Salvation

[PamC]

Do you believe you are saved by God saving you first before you can believe, or vic versa?

 

[Adventtruth]

Do you believe you are saved by God saving you first before you can believe, or vic versa?

Salvation has a foundation of righteousness. You must eccept this foundation before you can be saved.

Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Adventtruth

 

[ghs1994]

Do you believe you are saved by God saving you first before you can believe, or vic versa?

The bible says we are incapable of saving ourselves (John 14:6 Romans 3:10,23)

God knew us before we had ever taken human form (Jeremiah 1:5 Psalms 139:13-16)

I believe it is only a matter of time before those who have been chosen will come to hear the Word of God and so believe (Romans 10:9,17)

Jesus also told his disciples that they did not choose Him, but He chose them; including the one who would betray Him.

 

[Adventtruth]

The bible says we are incapable of saving ourselves (John 14:6 Romans 3:10,23)

God knew us before we had ever taken human form (Jeremiah 1:5 Psalms 139:13-16)

I believe it is only a matter of time before those who have been chosen will come to hear the Word of God and so believe (Romans 10:9,17)

Jesus also told his disciples that they did not choose Him, but He chose them; including the one who would betray Him.

So are you saying that we are saved before we have faith?

Adventtruth

 

[ghs1994]

So are you saying that we are saved before we have faith?

Adventtruth

Without His call, we are unable to believe (John 14:6).

We stand condemned unless we believe (John 3:18).

Will all be saved? No.

Those who have never heard the Gospel message will not be saved because they or their ancestors sometime down the line rejected the God of Israel for some other god (Romans 1:18-32).

Faith comes by hearing of the Word (Romans 10:17).

By grace you have been saved thru faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Whether or not faith comes first or next, it doesn't matter. It is a miracle of God and by His mercy and grace that any of us should have opportunity to become saved and share in His glory with Him.

 

[CrimsonTideChristian]

adventtruth is talking about a thing called predestination. It isn't really saying that this person will go to heaven, and this one won't. It simply suggest the fact that God knows what will happen to us in the end. This by no means suggest that you live a life how you want to live it because your life was predetermined. It was not predetermined, God wants all of his children to come to him, it's just he knows which ones will and which won't.

 

[ghs1994]

adventtruth is talking about a thing called predestination. It isn't really saying that this person will go to heaven, and this one won't. It simply suggest the fact that God knows what will happen to us in the end. This by no means suggest that you live a life how you want to live it because your life was predetermined. It was not predetermined, God wants all of his children to come to him, it's just he knows which ones will and which won't.

There is such a thing as predestination - Romans 8 teaches us that. However, it deals with the predetermined plan of God that whoever becomes saved will be molded to the likeness of Christ. It was the plan, not the person, that was predestined.

But also, there are those who had been predestined, those we read about in scripture, whether it was for good or evil, God brought about His plans thru human participation. In the end, I believe we will find out just how Sovereign our God really is. In His power and intellect.

 

[Ben johnson]

We are saved by grace, through faith; we come to God by faith (Heb11:6), He doesn't gift us the faith to come.

He justifies those who believe (Rom3:28), not vice-versa. His righteousness is revealed from beginning faith to ending faith (Rom1:17 --- you gotta look at the Greek). This reflects "he who endures to the end will be saved".

The only verse thought to affirm "gifted faith", is Eph2:8; it doesn't. Subject is "that salvation", and all five phrases (by faith included) point to the one subject.

In Rom8, those who love God, are predestined to Christlikeness. Eph1:4-5 says "we were predestined to adoption according to His will" (which was bestowed on us in the Beloved [Jesus!]), and His will is shown in Jn6:40, that "all who see and believe, may be saved". Jesus was "foreknown before time, but has appeared now for believers" (1Pet1:20-21), and we were "chosen from the beginning through sanctification and through faith". Our faith --- see 1Pet1:9.

Gosh, Pam --- how can you ask such a short question, and me give such a wordy answer???

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

So are you saying that we are saved before we have faith?

I certainly wouldn't say that. I certainly think that having faith that Jesus of Nazareth is our Savior and Lord is what saves us. However, as Paul says, so no can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit. So I believe that God must graciously first give the ability to have faith to a person before they can, well, have faith.

And if we take sin seriously and its bondage of our will, can we really say that a person can choose God lest he first justify and regenerate them?

