Samaritan Torah

[visionary]

The law in order to be "living" must be activated by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Heber Book List]

The law in order to be "living" must be activated by the Holy Spirit.

Scripture to support that view?

 

[HARK!]

This is where you start your error - Yeshua is not speaking of 'living water' as such, he is speaking of Torah, using the well known metaphor of 'living water'. That teaching is consistent in both cases, and in context, as you would expect from him, not changing the intended meaning on either occasion.

Words have been added to the Temple account to make it read something else, which is why that verse is shown in parenthesis.

As the rest of your post depends on these errors in your reading of the relevant passages, in context, further debate is pointless.

I don't know what mistranslated version you are reading; but here is a pertinent excerpt, from a more comprehensive presentation of the Critical Text:


7:33 MT/ CT: said, – TR: said to them,

7:39 MT/ TR: Holy – CT: omits

7:40 MT/ TR: many from – CT: [some] from

Significant Textual Variants: John

As you can see, the Critical Text does not support your flawed understanding.

Debate? You haven't presented one (at least not with a logical argument.) You continue to present a potpourri of unsupported opinions, and logical fallacies.

Why do you insist on coming to this party empty handed? I view your continued lack of proof, to support your unfounded claims; as a result of either, a lack of intellectual honesty, or as an exposure of intellectual sloth.

Please don't respond to this post unless you can back up a rebuttal with a reliable source.

 

[Heber Book List]

I don't know what mistranslated version you are reading; but here is a pertinent excerpt, from a more comprehensive presentation of the Critical Text:


7:33 MT/ CT: said, – TR: said to them,

7:39 MT/ TR: Holy – CT: omits

7:40 MT/ TR: many from – CT: [some] from

Significant Textual Variants: John

As you can see, the Critical Text does not support your flawed understanding.

Debate? You haven't presented one (at least not with a logical argument.) You continue to present a potpourri of unsupported opinions, and logical fallacies.

Why do you insist on coming to this party empty handed? I view your continued lack of proof, to support your unfounded claims; as a result of either, a lack of intellectual honesty, or as an exposure of intellectual sloth.

Please don't respond to this post unless you can back up a rebuttal with a reliable source.

As your post depends on errors in your reading of the relevant passages, further debate is pointless, as I have already said. Please refrain from posting to me.

 

[HARK!]

As your post depends on errors in your reading of the relevant passages, further debate is pointless, as I have already said. Please refrain from posting to me.

Again you make an assertion without proof. I grow weary of this foolishness. If you want me to stop posting to you; then I expect reciprocity.

 

[HARK!]

1 Corinthians 12 CJB
13 For it was by one Spirit that we were all immersed into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, slaves or free; and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

 

[danny ski]

Yahshua was a great Rabbi. If I were you I would treat him as a valuable secondary source, after YHWH.

Matthew 22 CJB

23 That same day, some Tz'dukim came to him. They are the ones who say there is no such thing as resurrection, so they put to him a sh'eilah:
24 "Rabbi, Moshe said, `If a man dies childless, his brother must marry his widow and have children to preserve the man's family line.'
25 There were seven brothers. The first one married and then died; and since he had no children, he left his widow to his brother.
26 The same thing happened to the second brother, and the third, and finally to all seven.
27 After them all, the woman died.
28 Now in the Resurrection -- of the seven, whose wife will she be? For they all married her."
29 Yeshua answered them, "The reason you go astray is that you are ignorant both of the Tanakh and of the power of God.
30 For in the Resurrection, neither men nor women will marry; rather, they will be like angels in heaven.
31 And as for whether the dead are resurrected, haven't you read what God said to you,
32 `I am the God of Avraham, the God of Yitz'chak and the God of Ya`akov'? He is God not of the dead but of the living!"
33 When the crowds heard how he taught, they were astounded;
34 but when the P'rushim learned that he had silenced the Tz'dukim, they got together,
35 and one of them who was a Torah expert asked a sh'eilah to trap him:
36 "Rabbi, which of the mitzvot in the Torah is the most important?"
37 He told him, "`You are to love ADONAI your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.'
38 This is the greatest and most important mitzvah.
39 And a second is similar to it, `You are to love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 All of the Torah and the Prophets are dependent on these two mitzvot."
41 Then, turning to the assembled P'rushim, Yeshua put a sh'eilah to them:
42 "Tell me your view concerning the Messiah: whose son is he?" They said to him, "David's."
43 "Then how is it," he asked them, "that David, inspired by the Spirit, calls him `Lord,' when he says,
44 `ADONAI said to my Lord, "Sit here at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet"'?
45 If David thus calls him `Lord,' how is he his son?"
46 No one could think of anything to say in reply; and from that day on, no one dared put to him another sh'eilah.

