• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Satan the cherub?

Status
Not open for further replies.

stranger

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
5,927
143
crying in the wilderness of life
✟7,026.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
There are but two covering cherubs ['cherubim' is the Hebrew plural] at the throne of God.... Satan is the left-hand one of them :-

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

the other is the 'Word' that became Jesus Christ and returned to the right hand position

What do we know then of the role of these cherubim which tells us about Satan ?

Interestingly there are four even though only two are covering the throne...

Jesus is covering the throne so that sinners may be hidden from the wrath of God , Satan however hides the throne in order that man may proclaim him to be their god and worship him, as almost all men awill according to Jesus [Rev 13 :3-4, Isaih 14, Ezek 28]

Ezekiel 10:14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.

Significant that both Jesus and Satan are cherubs and become manifested as men , both die mortal deaths , both have times as a lion , Satan as the antichrist, man of sin, son of perdition who comes to power astonishingly rapidly by going forth and conquering in the earth, Jesus somewhat later as King of kings over the priesthood of Israel [Ex 19:6, 1Pet 2:9-10] and both end up as spirit ['eagles'] through the same 'change' that man too must undergo at the end of redemption to perfection

1Cor 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Thus the main differences between Jesus and Satan are nly that Satan was created Lucifer, whereas Jesus came from the 'Word' that was God and so was not created.... and satan dies twice as a man , a second death for not accepting the truth of god when it is poured out on all flesh after the second resurrection [when he too is resurrected from his 'prison' in death in hell to tempt whatever men he can from folllowing God after God has revealed all truth to all men in the enw earth...

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Thus we see Jesus presenting the case for God and Satan presenting the case against God.... but Satan knows full well that his case will not stand in the end... thus we must understand that Satan is given his role by God... that Satan is simply fulfilling the need for God to delude most men in order that God knows about what God Himself cannot do , about evil...

this then why God created evil, and why he needed to create man to do evil, Satan to tempt mankind and a separate unniverse with time in it in which evil could be for a while , separate from God ...

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The complete failure of Satan to demonstrate ANY way in eternity besides that of God is therefore absolutely necessary ,hence we know that Satan , like a prodigal son, must be redeemed to God along with all men and angels , else God would have failed to prove love is the ONLY way of Life...

It brings a new insight into the two covering cherubs, that one presents the positive evidence for God and deals with the redemption of creation, whereas the other [identical ] cherub presents the defeating of the negative evidence against God , equally to God's glory in the end... the piar then are complementary although opposite in role and that is why they are represennted as the same in scripture...

Psalms 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

1 Kings 6:25 And the other cherub was ten cubits: both the cherubims were of one measure and one size.

20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
 

Macca

Veteran
Feb 25, 2004
1,550
68
79
Frankston North
✟24,640.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Liberals
stranger said:
There are but two covering cherubs ['cherubim' is the Hebrew plural] at the throne of God.... Satan is the left-hand one of them :-

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

the other is the 'Word' that became Jesus Christ and returned to the right hand position

What do we know then of the role of these cherubim which tells us about Satan ?

Interestingly there are four even though only two are covering the throne...

Jesus is covering the throne so that sinners may be hidden from the wrath of God , Satan however hides the throne in order that man may proclaim him to be their god and worship him, as almost all men awill according to Jesus [Rev 13 :3-4, Isaih 14, Ezek 28]

Ezekiel 10:14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.

Significant that both Jesus and Satan are cherubs and become manifested as men , both die mortal deaths , both have times as a lion , Satan as the antichrist, man of sin, son of perdition who comes to power astonishingly rapidly by going forth and conquering in the earth, Jesus somewhat later as King of kings over the priesthood of Israel [Ex 19:6, 1Pet 2:9-10] and both end up as spirit ['eagles'] through the same 'change' that man too must undergo at the end of redemption to perfection

1Cor 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Thus the main differences between Jesus and Satan are nly that Satan was created Lucifer, whereas Jesus came from the 'Word' that was God and so was not created.... and satan dies twice as a man , a second death for not accepting the truth of god when it is poured out on all flesh after the second resurrection [when he too is resurrected from his 'prison' in death in hell to tempt whatever men he can from folllowing God after God has revealed all truth to all men in the enw earth...

