Salvation by faith that leads to evidence of salvation

EmSw

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Believe me, I have no anger at all. What I find is questions like yours (How do YOU keep His commandments?), is strange for Christians to ask. How do you think Jesus would answer this question, since He is the One Who gave this command?

The answer all starts with love for Him. If you love Him, you don't question His commands. I don't know how else to say it. It depends on what is in your heart.

If our law says not to drive without a license, how does one keep that law? They take the prescribed courses, and take the test. So, how does one not steal? Decide in your heart you are not going to steal, and don't do it, no matter the circumstances.

I am happy you want to follow His commandments; that is the starting point.
 
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Soyeong

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According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being saved from the penalty of our sins by Jesus giving himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness, but it also involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good and being trained to renounce doing what is ungodly, sinful, and Lawless. So there is an aspect of our salvation that has been complete that we receive as a free gift, but there is also an aspect of our salvation that involves ongoing training to be more like Christ is doing what is holy, righteous, and good, and refraining from doing what is sin.

To use an analogy, it is like someone giving us a free gift of a lifetime tuition at a college. The gift is ours in the sense that it has been paid for and belongs to us, yet at the same time there is an aspect of the gift that we need continue to attend that college for life in order to receive. Or if someone were to give you a movie as a free gift, then it would now belong to you and be in your possession, but it was not given to you for the purpose of taking up shelf space, so if it were to remain unopened on your shelf, then there would be an aspect in that you have not fully received the gift until you watch it. Jesus did not give himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness so that we would continue to sin, but rather we are made new creations in Christ for the purpose of doing good works in obedience to God (Ephesians 2:10).

While it is true that we are justified by faith alone apart from good works, faith is never alone, but is always associated with the desire to live in obedience to God's commands. Every example of saving faith in Hebrews 11 is also an example of someone living obedience to God's commands. However, it is not the obedience itself that saves, but rather we are saved by the faith that requires the obedience, and have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires (Romans 1:5).

It is also important to understand that God never require obedience to any of His commands for the purpose of becoming justified, but rather the one and only way that there has ever been to become justified is by faith. Abraham was justified by faith and by the same faith he lived in obedience to God's commands. According to John 8:56, Abraham saw Messiah's day and was glad, so everyone who was justified in the OT looked forward in faith in the promise of a redeemer, just as we look backward in faith.
 
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The question I have is not one of desire, but of ability. I want to follow God's commandments with all my heart, I really do. Instead of answering here, answer in the other thread because we are duplicating replies. In the other post I ask about the "greatest" commandment.
 
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EmSw

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You have no ability to not murder? You have no ability to not lie? You have no ability to not steal? You have no ability to lust after your neighbor's wife? You are a dangerous person.

I will ask the same thing in the other thread.
 
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You have no ability to not murder? You have no ability to not lie? You have no ability to not steal? You have no ability to lust after your neighbor's wife? You are a dangerous person.

I will ask the same thing in the other thread.

I'm afraid it's a little more complicated than that.
The commandments go MUCH deeper than you mention. Let's just go with one. "Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." Do you follow this commandment without fail every day of your life, with every decision that you make, every action that you take, and every thought that you have?
 
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EmSw

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I am wondering why people have trouble loving God. They make so many excuses not to. You would think those with a new birth, leading of the Spirit, a renewed mind, a new heart, and a newfound love, they would have no problem loving God. But I see it isn't so. You would think they were haters of God.

So I ask you Apex, do you love God or do you hate Him? Do you hate Him without fail, with every decision you make, with every action you take, and with every thought you have?

If you are married, do you stop loving your wife? Does doing things against her mean you hate her? Do you ask for forgiveness if you do something against her? Do you love her with all your heart, even if you do something against her?

Now, let's get to the other commandments.
Do you really have no ability to not murder?
You have no ability to not lie?
You have no ability to not steal?
You have no ability to lust after your neighbor's wife?

Does your wife know you have no ability to keep from lusting after other women?
Do your children know you have no ability to keep from lying?
Does your employer know you have no ability to keep from stealing?
Do the police know you have no ability to keep from murdering?
Do you think you please God with no ability to keep His commandments?
Does it please the devil because you have no ability to obey God's commandments?
Who are you going to please?
Who do you think told you, you have no ability to keep God's commandments?
 
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Yes, I love God.
I would like to ask you one more question. A yes or a no answer is sufficient.

The words of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 22:
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Here is the question. I am YOUR neighbor. Do you love ME as yourself?

I'll give you my answer first. You are ALSO my neighbor. Do I love you as myself? I certainly am trying, but fail to reach the target set by God. Therefore, and finally, my salvation is 100% based on the work of Jesus Christ, not in my own work in trying to follow His commandments perfectly. AMEN !
 
