Salvation is an Experience

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

Perfection is the love of God.

It cant be imperfect in us, God cant be imperfect in us.

That is how we know He dwells in us, when we dwell in His love, that is perfect, as He is, and is in us.

Otherwise we would not know God dwells in us, when we do hatred, and wickedness, but we know the devil is in them instead.

fhansen · Jul 31, 2022

servant7777 said:
It is not me, but your doctrinal belief that thinks we see darkly now.

My doctrinal beliefs are based on scripture and experience. Seeing God clearly, face to face, is not the norm and not necessary for a believer. It's a gift given according to God's wisdom and at his discretion for His purposes. If you've had it you know it and can never deny it. These are incomparably profound experiences that cause legs to buckle; one cannot remain standing. You're speaking of what most people know, inspirational and intellectual concepts gleaned from a book. But God and the knowledge of Him are not confined to a book, any Book.

servant7777 said:
And for those who put darkness for light:

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Very true statement, and a verse I use frequently. It doesn't apply in our conversation here, however

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
My doctrinal beliefs are based on scripture and experience. Seeing God clearly, face to face, is not the norm and not necessary for a believer. It's a gift given according to God's wisdom and at his discretion for His purposes. If you've had it you know it and can never deny it. These are incomparably profound experiences that cause legs to buckle; one cannot remain standing. You're speaking of what most people know, inspirational and intellectual concepts gleaned from a book. But God and the knowledge of Him are not confined to a book, any Book.

Very true statement, and a verse I use frequently. It doesn't apply in our conversation here, however

We are changed into the same image from glory to glory now.

We see as in a mirror darkly, but when the day star arises in our hearts the light shines in that darkness.

It is all by belief, through hearing and believing those testimonies of Christ giving us that light.

Life and immortality is brought to light through the Gospel.

God commanded all men to repent, so all can do. ( no point saying it is exclusive when that denies Christ being given to die for the world.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

It is necessary for all those who repent from the darkness of satan, to see God in the face/light of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

fhansen · Jul 31, 2022

servant7777 said:
Perfection is the love of God.

It cant be imperfect in us, God cant be imperfect in us.

That is how we know He dwells in us, when we dwell in His love, that is perfect, as He is, and is in us.

Otherwise we would not know God dwells in us, when we do hatred, and wickedness, but we know the devil is in them instead.

nonsense, we are either perfected in love or we are not. And it doesn't happen all at once

fhansen · Jul 31, 2022

servant7777 said:
Stay in your beliefs then, but who will agree to you on the forum, that we see darkly, and not that the day star arises in our hearts, in the dark place, so we no longer see darkly, now we see through the glass, not darkly but through it ( clearly)

I doubt that most Christians take that passage to mean that we see clearly now, we're not in darkness but we see dimly compared to how we will see. And if one has any concept of the beatific vission, they know that what we now see and understand now is nothing compared to what we will see and understand.. most people get it, that our knowledge is partial now

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
nonsense, we are either perfected in love or we are not. And it doesn't happen all at once

All at once is when we love another, then all is fulfilled ( perfected)

( all you ever do is deny the scriptures and give your own words o denial), which means little

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

You already claim we are not changed into the image of God from glory to glory in this life, and that we do not see God yet.

That is to see darkly ( which you have shown you see that way) and yet we ABIDE IN THE LIGHT, and by abiding in the light we never stumble in love, as it is Gods love and Gods light we are in ( His love perfected in us)

1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
I doubt that most Christians take that passage to mean that we see clearly now, we're not in darkness but we see dimly compared to how we will see. And if one has any concept of the beatific vission, they know that what we now see and understand now is nothing compared to what we will see and understand.. most people get it, that our knowledge is partial now

To see without in darkness/darkly, we put on Christ ( bond of perfectness) who is light, its not difficult for all to understand, but it is difficult for them o deny it.

To put away the understanding of a child is to have Christ in us, light in us which takes the seeing darkly away ( understanding darkened)

Ephesians 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
I doubt that most Christians take that passage to mean that we see clearly now, we're not in darkness but we see dimly compared to how we will see.

Also when we take other verses, we cant see darkly any longer, we see through the glass clearly..

The seeing darkly vail is DONE AWAY IN CHRIST..

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
I doubt that most Christians take that passage to mean that we see clearly now, we're not in darkness but we see dimly compared to how we will see.