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Thus we see Jesus presenting the case for God and Satan presenting the case against God.... but Satan knows full well that his case will not stand in the end... thus we must understand that Satan is given his role by God... that Satan is simply fulfilling the need for God to delude most men in order that God knows about what God Himself cannot do , about evil...

this then why God created evil, and why he needed to create man to do evil, Satan to tempt mankind and a separate unniverse with time in it in which evil could be for a while , separate from God ...

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The complete failure of Satan to demonstrate ANY way in eternity besides that of God is therefore absolutely necessary ,hence we know that Satan , like a prodigal son, must be redeemed to God along with all men and angels , else God would have failed to prove love is the ONLY way of Life...

It brings a new insight into the two covering cherubs, that one presents the positive evidence for God and deals with the redemption of creation, whereas the other [identical ] cherub presents the defeating of the negative evidence against God , equally to God's glory in the end... the piar then are complementary although opposite in role and that is why they are represennted as the same in scripture...

Psalms 139:12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

1 Kings 6:25 And the other cherub was ten cubits: both the cherubims were of one measure and one size.

20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
Jesus was never a cherub! He was God before any cherub was created!

:preach:
 
Upvote 0
£

£amb

Guest
I was wondering if you could explain this paragraph alittle more...:)



The complete failure of Satan to demonstrate ANY way in eternity besides that of God is therefore absolutely necessary ,hence we know that Satan , like a prodigal son, must be redeemed to God along with all men and angels , else God would have failed to prove love is the ONLY way of Life...
 
Upvote 0

stranger

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
5,927
143
crying in the wilderness of life
✟7,026.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
Macca, you are right that Jesus was God 'before' any cherub was created , but as I pointed out the cherubs are not the same , Jesus was not created , but Satan was not, but that does not mean they are not the covering cherubs... just that one was craeted and one was not ... as indeed I pointed out originally ...

Simply look at where Jesus stands. at the right hand of God, the exact position of the righthand covering cherub... there is no-one else there, created r uncreted to be the right-hand covering cherub ...

equally look at the way to the garden in Genesis , it is guarded by cherubims :-

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Who is it that holds the only way to eternal life and has a sword coming out of his mouth... none other than Jesus Christ...

the scripture is really rather explicit , is it not, Jesus is the only one who can be the right-hand cherub covering the throne of God , and opposite him Satan . looking identucal to him, a prophetic symbol of Satn's role as the 'antichrsitos' ,the image of Christ in man's traditional religion that causes all the world to eventually worship an image of christ that they believe is god, but it is the dargon, Satan in place of christ [the literal meaning of the greek 'antichristos' is indeed 'in place of christ'] - see Rev 13:3-4 - all the world , bar the 144,000 of tribal Israel of Rev 7:3-8 worship the dragon, Satan as the god of men ... not because they think he is Satan, but because they think he is Christ their saviour and God... and it is Jesus himself who tells us this, why ignore it? And God explains too that He will delude most of mankind and why He does so in 2 Thess 2 :-

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
 
Upvote 0

nephilimiyr

I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open
Jan 21, 2003
23,433
1,799
62
Wausau Wisconsin
Visit site
✟55,552.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Stranger, Satan/Lucifer/Helel was a covering cherub. He did not stand on Gods left side while the Word stood on His right and the Word never covered the Father, He was with the Father. Jesus said He and the Father are one, Helel could never say that, all Satan can ever say is that he once covered Him.
 
Upvote 0

stranger

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
5,927
143
crying in the wilderness of life
✟7,026.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
The complete failure of Satan to demonstrate ANY way in eternity besides that of God is therefore absolutely necessary ,hence we know that Satan , like a prodigal son, must be redeemed to God along with all men and angels , else God would have failed to prove love is the ONLY way of Life...

