius who will be their advisors, specialists bred and
reared from early childhood to rule the affairs of the whole world.”
“Do not suppose for a moment that those statements are empty words: think carefully of
the successes we arranged for Darwinism, Marxism, Nietzcheism. To us, at any rate, it
should be plain to see what a disintegrating importance these directives have had upon
the minds of the goyim (a slur against those who were not Jewish).”
“Through the Press we have gained the power to influence while remaining ourselves in
the shade; thanks to the Press we have got the gold in our hands, notwithstanding that we
have had to gather it out of the oceans of blood and tears.”
“To this end we have stirred up every form of enterprise, we have armed all parties, we
have set up authority as a target for every ambition ... disorders and bankruptcy will be
universal.”
“We appear on the scene as alleged saviors of the worker from this oppression when we
propose to him to enter the ranks of our fighting forces– Socialists, Anarchists,
Communists– to whom we will always give support.”
“Our power is in the chronic shortness of food ... Hunger creates the right of capital to
rule the worker more surely than it was given to the aristocracy by the legal authority of
kings.”
“By want and the envy and hatred which it engenders we shall move the mobs and with
their hands we shall wipe out all those who hinder us ... When the hour strikes for our
Sovereign Lord of all the World to be crowned it is these same hands which will sweep
away everything that might be a hindrance thereto.”
“This hatred will be still further magnified by the effects of an economic crisis, which
will stop dealings on the exchanges and bring industry to a standstill. We shall create by
all the secret subterranean methods open to us and with the aid of gold, which is all in our
hands, a universal economic crisis whereby we shall throw upon the streets whole mobs
of workers simultaneously in all the countries of Europe.”
“Remember the French Revolution, to which it was we who gave the name of ‘Great’: the
secrets of its preparations are well known to us, for it was wholly the work of our
hands...”
“We shall create an intensified centralization of government in order to grip in our hands
all the forces of the community. We shall regulate mechanically all the actions of the
political life of our subjects by new laws ... These laws will withdraw one by one all the
indulgences and liberties which have been permitted ... to wipe out any unenlightened
who oppose us by deed or word.”
“We have set one against another the personal and national reckonings of the goyim
religious and race hatred, which we have fostered into a huge growth in the course of the
past twenty centuries. This is the reason why there is one State which would anywhere
receive support if it were to raise its arm, for every one of them must bear in mind that
any agreement against us would be unprofitable to itself. We are too strong– there is no
evading our power. The nations cannot come to even an inconsiderable private agreement
without our secretly having a hand in it...”
“Nowadays it is more important to disarm the peoples then to lead them into war...”
“In order to put public opinion into our hands we must bring it into a state of
bewilderment by giving expression from all sides to so many contradictory opinions and
for such length of time as will suffice to make the goyim lose their heads in the labyrinth
and come to see that the best thing is to have no opinion of any kind in matters political,
which it is not given to the public to understand, because they are understood only by him
who guides the public. This is the final secret.”
“By all these means we shall so wear down the goyim that they will be compelled to offer
us international power of a nature that by its position will enable us, without any
violence, gradually to absorb all the State forces of the world and to form a Super-
Government ... Its hands will reach out in all directions like nippers and its organization
will be of such colossal dimensions that it cannot fail to subdue all the nations of the
world.”
“We shall raise the rate of wages, which, however, will not bring any advantage to the
workers, for at the same time, we shall produce a rise in prices ... We shall further
undermine artfully and deeply sources of production, by accustoming the workers to
anarchy and to drunkedness ... In order that the true meaning of things may not strike the
unenlightened before the proper time we shall mask it under an alleged ardent desire to