BTW, Yahshua was not a Christian. He was Notzri.

Shabbat shalom

I guarantee that the conversation re."lord" never happened.

 

[HARK!]

I guarantee that the conversation re."lord" never happened.

Why should I accept your guarantee over the written testimony?

Before you answer, I'd like to see the terms of this guarantee, in writing.

I suspect that the guarantee that YHWH made with us, through Yahshua, is a better deal. I also suspect that YHYW is far less likely to go spiritually bankrupt; therefore I suspect that it's a more secure deal.

 

[visionary]

Scripture to support that view?

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

If it wasn't for the Holy Spirit, we would not find this "living" word.

 

[Heber Book List]

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

If it wasn't for the Holy Spirit, we would not find this "living" word.

The Living Word is the also the Creator of the world and has been making himself known to us ever since. The work of the Holy Spirit is to point us to the Living Word - which is Yeshua, that is why the Father sent the Spirit. It does not mean, or imply, that the Word cannot be heard or found except by the Holy Spirit or that the Spirit brings any special power to the Living Word.

It is the Living Word that is all powerful, sharper than a double edged sword - the Spirit keeps us tuned into that real Living Word in a world where so many words detract us from Yeshua, and he enables and strengthens our abilities to be used for G_d's purposes.

In your quote, Paul is explaining that we are no longer bound to the legalistic use of the law which provides only death - now the true Law of G_d brings us closer to G_d in our obedience, not driving us further away. It is the Spirit that points us to the pure Law, the true Living Word. Unrepented disobedience to that pure Law of G_d still brings death - repentance by us brings life, that is why the Spirit keeps pointing us to the pure Law, as given us in the Tanach, which Yeshua, the Living Word, upheld, correcting its mis-use.

 

[Meowzltov]

Says who? I find it interesting that a Catholic would present a bare assertion that the Samaritan Pentateuch, is invalid; when the Samaritan Pentateuch shares more commonalities with the Septuagint, than it does with the Jewish Masoretic Text. Are you saying, in your opinion, that the Jewish Masoretic Text has even less validity?

Please don't troll my threads with your opinions, as though your ipsi dixits are facts.

Trolling assumes my answers are not sincere. They are indeed sincere.

Are you not aware that Catholics and MJ's, like all Christians, accept th standard Torah as the only one that is the inspired word of God?

 

[Meowzltov]

It would be interesting to read, as you say

I may read it some day. But I won't base my theology on it.

 

[HARK!]

Trolling assumes my answers are not sincere. They are indeed sincere.

Are you not aware that Catholics and MJ's, like all Christians, accept th standard Torah as the only one that is the inspired word of God?

If you were sincere you wouldn't make assertions concerning that of which you have no knowledge of.

Introduction:
Although the "New Testament" contains the same twenty-seven books for almost all Christians, there are some major and important differences between the "Hebrew Bible" (HB) used by Jews and different versionS of the "Old Testament" (OT) used by various Christian churches and denominations:

Jewish and Christian Bibles: Comparative Chart

 

[HARK!]

I may read it some day. But I won't base my theology on it.

I'm looking forward to analyzing the critical text that comes forth from the variants in what appears to be a well preserved version.

 

[danny ski]

Why should I accept your guarantee over the written testimony?

Before you answer, I'd like to see the terms of this guarantee, in writing.

I suspect that the guarantee that YHWH made with us, through Yahshua, is a better deal. I also suspect that YHYW is far less likely to go spiritually bankrupt; therefore I suspect that it's a more secure deal.

Why? It's one of those "proofs" that sounds really good, if you're not Jewish. So, we're asked to accept that the people who studied Scriptures for living, who sung the Psalms daily in the Temple were not aware of the meaning of the text. How likely is that? And that's even without deconstructing the text of the Psalm for analysis.

 

[visionary]

The Living Word is the also the Creator of the world and has been making himself known to us ever since. The work of the Holy Spirit is to point us to the Living Word - which is Yeshua, that is why the Father sent the Spirit. It does not mean, or imply, that the Word cannot be heard or found except by the Holy Spirit or that the Spirit brings any special power to the Living Word.

It is the Living Word that is all powerful, sharper than a double edged sword - the Spirit keeps us tuned into that real Living Word in a world where so many words detract us from Yeshua, and he enables and strengthens our abilities to be used for G_d's purposes.