Many claim that Satan and those who follow him , despite in scripture their being dead in hell [the place of the dead where the dead know not a thing (Solomon - Eccles 9:5)] and resurrected by God , dying yet a second death and being resurrected to the final trial of the lake of fire where there is no more death or hell (Revelation 20:14), they claim that these who enter the lake of fire for denying the spirit of truth will become eternal nevertheless, that despite meaningless torment and punishment by God they will never see the mercy of God or acknowldge Jesus and be redeemed...

but the scripture says that all creatures on earth and in heaven will acknowledge Jesus and that Gd is the saviour of all men... so there is one big misunderstanding of what the otriginal meaning f the wrds in scripture mean on one side or the other of this disagreement based on traditions of men... [and the misunderstanding is mainly because of a word 'aeionos' whose basic meaning is 'age-lasting' but which is also used to describe timeless things too ...

Thus men foolishly disagree rather than ask God for His truth on the matter... even the other scripture easily resolves the true implication of the word in each usage of it, but unfortunately that does not correspond with what is written in most translations [because most translations were shaped by traditions of men in the beliefs of the translators]

There are websites dealing step by step with the misunderstanding, but inevitably few who have misunderstood pay them any attention , so rather I look to God and see how the two 'interpretations' fit what He says... clearly endless punishment for anything is unjust , but it also denies the mercy of God and any reason that mercy should endure for ever [as scripture states over a hundred times!] ,but worst of all endless punishment with no chance of mercy is meaningless , inappropriate to say the least for a loving all-powerful God, and actually impossible [punishment is destructive and one cannot destroy something for ever , eventually it is destroyed, gone in finite time]

Equally how could Satan and his followers live forever by another means than following jesus if as Jesus said ,jhe is the ONLY way of eternal life... albeit an eternal life of punishment in some people's eyes, but a way of eternal life other tahn God's way of love through Jesus Christ, that would make Jesus a liar... clearly not true then... Satan and his followers all acknowledge Jesus in finite time and god shows them His mercy, redeeming them...

Again we know that Gd created space-time, ouruniverse, thus time is finite , we know from Physics that time was created alongside space and thus we also know that it will end when God eds this universe... but punishment cannot take place outside of time, there is no pain, punishment, destruction ,death, in the spirit.. God is timeless , not bound in finite time as we are.... thus there is not even any meaning to 'eternal punishment', it is not just a sad mistranslation, but a self-contradicting concept ...it cannot exist because ther is no such thing as infinite time, past or future, time is finite

Finally there is the point about God's very purpose in creating evil, this planet ,Satan to tempt man , and man to do the evil and sinning for a while [finite time] ... the only possible reason God would do that is to know anbout it [since he cannot do evil, cannot sin, cannot experience as we do]... then God's point is that evil does not work, that love is the only way, but if Satan and his fiollowers become eternal then God would be proved wrong... clearly that is not gonna happen and that fable that arose from mistranslation is wrong...

Thus we know from scripture and from God Himself by His spirit of truth that all men and eventually even Satan will be redeemed, that Satan , created Lucifer, perfect son of God, is indeed the prodigal son of God and all will rejoice at the final glory of God in bringing home His first created son [the 'Word' , that became Jesus was not created, but was God at the beginning of creation (John 1) , thus Jesus is the uncreated son of God]
 
Upvote 0
£

£amb

Guest
Thus we know from scripture and from God Himself by His spirit of truth that all men and eventually even Satan will be redeemed, that Satan , created Lucifer, perfect son of God, is indeed the prodigal son of God and all will rejoice at the final glory of God in bringing home His first created son [the 'Word' , that became Jesus was not created, but was God at the beginning of creation (John 1) , thus Jesus is the uncreated son of God



Are you saying that Satan will be redeemed and share heaven? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you're trying to say that satan will be "saved". If I am wrong, then I apologize, but if this is what you're saying...then can you provide scripture where it says that satan will be saved and not thrown in the lake of fire as said in Revelations.
 