 

[Hismessenger]

The bible says while we were yet sinners. Salvation is to be saved from the wrath of God and it is a free gift given to all who will hear and understand it's majesty. Abraham didn't ask to be saved, God chose him, why, because it was His plan of which Jesus is the central character before the creation was manifested. The creation is all about Jesus who brought us salvation with His blood. Not our choice. The chicken came before the egg.

Hismssenger

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

We are saved by grace, through faith; we come to God by faith (Heb11:6), He doesn't gift us the faith to come.

Sorry but I beg to differ. Yes, He DOES!!

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. (NIV)
[bible]Ephesians 2:8-9[/bible]
(KJV)

Eph. 2:8-9 clearly points out that even the faith is NOT from ourselves, but is the GIFT of God. It does NOT come through 'works' (our own efforts). We have NOTHING to boast of in our salvation -- NOTHING. Even the faith we need to take hold of the grace of God is, itself, a gift from God!!

Thus God, who provided us so great and marvellous and complete a salvation, who pours out His merciful grace to us, the undeserving, ALSO supplies us with the faith needed to make use of any of it. It is God's work from start to finish, 100%, NO credit to man, NO credit to self. Hallelujah!!!

 

[Hismessenger]

In short, yes, those whom God has chosen will accept the call and obey the voice of God. It is God's will not our choice.

Hismessenger

 

[Ben johnson]

Eph. 2:8-9 clearly points out that even the faith is NOT from ourselves, but is the GIFT of God. It does NOT come through 'works' (our own efforts). We have NOTHING to boast of in our salvation -- NOTHING. Even the faith we need to take hold of the grace of God is, itself, a gift from God!!

Hi, Moriah. Have you ever read A.T.Robertson's treatise on this passage? The genders of "faith" and "that", conflict; Greek grammar connects genders for words that reflect the same subject. Further, "through faith" is a prepositional phrase (as is "by grace"), which cannot be elevated to any kind of subject. The passage uses a compound subject, which is the entire opening phrase: "By grace through faith have you been saved".

NASV footnotes "that", with "THAT SALVATION". So --- there is one subject, five modifiers:
1. (that salvation) by grace
2. (that salvation) through faith
3. (that salvation) not of yourselves
4. (that salvation) gift of God
5. (that salvation) not of works lest anyone boast

Peter says, "Receive as the outcome of YOUR FAITH the salvation of your souls". 1:1:9 Whose faith, Moriah?

Thus God, who provided us so great and marvellous and complete a salvation, who pours out His merciful grace to us, the undeserving, ALSO supplies us with the faith needed to make use of any of it. It is God's work from start to finish, 100%, NO credit to man, NO credit to self. Hallelujah!!!

There also is no "credit" for those who choose to believe. It is all of Him, and none of us; but it is received if we want, and spurned if we want.

If salvation is all of GOD'S decision, then why would He have a judgment at all?

"...in the revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each one the consequences of his deeds; to those who BY perseverance in doing good SEEK for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who do NOT obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation". Rom2:6-8

Salvation is us hearing His Gospel, and ACTING upon it. See the difference between "he who acts, and he who does NOT act", Matt7:24-27...

 

[armothe]

Why is this in Hamartiology?

 

[coons786c]

Salvation is Being delivered from eternal seperation from God. If we have faith then we must act on what we believe. Repent, be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye will recieve the Gift of the Holy Ghost Acts2:38. This is salvation. This is truth and life.

 

[Ben johnson]

Hi, Corvet --- welcome to the boards! Hope and pray you'll be blessed and grow here.

A question from curiosity --- not meant to be critical or bad in any way; what are your thoughts on Jn17:3?

God bless!

 

[coons786c]

Jesus was praying to the father and stating that he, or the son was eternal life.Praying that the apostles might know him and his power. He is the only salvation. For he left the message with the apostles. To preach to all the world.

 

[ladybugforJesus]

I'm kinda surprised no one has mentioned John 3:16 yet. I think it is one of the most basic and straight forward ones there is that tell you how your salvation comes about.

'For God so loved the world, that He gave his only-begotten son, that whosoever should believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.'

God loved his creation enough to sacrifice His only Son's life to pay the way for our salvation. And if you choose to believe in Him, to have faith in him, as the way to salvation, you will be saved, and have eternal life.

So, I think belief has to come before salvation. The salvation is already there, but you can't have it until you believe.

 

[coons786c]

Believing is associated with ST John 7:38-39.

 

[Hismessenger]

The word says that Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. In other words, He instills us with our faith and then gives us the ability to work that faith for faith is an action word when you understand it's purpose.

Hismessenger