In your quote, Paul is explaining that we are no longer bound to the legalistic use of the law which provides only death - now the true Law of G_d brings us closer to G_d in our obedience, not driving us further away. It is the Spirit that points us to the pure Law, the true Living Word. Unrepented disobedience to that pure Law of G_d still brings death - repentance by us brings life, that is why the Spirit keeps pointing us to the pure Law, as given us in the Tanach, which Yeshua, the Living Word, upheld, correcting its mis-use.

This is where I disagree.. it does not mean, or imply, that the Word cannot be heard or found except by the Holy Spirit or that the Spirit brings any special power to the Living Word... because to me it does... without the Holy Spirit, the letter is dead, the law is dead, and the ultimately the truth is dead.

 

[HARK!]

So, we're asked to accept that the people who studied Scriptures for living, who sung the Psalms daily in the Temple were not aware of the meaning of the text. How likely is that?

Do you mean the Tz'dukim? After all they did have the highest social status. They also rejected the oral law. Yahshua pointed out numerous flaws in the doctrine of the Tz'dukim and the P'rushim; and even they rejected the doctrine of each other. Your argument has already crumbled; but if throw the Isiyim into the mix, you'll have a difficult time even sorting through the pieces.

This verse was written when many, if not most, of these guys were still alive. Perhaps you can explain why it wasn't refuted.

Perhaps you can find the answer in the Talmud, even if it was written ex post facto. While we're on the subject, do you really expect me to believe that Israel, having gone into Babylonian captivity, completely forgot that the written Torah even existed; but they miraculously remembered the oral torah, word for word, inerrant, as if it had come from the mouth of Moshe himself? Really?

If I was on a sinking ship, to be stranded on a desert island, for probably the rest of my life; and I had to make a quick choice of whether to take either the Talmud, or the Samaritan Torah. I would snatch the Samaritan Torah without a second thought.

 

[danny ski]

Do you mean the Tz'dukim? After all they did have the highest social status. They also rejected the oral law. Yahshua pointed out numerous flaws in the doctrine of the Tz'dukim and the P'rushim; and even they rejected the doctrine of each other. Your argument has already crumbled; but if throw the Isiyim into the mix, you'll have a difficult time even sorting through the pieces.

This verse was written when many, if not most, of these guys were still alive. Perhaps you can explain why it wasn't refuted.

Perhaps you can find the answer in the Talmud, even if it was written ex post facto. While we're on the subject, do you really expect me to believe that Israel, having gone into Babylonian captivity, completely forgot that the written Torah even existed; but they miraculously remembered the oral torah, word for word, inerrant, as if it had come from the mouth of Moshe himself? Really?

If I was on a sinking ship, to be stranded on a desert island, for probably the rest of my life; and I had to make a quick choice of whether to take either the Talmud, or the Samaritan Torah. I would snatch the Samaritan Torah without a second thought.

You speak on the subject you have no knowledge, use a name that does not exist and never existed. In those circumstances, what difference does it make what I say? They did not respond because the conversation never happened. If you knew anything about Jews or Judaism (the people here believe they are part of it), you'd know why.

 

[Heber Book List]

This is where I disagree.. it does not mean, or imply, that the Word cannot be heard or found except by the Holy Spirit or that the Spirit brings any special power to the Living Word... because to me it does... without the Holy Spirit, the letter is dead, the law is dead, and the ultimately the truth is dead.

The Spirit enables us to do what G_d wants us to do, he doesn't do it FOR us. The Spirit points us to The Word and strengthens our faith and ability, as he enables us to do what it says, just as he has been doing since the beginning (Hebrews 11); He brings life to dead words and dead souls, enabling us to live by faith. If everything G_d wanted done was done BY the Spirit himself, why do we need to have the Spirit - he may as well just get on with it on his own? The Spirit is given to believers in Yeshua, not to un-believers, as we see in Acts.

 

[Meowzltov]

If you were sincere you wouldn't make assertions concerning that of which you have no knowledge of.

Introduction:
Although the "New Testament" contains the same twenty-seven books for almost all Christians, there are some major and important differences between the "Hebrew Bible" (HB) used by Jews and different versionS of the "Old Testament" (OT) used by various Christian churches and denominations:

Jewish and Christian Bibles: Comparative Chart

Apparently you don't know the definition of sincere or you wouldn't have made that statement. You are falsely accusing me.

Listen carefully. Messianics, Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Methodists, and all the rest, accept the same TORAH as the Jews to be the inspired word of God, no other.