Upvote 0

nephilimiyr

I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open
Jan 21, 2003
23,433
1,799
62
Wausau Wisconsin
Visit site
✟55,552.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
£amb said:
Are you saying that Satan will be redeemed and share heaven? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you're trying to say that satan will be "saved". If I am wrong, then I apologize, but if this is what you're saying...then can you provide scripture where it says that satan will be saved and not thrown in the lake of fire as said in Revelations.
Yep, I believe that is what he said. :sigh:
 
Upvote 0

James1979

Regular Member
Mar 3, 2004
557
16
✟794.00
Faith
Christian
Are you guys sure that this is speaking about Satan?

Look at:
Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

compare this with:

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Genesis 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Maybe this is referring to Adam. We know that Adam was without sin and was holy before God a certain amount of time which is part of God's image and likeness. Then later once inquity was found in Adam as he took the fruit from Eve, he was kicked out from the garden of Eden. And God sent the Cheribums to guard it so that Adam and Eve would not be able to eat from the tree of life.
 
Upvote 0

nephilimiyr

I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open
Jan 21, 2003
23,433
1,799
62
Wausau Wisconsin
Visit site
✟55,552.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Macca said:
Satan and all the angels are a host, and not elegible for salvation; whereas man is of a race and is elegible for salvation.
:preach:
Why are you telling me that? I didn't say it.
 
Upvote 0

stranger

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
5,927
143
crying in the wilderness of life
✟7,026.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
Satan and all the angels are a host, and not elegible for salvation; whereas man is of a race and is elegible for salvation.

On what do you base this statement ?

Satan is described as manifested as a mortal man who dies a mortal death in both Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 ... does that not qualify him for salvation in your terms anyway?

The scripture also says that all created beings will acknowledge Jesus as true Lord ...and that is all that is required for salvation :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

We have that Satan manifests as a mortal man, claims to be the god of men [Satan incarnate then, as another christ ,albeit a false one but most men do not see that at the time , the ultimate 'antchristos' , 'one in place of christ' ... and is shown that he is NOT god by being killed by men ["strangers"] and being trapped in death for a thousand years unable to resurrect himself ... humilaiting him for his blasphemy and allowing the kingdom of God to be established under the King of kings, Jesus, and his kings, the priesthood formed from the 144,000 God chose for that role from tribal Israel [e.g. Rev 7:3-8 , Exodus 19:6 , 1Peter 2:9-10 ]

Ezekiel 28:9 [God to Satan] Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

Why would God bother to resurrect Satan if not to redeem him as he has said he is saviour of all men?

e.g. 1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him [Satan] into the bottomless pit [hell, place of the dead] , and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

[albeit that Satan dies a second mortal death for not accepting the spirit of God when it is poured out on all flesh after the second resurrection, but then is resurrected to the lake of fire where there is no more death [or hell for that matter , since both are thrown into the lake of fire and end there]

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire...

So either Satan is immortalised as an adversary of God [and as some would claim is punished eternally in some physical way ... a physical impossibility of coyurse, but that's what people say they believe ... and then Jesus was wrong that he is the ONLY way to immortality!] OR Satan is indeed subject to the mercy of God that God has said endures for all tme [and what other purpose would it do that for when there is only the lake of fire in which it has nay role by that time?]
 
Upvote 0
Jan 12, 2004
49,784
860
✟54,471.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The antichrist isn't the devil manifested in flesh, but a fully human man, that gets possesed by the devil. God didn't resurrect the devil. If you're refering to the antichrist dieing then coming back to life, well that wasn't the devil, but the devil performing the resurrection of the man that he lived inside of. It's a show of his deceptive power to decieve many. Also, just because you admit that Jesus is God and Savior doesn't make you saved. You need to live the life. Also, the devil can't get saved since he's evil and was removed from heaven. Also, why would the Lord put His spirit into pure evil? The devil is pure evil and can't get saved and has no desire to get saved.
 