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EmSw

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Yes, I love God.
I would like to ask you one more question. A yes or a no answer is sufficient.

Okay.


Since I do not know you, nor have we crossed paths, I am unable to show you any charity. However, I can assure you, if I did know you and you needed food, water, clothes, or anything else to help you, and I have sufficient means, I would gladly help you out. I would not tell you to be filled without providing food.


Jesus didn't ask you follow His commandments perfectly. However, if the opportunity arises, and you have the means, then be sure to love your neighbor as yourself.

Thank you for this discussion.
 
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ANYONE I speak with is my neighbor. You ARE my neighbor. I can show you charity by the way I speak with you on this board.
God DOES require perfection. To prove this you only need to look to the cross. God could have just forgiven sin with a flick of His fingers, but He could not. God is perfect in EVERY way, including His justice. In order to JUSTLY forgive sins, He had to have someone follow the law PERFECTLY and then give Himself, even unto death. The only person that could do this was God Himself. Jesus Christ was/is God in the flesh. If your justification is by the law, YES, you do need to follow it perfectly.

My justification is in Jesus Christ, and He enables me to follow His law. In this life I do not follow the law perfectly because part of me is still subject to sin. Only when I die, then will I be completely free from sin.
 
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EmSw

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ANYONE I speak with is my neighbor. You ARE my neighbor. I can show you charity by the way I speak with you on this board.

If you believe that, I can accept that.

Now, do you believe you are justified by your words? Do you believe you are condemned by them?

Matthew 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.


Well, God does forgive sins without perfection. As far as having someone follow the law perfectly in order to justly forgive sins, it isn't mentioned in the Bible. I will show you what is in the Bible.

Luke 24:47
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Forgiveness or remission, comes from repentance. Jesus never said to follow the law perfectly in order to be forgiven. In fact, nowhere does it say to follow the law perfectly. However, two requirements to be forgiven are repentance and forgiving others, not perfection.

My justification is in Jesus Christ, and He enables me to follow His law. In this life I do not follow the law perfectly because part of me is still subject to sin. Only when I die, then will I be completely free from sin.

Here again, Jesus never said we are justified by anything He did. Here is what John said about righteousness, or justification -

1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Please notice the word 'doeth' in each passage. It is one who 'doeth' righteousness, who is born of God. It is one who 'doeth' righteousness, who is righteous. It is one who 'doeth not' righteousness, nor loves his brother, who is a child of the devil.

Now let's look at John the Baptist.

Matthew 21:32
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

The publicans and harlots believed John's message of righteousness, for they repented and brought works worthy of repentance. The Pharisees saw John's message, but did not believe John's message, therefore, did not repent.

Then we have Peter saying this -

Act 10:35
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

It is those who work righteousness, who are accepted with God.
 
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EmSw

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Would that not be a form of justification? You mention in your post #30 that Jesus Christ did not justify us by anything He did.

Please excuse my writing. I did mention that, but I meant to say Jesus did justify by what we did. Sorry.
 
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Please excuse my writing. I did mention that, but I meant to say Jesus did justify by what we did. Sorry.

No problem.
My only point is that we are justified by the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. The law is good and I want to follow the law. However, if I do follow the law it's NOT because of ANYTHING in my natural self, it's because of Jesus Christ in me, the hope of glory.

My justification does NOT lie in my OWN ability to follow the law, it lies in CHRISTS work, for me. Will the work of Christ in me show itself by me actually following the law? Yes, it should.

The ONLY thing I am trying to convey to you is that the horse MUST come before the cart. The law is the cart. Jesus Christ is the horse.
Without the horse, I am dead.

ALL the credit, ALL the glory goes to Jesus Christ. ALL OF IT!
 
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EmSw

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I am not saying it's not Jesus. He provided us food to eat in order that we may live. However, what if you don't desire to eat, and die from starvation? You could lie in bed all and night and do a thing. Does His provisions of food do you any good? Do you see man has his part?

My justification does NOT lie in my OWN ability to follow the law, it lies in CHRISTS work, for me. Will the work of Christ in me show itself by me actually following the law? Yes, it should.

I'm afraid it does lie in your own ability. You have the ability to speak and therefore, the ability to lie, don't you? Why do you not have the ability to tell the truth?

The ONLY thing I am trying to convey to you is that the horse MUST come before the cart. The law is the cart. Jesus Christ is the horse.
Without the horse, I am dead.

However, the cart MUST be hooked up to and follow the horse.

ALL the credit, ALL the glory goes to Jesus Christ. ALL OF IT!

Do all the commandments you break and all the sins you commit glorify Jesus? If not, why would you desire to break His commandments and sin? Why do you not, with the strength He gives, keep His commandments and not sin?
 
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