serve the working classes and the great principles of political economy about which our
economic theories are carrying on an energetic propaganda.”
“The intensification of armaments, the increase of police forces– are all essential for the
completion of the aforementioned plans. What we have to get at is that there should be in
all the States of the world, besides ourselves, only the masses of the proletariat, a few
millionaires devoted to our interests, police and soldiers.”
“In a word, to sum up our system of keeping the governments of the goyim in Europe in
check, we shall show our strength to one of them by terrorist attempts and to all, if we
allow the possibility of general rising against us, we shall respond with the guns of
America or China or Japan.”
“Our directorate must surround itself with all these forces of civilization among which it
will have to work. It will surround itself with publicists, practical jurists, administrators,
diplomats and, finally, with persons prepared by a special super-educational training in
our special schools.”
“We have in our service persons of all opinions, of all doctrines, restoring monarchists,
demagogues, socialists, communists, and utopian dreamers of every kind. We have
harnessed them all to one task: each one of them on his own account is boring away at the
last remnants of authority, is striving to overthrow all established forms of order.”
“We have fooled, bemused and corrupted the youth of the goyim by rearing them in
principles and theories which are known to us to be false although it is by us that they
have been inculcated.”
“Above the existing laws without altering them, and by merely twisting them into
contradictions of interpretations, we have erected something grandiose in the way of
results. These results found expression first in the fact that the interpretations masked the
laws: afterwards they entirely hid them from the eyes of the government owing to the
impossibility of making anything out of the tangled web of legislation.”
“The chamber of deputies will provide cover for, will protect, will elect presidents, but
we shall take from it the right to propose new, or make changes in existing laws, for this
right will be given by us to the responsible president, a puppet in our hands ... We shall
invest the president with the right of declaring a state of war...”
“Not a single announcement will reach the public without our control. Even now this is
already attained by us inasmuch as all news items are received by a few agencies, in
whose offices they are focused from all parts of the world. These agencies will then be
already entirely ours and will give publicity only to what we dictate to them.”
“Our wise men, trained to become leaders of the goyim, will compose speeches, projects,
memoirs, articles, which will be used by us to influence the minds of the goyim, directing
them towards such understanding and forms of knowledge as have been determined by
us.”
“Economic crises have been produced by us for the goyim by no other means than the
withdrawal of money from circulation ... You are aware that the gold standard has been
the ruin of the States which adopted it, for it has not been able to satisfy the demands for
money, the more so that we have removed gold from circulation as far as possible.”
“Thanks to such methods (paying interest on loans), allowed by the carelessness of the
goy States, their treasuries are empty. The period of loan supervenes, and that has
swallowed up remainders and brought all the goy states to bankruptcy.”
“...any form of taxation per head, the State is baling out the last coppers of the poor
taxpayers in order to settle accounts with wealthy foreigners, from whom it borrowed
money from the pockets of the poor to those of the rich...”
“We have got our hands into the administration of the law, into the conduct of elections,
into the press, into the liberty of the person, but principally into education and training as
being the corner-stones of a free existence.”
“...it is indispensable for us to undermine all faith, to tear of minds out of the
unenlightened the very principle of Godhead and the spirit, and to put in its place
arithmetical calculations and material needs.”
“When we come into our kingdom it will be undesirable for us that there should exist any
other religion but ours of the ‘One God’ with whom our destiny is bound up by our
position as the Chosen People and through whom our same destiny is united with the
destinies of the world. We must therefore sweep away all other forms of belief.”