Upvote 0

stranger

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
5,927
143
crying in the wilderness of life
✟7,026.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
Satan does manifest as a fully human man, just as Jesus did, and Satan dies too, as I showed you the scripture states explicitly [Ezek 28, Isaiah 14]

Israel are rebellious and sinful and unrepentent and yet God just redeems them to be His priests... why not Satan too, he was created perfect and changed ... no reason that God cannot turn him back , just as He does with men...

and it is Satan who dies and is locked away indeath for a thousand yeeras, that is what the scripture actually says, your version is nowhere in scripture...
 
Upvote 0
Jan 12, 2004
49,784
860
✟54,471.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ezekial 28 was talking about the Prince of Tyre, not the antichrist. Also the correct term is incarnant, not manifest. Manifest implies that the person/thing is fully something else shown or illustrated in a different way. Incarnant show that it is something that is fully controled by something that enters it and does the will of the thing in it. Jesus was manifest, not incarnant, as the antichrist will be. God's not going to turn satan back into goodness. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that. That's just an assumpstion based on verses out of context and opinion.
 
Upvote 0

stranger

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
5,927
143
crying in the wilderness of life
✟7,026.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
The 'prince of Tyre' is identified as Satan the man in Ezekiel 28 , and just as mortal as Jesus was, he also is ubject to deth, so it is indeed a manifestation :-

Ezek 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
...
Ezek 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

So it is your somewhat wild assertions that scripture denies , I have gone no further than what is said...

The simple statement by Jesus that he is THE ONLY way to immortality makes the redemption of Satan and his followers sure from scripture , simply because they pass beyond death in the lake of fire and if they were not redeeemed then there would be another way to immortality for the unrighteous, making Jesus a liar... so Satan is indeed redeemed by the mercy of God after his trial/ordeal in the lake of fire

indeed why do you question this, scripture ? Satan was created , so you know that he is a creature , so whay do you not think this says that he will acknowledge Jesus and thus be saved ??? :-

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
 
Upvote 0
Jan 12, 2004
49,784
860
✟54,471.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The devil will acknowledge that Jesus is God, but that WILL NOT make him saved. If a person just says that Jesus is God and accepts it doesn't make him/ her saved. You must live the life and repent. The devil will never do those things.

The one scriptures have double meanings. They are in a way indirectly refering to the Prince of Tyre, and also the devil. The prince isn't the antichrist, he's just being compared to the devil.
 
Upvote 0
£

£amb

Guest
In Matthew 25:41 it says "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' Why is there an eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels? Do you believe there will be hell? Who do you think it was made for? If satan was to be given a second chance, why would there be a need of hell? In Revelation 20:10 it says "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown...." In the next verse it says "Then I saw a great white throne...." The reason I highlighted the word 'then' was because it shows that right after the devil is thrown into hell, the judgement starts. The judgement starts after satan is thrown out. No where does it show that satan will have a second chance of repenting. If your name is not in the book of life, then you'll be thrown into the lake of fire (which was prepared for the devil and his angels). Luke 12:48 tells us that one of the things God judges on is how much knowledge of Him a person possesses. The fallen angels, then, are even much more deserving of God's wrath because of the exceedingly great knowledge they had about God.
 
Upvote 0

stranger

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
5,927
143
crying in the wilderness of life
✟7,026.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
The devil will acknowledge that Jesus is God, but that WILL NOT make him saved. If a person just says that Jesus is God and accepts it doesn't make him/ her saved. You must live the life and repent. The devil will never do those things.

When the devil acknowledges Jesus as Lord then he will have to obey that Lord since Jesus will be ruling "with a rod of iron" then unlike today in this world :-

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Thus Satan will eventually 'repent and live the life' as you put it... if you can do it and it works then it also works for Satan the man...

The one scriptures have double meanings. They are in a way indirectly refering to the Prince of Tyre, and also the devil. The prince isn't the antichrist, he's just being compared to the devil.

I don't see how you think that the 'prince of Tyre' can have been in the garden East of Eden if he were not the devil, the serpent ???

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;
 
Upvote 0

stranger

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
5,927
143
crying in the wilderness of life
✟7,026.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Greens
In Matthew 25:41 it says "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Why is there an eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels?

