Satan,Devil and Evil ???

[TheGloryisHere]

Lucifer at that time was the King of Babylon. This happened before man was created, before Adam, before the recreation of the planet. I don't want to get into that; if you don't believe there was anything here before Adam, than this discussion won't work. I don't know how you believe on this. But, that's where the confusion lies, because Lucifer was the King of Babalon, and in our knowlege, only men were kings.

 

[Tamara224]

Lucifer is being addressed as a person according to the verse Mike and I have posted. So, yes, that was his name. Not while he was Satan though. As Satan that name was stripped from him. He loves that name and makes his followers call him that. Even satan knows that's his name. Even Satan himself says that's his name. In that, he is not lying. But... it's no longer his name. And in him continuing to say it's his name, he is wrong. The name Lucifer was stripped from him along with his anointing and he was kicked out of Heaven by Michael. His form was changed from the cherub which covers (he was never an arch angel; no idea why ppl say that) to the form of a dragon.

Okay, let me try to explain myself one more time.

Did you read the verse in any other translation beside the King James Version?

Did you note that it does not contain the word lucifer in some of the other translations?

Now, it uses the word 'Lucifer' as a proper noun (name) in the KJV... but in the Original Hebrew (from which the KJV is supposedly translated) the word heylel is used and it is not a proper noun and it was not the name of Satan.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

The King James Version is not the only version that is accurate. Amplified and New Living Translation is accurate too. The only reason why ppl think King James is the only version is because it was the first English version. I mean, think about it, Jesus did not speak in King James english. He didn't speak in english of any kind. The Jews have never spoke with thees and thous and art thou, wast thou, etc. So to think that is the only version God recognizes is arrogance. I do my searches in King James, mostly because I have a lot more of it memorize, because most male preachers preach out of King James. I preach out of Amp mostly. I also use New Living Translation and King James. On some scriptures King James sounds better or makes more sense so I will only use it. Like 1Peter 2:24 healed by the stripes of Jesus. Amp I think says healed by His wounds. Well, they are both accurate, but I have been standing on healed by the stripes of Jesus for so many years, why change to wounds, when the stripes one works for me every time. No sickness, or disease can touch me and stay on me for more than a few hours.

 

[PastorMike]

The word Heylel means light bearer, he was not the light he was just a carrier (bearer) of the light...

The words morning star are not in that verse, the literal translation is son of the dawn, not morning star... the dawn is not the light but a pale reflection of the light...

Where is Satan called a lion?

 

[TheGloryisHere]

The word Heylel means light bearer, he was not the light he was just a carrier (bearer) of the light...

The words morning star are not in that verse, the literal translation is son of the dawn, not morning star... the dawn is not the light but a pale reflection of the light...

Where is Satan called a lion?

You're right. Morning star is not in that verse. It says son of the morning.

Yes, Lucifer was a carrier of the Light, just as a believer is a carrior of the Light. But, only God is LIGHT, or THE LIGHT.

Who said satan was a lion? Satan comes ASSSSSS a roaring lion. He's a pretend lion; that's about it.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

Okay, let me try to explain myself one more time.

Did you read the verse in any other translation beside the King James Version?

Did you note that it does not contain the word lucifer in some of the other translations?

Now, it uses the word 'Lucifer' as a proper noun (name) in the KJV... but in the Original Hebrew (from which the KJV is supposedly translated) the word heylel is used and it is not a proper noun and it was not the name of Satan.

Yep, I read it in every translation I have, including Strongs and Websters Dictionary. Amp, NLT, MKJ, NKJV, Websters Bible also says O Lucifer. The others do not. I believe it should be O Lucifer, just from reading all the Bible over the last 32 years since I have been filled with the Spirit. You can't just read one passage of scripture and decide everything that has been taught is wrong. Revelation knowledge is needed to understand the meaning of the Bible. Us trying to figure things out with our intellect wont' get us very far. Our intellects alone will hit a brick wall.

 

[LavenderLeaves]

Satan was God's right hand man when it came to angel dictationship. Until God created man (us, human begins, people)...Satan became jealous and rebelled against Him. He envied that God made us a little lower than Jesus himself and higher than what Satan use to be.
That rebel is still there is get back at us.

Devil, is just anothet term for Satan. And Demons to referring as his angel gang.

Evil, isn't so much of a 'who' but rather an 'is'. Evil is the whole accumulation of a body of negative functions that exsist in our world today. Evil is formed because of sin, also deformities.