“When the hour strikes for our Sovereign Lord of all the World to
be crowned it is these hands which will sweep away everything that might be a hinderance
thereto. ‘Ours’ they will not touch, because the moment of the attack will be known to us and we
shall take measures to protect our own. Ever since that time we have been leading the peoples
from one disenchantment to another, so that in the end they should turn also from us in favor of
that King- Despot of the blood of Sion, whom we are preparing for the world.”
... “When the King of Israel sets upon his sacred head the crown
offered to him by Europe he will become the patriarch of the world.”
... “The
King of the Jews will be the real Pope of the Universe, the patriarch of an international church.”
... “I pass now to the method of confirming the dynastic roots of King David
to the last strata of the earth. The prop of humanity in the person of the supreme lord of all the
world of the holy seed of David must sacrifice to his people all personal inclinations.”
It concludes by saying that “certain members of the Seed of David will prepare the Kings and
their heirs ... 0nly the King and the three who stood sponsor for him will know what is coming.”
It is signed “...by the representatives of Sion, of the 33rd degree.”

From a expose on the all-too-real forces of the antichrist dominating our world :-
http://members.localnet.com/~darivera/Final%20Warning-on.pdf
[reqires free Adobe Acrobat reader to download]

 

[stranger]

The dead are then judged. No where does it say that the dead are given a chance to repent at this point. Even if Satan, as you said, had a chance to repent...then when would it be done? When God threw him in the lake of sulfur...that pretty much sums up his fate. I don't think God intended Satan to be given a chance to repent. "If anyone's name is not found in the book of life".....are angels names found in the book of life? Do angels have to repent to be accepted in heaven? Satan was an angel....

What u seem to ignore is that 'fire' is simpy symbolic of trial ... the 'lake of fire' isn;t on fire any more than men are tried by being purged by being burned :-

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Thus rather notice first that both death and hell are destroyed in the lake of fire, no-one dies any more after that [thus final] resurrection to trial (one cannot judge or try dead people, and the dead cannot experience or suffer ,either )

Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

Thus it would be ver starnge indeed if, as you claim, God first resurrected Satan and the evil men who follow him just to kill them again , why bother resurrecting them at all? ... but even more bizarre would be the act of then imortalising them in the lake of fire [for their supposed eternal torment ], thus making an eternal opposition to God's way , another way of existing eternally ...

Rather observe that God's mercy extends into the lake of fire because it endures for all time ... and notice that the difference in the final trial is simply that there are ONLY evil men there ... thus evil simply cannot 'flourish' as it does in thos world because there are no fall-guys, no-one left to prey upon... it is God's rather elegant loving way of demonstrating to those who will not listen to his truth that evil really is not a way of life but a dead end ... now that is really how one would acyually expect a LOVING God to bring the truth to those who will not listen ... a loving way , not the ways of punishment utilised by blind men in this earth and simply labelled human 'justice' [that cause very few to rehabilitate] ... think on it without recourse to traditions of men :-

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

As for Satan being an angel, he was indeed created a cherub , Lucifer, at the very throne of God, covering it , opposite Jesus who is at the right hand of God ... but the thing about cherubs is that the manifest as men and die mortal deaths , just as Jesus did :-

Ezek 28:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
11 ¶ Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


Ezek 10:8 ¶ And there appeared in the cherubims the form of a man’s hand under their wings.
9 And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone.
10 And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel.
11 When they went, they went upon their four sides; they turned not as they went, but to the place whither the head looked they followed it; they turned not as they went.
12 And their whole body, and their backs, and their hands, and their wings, and the wheels, were full of eyes round about, even the wheels that they four had.
13 As for the wheels, it was cried unto them in my hearing, O wheel.
14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.

- As for the redemption of all angels [which you seem to doubt somehow, how?] ... just consider how your own salvation rests on BELIEF IN JESUS AS LORD and note the following scripture which states unequivocably that ALL created beings come to accept Jesus as their true Lord , and thsu will be just as redeemed as you will be :-

Re 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;


[Thus I would suggest that you could perhaps consider not following traditions of men but base your beliefs on all scripture instead and prove all things in prayer to God for His truth by His spirit of truth... but then there would be nothing left to discuss here ,woud there ]

 

[stranger]

Satan isn't the man, but satan is in the man who is called the antichrist. Thus, he can't get saved and satan lost out when he was taken out of heaven. The prince is a real prince, not the devil. The Eden part isn't referencing to the prince. It was a comparision (the chapter) to how the prince is being like the devil. It's in no way stating that he is the devil.

There is no sense in saying " thou shallt be a man" to someone who has always been a man ,,,

rather Ezekiel's account [chap 28] identifies the covering cherub that was in the garden of Eden... this can only be the serpent Satan , not some earthly prince ... and says explicitly that he will be man and DIE a mortal death and go to hell [the pit] ... this also confirmed by Isaiah chapter 14 ...