The word translated as 'everlasting' is 'aionios' whose basic literal meaning 'age-lasting'
thus the 'fire' is not eternal , nor could there be any literal meaning to eternal fire since fire consumes itself and so ends eventually all by itself ... but 'fire' in the scripture is used to represent the trial of men as used for example by Jesus in this explanatory passage :-

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Thus the 'lake of fire' is just the final trial at the end of the age , God's final proof to all evil men that love is the only way in eternity .... else consider this, how could Satan find a way to get to be eternal and yet still defy God, it would prove that Jesus was wrong , that there was another way of eternal life except love... surely you don't actually believe that jesus was lying about that? ... so it is just a misunderstanding by the translator of scripture , one that has been discussed and corrected , but still exists in many bibles and misleads people into claiming that Jesus lied that he is the only way of eternal life :-

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html
Do you believe there will be hell?

Again study the scripture, not what men have come to say... the word 'hell' in scripture is translated from four different words with various meanings....

the commonest word for 'hell' is 'sheol' which is equally often translated as 'the grave' in scripture ... this is of course very inconsistent, perhaps the best meaning is to just call it 'the place of the dead' , but that does not tell us what it is like to be dead, what happens when one is dead [if anything] ... fortunately Solomon in scripture does explain to us that the dead know of nothing ... that fits with our experience of the dead ... there is no point in torturing the dead, they do not know anything about what is done to them when dead.... people do not know anything again until resuerrected :-

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing ...

Thus we have a deep misunderstanding in modern christianity, largely caused by the modern fictional work called 'Inferno' written by Dante, but it has no basis in scripture for its fiction , yet people believe it because it captured their imagination and they cannot be bothered to test its views against the scripture , traditions of men have gone far astray from the truth of Christ :-

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

So one needs to pray and listen to God and meditate on His scripture, not listen to men...

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

1 ¶ Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Who do you think it was made for?

'hell' is just the place for the dead , that is what it is for, dead [unknowing of anything that goes on] people

If satan was to be given a second chance, why would there be a need of hell?
Hell is for the dead, whether they are saints, Jesus, sinners ,or Satan ... it makes no difference , in scripture all go to hell when they die , but not to be tormeted ,cos' they know nothing in hell, [they cannot be tormented, the dead know of not a thing whilst in hell] , just a place to await resurrection back to life , no conciousness whatever of anything.

In Revelation 20:10 it says "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown...." In the next verse it says "Then I saw a great white throne...." The reason I highlighted the word 'then' was because it shows that right after the devil is thrown into hell, the judgement starts. The judgement starts after satan is thrown out. No where does it show that satan will have a second chance of repenting.

Satan is locked away in death in the place of the dead [hell] for a thousand years before he and all who also died in sin are resurrected , the second resurrection, then God pours his spirit out on all flesh as promised in scripture [He could not do it before then since many already died in sin even before jesus came , they do not live again until the second resurrection, so if God keeps His promise then all men, including the resurrected Satan will receive all truth by menas of the holy spirit of God then :-

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh...

If your name is not in the book of life, then you'll be thrown into the lake of fire (which was prepared for the devil and his angels). Luke 12:48 tells us that one of the things God judges on is how much knowledge of Him a person possesses. The fallen angels, then, are even much more deserving of God's wrath because of the exceedingly great knowledge they had about God.

the most evil will indeed still not accept Jesus even after God has given all knowledge to all by means of His spirit, and the evil will indeed die a second mortal death for their sin and be again not concious in death, but ressurected to the final trial, the 'lake of fire' , but then death and hell are destroyed in the lake of fire, there is no more death, no more any need for hell, a place for the dead :-

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Thus the evil have become immortal , they cannot die any more than twice ... and they cannot continue eternally except by Jesus' way of love either.... thus we know why God's mercy HAS to endure for all time , right up to the end when Satan repents because he sees all his followers leave him and follow Jesus' way BECAUSE of the final trial where the evil have only the evil to prey upon and so gain nothing by being evil ...

Satan simply cannot be allowed to defy God eternally , else there is another way of eternal life than through Jesus... and Jesus has said that he is the only way
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.