All your words show to all is that you do not believe any of these testimonies I am showing.

When that which is [perfect is come, and we read to see, Christ being come an High Priest by a greater perfect tabernacle.

This is what you are mocking and denying, BUT YOU CANT..

1 Corinthians 13: 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

You need to be stopped, and if the forum wont stop you, Christians wont report you, then God may do it Himself, when He is ready.

fhansen · Jul 31, 2022

servant7777 said:
You need to be stopped, and if the forum wont stop you, Christians wont report you, then God may do it Himself, when He is ready.

Yeah, maybe He'll strike me dead for your sake. LOL. Pray hard...

fhansen · Jul 31, 2022

servant7777 said:
All your words show to all is that you do not believe any of these testimonies I am showing.

No, you just interpreted the words.

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
My doctrinal beliefs are based on scripture and experience. Seeing God clearly, face to face, is not the norm and not necessary for a believer. It's a gift given according to God's wisdom and at his discretion for His purposes. If you've had it you know it and can never deny it. These are incomparably profound experiences that cause legs to buckle; one cannot remain standing. You're speaking of what most people know, inspirational and intellectual concepts gleaned from a book.

Sure, you had experience of seeing that light.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
No, you just interpreted the words.

And you ignored both the words and interpretation.

( although you cant show me to have interpreted anything, as I repeated the words as they were told.)

We cant see darkly and be in the light ( nonsense)

We see God in the person and face of Jesus Christ ( who is in us)

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
No, you just interpreted the words.

What is perfect came, and what was in part was done away ( the vail is done away in Christ)

1 Corinthians 13: 10 But WHEN THAT WHICH IS PERFECT IS COME then that which is IN PART SHALL BE DONE AWAY.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: NOW I KNOW IN PART; but THEN SHALL I KNOWN even as also I am known.

Hebrews 9:11 But CHRIST BEING COME an high priest of good things to come, BY A GREATER MORE PERFECT TABERNACLE not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which VAIL IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST.

1 John 4:3 And EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSESTH NOT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH IS NOT OF GOD: and THIS IS THE SPIRIT OF THE ANTICHRIST, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 Corinthians 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

fhansen · Jul 31, 2022

servant7777 said:
Sure, you had experience of seeing that light.

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Alright, so now you're putting light for darkness-just because no one supports your distorted theology. Great, bravo. Reminds me of children in the markets:
"We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented." Matt 11:17

Sorry, I dance to God's tune, not man's, not your's.

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
Alright, so now you're putting light for darkness-just because no one supports your distorted theology. Great, bravo. Reminds me of children in the markets:
"We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented." Matt 11:17

Sorry, I dance to God's tune, not man's, not your's.

Yes it is easy to claim we have seen the light of God personally, and not so easy to be reminded that satan came an an angel of light, and his ministers as ministers of righteousness, and how the antichrist spirit denies Christ came in the flesh, has come with a perfect tabernacle, and that which was in part was done away ( the vail of darkness done away in Christ) and that which is perfect came ( but we know who denies that)

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

So again, we see darkly when we are seeing in part ( in the darkness that the blindness of the vail causes for Israel) but that vail of darkness is done away in Christ.

That is that which is perfect has come, to take away seeing darkly, the perfect tabernacle has come, and the antichrist spirit denies Christ came in the flesh, to take us away from the darkness of satan to the light of Christ.

fhansen · Jul 31, 2022

servant7777 said:
Yes it is easy to claim we have seen the light of God personally, and not so easy to be reminded that satan came an an angel of light, and his ministers as ministers of righteousness,

Yes! so consider that seriously for yourself! But the real point is, as 1 Cor 13 states, when understood correctly, you just don't yet know now as you will then. So get over yourself. God has way more in store for you than you can even begin to imagine.

servant7777 · Jul 31, 2022

fhansen said:
Yes! so consider that seriously for yourself! But the real point is, as 1 Cor 13 states, when understood correctly, you just don't yet know now as you will then. So get over yourself. God has way more in store for you than you can even begin to imagine.

Relevant for your words of your "experiences causing your knees to buckle.

I wonder how many did that when satan visited them as an angel of light

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

That which is perfect came, antichrist spirit deceiver denies it

1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Salvation is an Experience

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