Salvation by Grace?

[solarwave]

Hey,

So how is someone saved?

By faith or by grace will be the normal answers, but what does that mean?

By works?

Belief? Belief in what.... Jesus; what about Jesus must be believed to be saved?

Faith in Jesus? Does that mean trusting Him to save you?

If that is all true how were people in the Old Testament saved?

The condition of your heart?


Solarwave

 

[solarwave]

bump

 

[Rhayven]

What about being chosen by God? Are we destined to go to heaven or hell?

 

[solarwave]

Rhayven (I have no idea how you say that): That is possible but I dislike that idea. What do you think?

 

[cathiepops]

Hey,

So how is someone saved?

By faith or by grace will be the normal answers, but what does that mean?

By works?

Belief? Belief in what.... Jesus; what about Jesus must be believed to be saved?

Faith in Jesus? Does that mean trusting Him to save you?

If that is all true how were people in the Old Testament saved?

The condition of your heart?


Solarwave

Personally, (I'm not a theologist!), but I believe that, in order to be 'saved', that is, saved from your past life of sin, you have to accept that Jesus Christ, son of God, died on a cross so that we might be restored to a right relationship with God. God hates sin, and before Jesus, we were all sinners and therefore couldn't come to God. Jesus took all of our sins so that we might be able to see God.

 

[solarwave]

Were any people who lived before Jesus saved then?

 

[takamine08]

We hate the fact that we don't have to "do" anything to obtain salvation. All we have to do is accept it. Christianity has never been about what we do for God, but what He does for us and for Himself. Jesus already paid the price for salvation when He died His terrible death. He loves us so much; how do you think He would feel to know that we don't believe what He did for us is enough? He'd be hurt. We just have to accept that it's all said and done. Accept the free gift of God! "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

 

[solarwave]

Hey takamine

So what exactly is it you have to accept to be saved?

 

[HarborOrange]

Hey,

So how is someone saved?

By faith or by grace will be the normal answers, but what does that mean?

By works?

Belief? Belief in what.... Jesus; what about Jesus must be believed to be saved?

Faith in Jesus? Does that mean trusting Him to save you?

If that is all true how were people in the Old Testament saved?

The condition of your heart?


Solarwave

Saved by grace, yes... But, that doesn't give you the right to just go out and freely sin like many so-called 'Christians' believe. It seems like many mainstream Christians feel like YHWH's grace and mercy gives them a free pass to sin as much as they want with no repercussions.

Grace is the love that YHWH showed us when he sent his one and only son, Yeshua the Messiah to die for us. So that we may be saved.

And, for the people in the Old Testament. They were saved by sacrifice. You see, Yeshua was, and is, the ultimate sacrifice for us... But, they didn't have him back in the Old Testament, so they believed in the prophecy of his coming, and were cleansed of sin by blood sacrifice.

But, if you think about it, YHWH doesn't exist in time, he's outside of that realm. So, in my mind, Yeshua dies for me, every single time I sin...

 

[solarwave]

Thanks for the reply HarborOrange

I think I agree with everything except the third paragraph. I may be wrong but Hebrews 10 seems to say that blood sacrifice doesn't take away sin:

"But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." - Hewbrews 10: 3-4

I think it is as it says. The offerings in the Old Testament were only a reminder of sin and symbol of the Christ to come. The sacrifices on their own would save no one were it not for Christ. As you say God is timeless and therefore the sacrifice of Christ can be applied to past, present and future. I don't know where is says it but I believe the Bible says Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world.

Anyway that doesn't answer my main question, what is it that applies Christs sacrifice to us? What is it that makes us different from those no saved? What makes us and those who were saved before Jesus (not knowing Him) the same?

Also an interesting question.... was it possible for those who lived no where near Israel before Christ to be saved?

 

[takamine08]

Hey takamine

So what exactly is it you have to accept to be saved?

Just the fact that Jesus already died asnd paid the entire bill for you to be saved. Hope this helps, God bless!

 

[solarwave]

Just the fact that Jesus already died asnd paid the entire bill for you to be saved. Hope this helps, God bless!

So everyone who ever existed is saved because Jesus died for all?

 

[takamine08]

So everyone who ever existed is saved because Jesus died for all?

No. They have to believe it first. Then they are saved. God's not gonna force it on you if you don't want it. Yeah, it's free, but you have to accept it, to ask God for it, and He'll give it to you.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

its through both. It is by Grace that you may have Faith.