 

[Jaison]

I thank everybody who send their views. I was really astonished to see how you my friends studied on the transulation of the name Lucifer . Tamara, Mike, Glory made a good contribution from their studies.
But to say ,what I was concerened is not what the name Lucifer means but who is satan? If the angel in Heven was called Jesus by name and he is casted out of heaven to fall on earth, will his name change? Can we say then that our Jesus Christ is the same as the fallen one.? They are entirely different in their deeds eventhough their name the same.
So there is nothing serious about how we name one and call one. We have to judge one by their deeds. To say Satan is the father of lies and he is the murderer. But our Jesus Christ is just opposit. But both the name when transulated means Morning Star. Tamara said the meaning of the word Tamara is Palm Tree, but in Malayalam , our language the word means Lotus. See the difference. To conclude :
Satan is the head of all Bad, Devil is also the same one Satan and Evil the opposit of goodness , for it the Satan and Devil work for and work on.. Am I correct?

 

[PastorMike]

Jaison, I have more info, if you want to pm me i will send you the link... Mike.

 

[YP4JC]

Tamara, I commend you. You kind of got shish-kebobed here for trying to be as honest with the scriptures as you knew how. It is easy to be dogmatic, and it can be really difficult to break away from dogmatic beliefs. It is the responsibility of every student of scripture to strip away all preunderstandings and biases (as much as is possible) whenever they come to a text. The truth is that if someone from a non-Christian culture were asked to read that scripture for the first time and say who the passage was about, they would say "The king of Babylon," not "Satan," not even "a divine being in heaven." Does this mean that the more common interpretation that this refers to Satan is wrong? IDK.

I have wrestled with the same issue. It is a difficult one. Even the passage in Revelation 12 isn't exceptionally clear. Dogmatism says that the "war in heaven" occurred long ago. But this isn't the only interpretation. Some people think this war is yet to happen. Others believe that it occured when Jesus cried out "It is finished" on the cross. If it happened long ago, then who is the woman, and who is her child?? We usually say that the woman is the church. But then the part about war in heaven doesn't really work unless John is giving a kind of schizophrenic record of history, leaping millenia into the future, then millenia into the past without indicating that he is making such a jump.
Good on ya', Tamara. We need to be more committed to what the Word says than what we think it says.

 

[TheGloryisHere]

Satan was God's right hand man when it came to angel dictationship. Until God created man (us, human begins, people)...Satan became jealous and rebelled against Him. He envied that God made us a little lower than Jesus himself and higher than what Satan use to be.
That rebel is still there is get back at us.

Devil, is just anothet term for Satan. And Demons to referring as his angel gang.

Evil, isn't so much of a 'who' but rather an 'is'. Evil is the whole accumulation of a body of negative functions that exsist in our world today. Evil is formed because of sin, also deformities.

that sounds correct to me.

 

[Tamara224]

The word Heylel means light bearer, he was not the light he was just a carrier (bearer) of the light...

Both heylel and lucifer refer to the planet Venus. The third brightest object in the night sky, Venus has been known for thousands of years as the "morning star". It is known as the "light bringer" because it is a harbinger of dawn. Because of the planet's position in the solar system, it can only be seen low on the horizon three hours or less before sunrise or after sunset. Thus, when it appears in the morning it is the herald of dawn... the brightest object in the sky besides the moon, when it appears in the morning it signals that dawn is not far behind. Thus... it is called the day star, morning star, and "light bringer".

The Latin word 'lucifer' historical referred to the morning star (aka Venus). It meant the morning star at the time it was first used in the Vulgate and it meant it at the time the KJV was translated. There are a plethora of historical literary references in which people used the word 'lucifer' to describe the "morning star".

For instance, in the Vulgate (from which the KJV picked up the word) the word 'lucifer' is used several times, none of them referring to Satan (i.e. Job 11:17 & 38:32; Psalm 109(110):3; 2 Peter 1:19).

So, basically, the English versions that use the words "morning star" have done nothing more than translate "lucifer" from Latin into English.

We could just as easily translate the passage by using the word "Venus" (in order to refer to the 'morning star' by the most commonly used name for that celestial body in our modern usage). However, it would lead to confusion, because then people might think the passage was referring to the ancient mythological god. That's basically what using the word 'lucifer' was all about - it refers to that actual, physical star that appears in the sky in the morning.

Metaphorically and figuratively, Jesus (and others) have been compared to that star.

The words morning star are not in that verse, the literal translation is son of the dawn, not morning star... the dawn is not the light but a pale reflection of the light...

You are conflating two terms. 'Morning star' and 'son of the morning' are both in the passage.

heylel = lucifer = morning star or light bearer/bringer

ben shachar = son of the morning

Both terms (heylel and ben shachar) appear in the verse. Heylel's translation is not "son of the morning".

Where is Satan called a lion?

1 Peter 5:8


For a very in-depth study of this issue, I encourage everyone who is interested to check out this site:

http://www.kjv-only.com/isa14_12.html

 

[msbojingles]

and then their is always-->