 

[solarwave]

No. They have to believe it first. Then they are saved. God's not gonna force it on you if you don't want it. Yeah, it's free, but you have to accept it, to ask God for it, and He'll give it to you.

So what is it exactly they have to believe?

 

[takamine08]

So what is it exactly they have to believe?

That Jesus died for their sins and is willing to save them.

 

[avra34v2]

Everyone in all of time has always been saved by faith in Christ, by whatever measure of revelation of Him God had given them. I am NOT saying one is saved by w/out faith of Christ! What I mean is this. The first prophecy about Christ was Gen. 3:15. God told Eve that her offspring would one day destroy the work of Satan. She believed that this would be Cain, so she named him 'I got Him.' (Cain)

Romans 4 is also VERY clear that Abraham was saved by faith. Abraham believed
-God was who He said He was
-God's promise to make Him a Father of many nations
-That through his future seed (singular) all nations would be blessed through Him


Even in the OT people were still always saved by faith. Hebrews is clear that their sacrifices did not save them, but that their sacrifices pointed forwards to Christ and gave them a symbolic picture of how exactly God would destroy the work of the serpent (by a substitionary atonement sacrifice).

 

[Francess]

We hate the fact that we don't have to "do" anything to obtain salvation. All we have to do is accept it. Christianity has never been about what we do for God, but what He does for us and for Himself. Jesus already paid the price for salvation when He died His terrible death. He loves us so much; how do you think He would feel to know that we don't believe what He did for us is enough? He'd be hurt. We just have to accept that it's all said and done. Accept the free gift of God! "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23

Yes I agree. And good works and your new persona will act as a testimony for the transformation Jesus gave you.

 

[The Fire Rises]

Thank you for posting this question, it has been one that I've struggled with for quite some time now. Unfortunately, after reading most of the replies I still dont think I quite understand this topic.

What I DO understand is this: that good works alone cannot get you to Heaven. By this I mean, say we have a man who is very helpful to his community, helps people in loving ways and is just an all-around great guy. He can do all these good deeds (which dont get me wrong, are great) but if he doesnt believe in Jesus then it's all for nothing. He will go to Hell. (The scary thing is I know some people who I beleve are like this) (and by the way if Im interpreting this wrong at any point just let me know please, dont be afraid to give out a little constructive criticism)

Now, I do not remember where I heard this quote or who said it but this quote has stuck with me ever since I heard it.

"If you don't live it, you don't believe it."

My church's new pastor echoed this in a recent sermon (if you want, you can watch his sermons online - I'll provide a link). In a nutshell he said this:

"Some of the people in this room are not Christians. You may have head-knowledge about who Jesus is and what he did for you. You may have said the "Jesus Prayer" when you were 7 years old or had some emotional experience at bible camp last summer. But if you dont see your faith reflected in the way you live, you're going to Hell. You're just flat out going to Hell. It's not enough to just be a good person."

I paraphrased a couple sentences here and there but that's essentially what he said during the sermon. Do you guys agree with this statement, because I'm reading some comments saying how we dont have to "do" anything besides accept the gift Jesus offers us. Yes, we must do this. But I believe that is just the beginning not the end.

If we dont live for God, how can we say our Faith is real? The Bible talks about this as well.

James 2:26 - "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead" (NIV)

We cannot just say the "Jesus Prayer" and then live our lives the same way we did before. As my pastor often says, we must "radically change" the way we live our lives.

Upon first hearing this, I was genuinely scared and intimidated at the notion of surrending myself to God. (and still am to be honest) There is a part of me that wants to hold on to this world and to sin, because it's the only thing I've ever known.

There's a part of me that doesnt understand how I'll ever be able to completely transform who I am and really live for God. I suppose the only thing I can do is trust in Christ and pray that he shows me the path of the righteous. There's no better person to ask for help than Jesus himself.

Sorry this is a long rant really, if you guys disagree with something I said, please feel free to let me know. I love having spiritual debates and conversations concerning the bible and faith (then again, why would I be here if I didnt? lol)

I highly reccomend watching this New Life series that my church's new pastor posted online:

Sermon: New Life-Part 1 on Vimeo

Sermon: New Life- Part 2 on Vimeo

Sermon: New Life- Part 3 on Vimeo

Sermon: New Life Part 4 on Vimeo