The below is my attempt to understand salvation by faith but why I do not accept it at the bottom because of other things Jesus said
John 5:38-40
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life
I know this has been used to condemn the need to work with God for your salvation but that you just receive salvation in a moment but then people say you have not truly been saved if you are not changed. But they prayed exactly what they said. How then do you get saved? and if getting saved would make all things easy Jesus wouldn't teach you need to be watchful. I can see how John 5:38-40 can be interpreted to refer to us orthodox who believe we could perform any righteousness of our own to be worthy of salvation that not every believer can do. This is my attempt to understand salvation by faith but also at the end why I do not believe it and have trouble believing it. We must not give people false assurance they will be saved from their sins if they are not denying themselves daily
Jesus did say He has to be our Lord but He also said He is the Saviour of His people. We have to try to make Him our Lord but we won't be able to without receiving salvation as a gift. We receive salvation as a gift when we ask to make Him our Lord and Saviour so we are not trying to do away with the Law. Those who are saved will keep it. The gospel is fair for we are all sinners who have broken the law and will never do anything but break the Law no matter what we try. So what about willful sins? That person has rejected Jesus and needs to fear he will die before he is reconciled with God. What I am saying we do not have to fear because of sins of weakness we can lose our salvation. I mean the sins that we do which we hate as Paul said. If we have received salvation as a gift the promise is that Christ will deliver us from those sins. We may not be alive tommorow we have to accept salvation as a gift.
Paul said salvation is by grace lest any man should boast and Jesus teaches true faith leads to salvation
John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[a] has everlasting life
John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
But I interpreted John 6:47 and John 5:24 to just mean Jesus way leads to heaven and when His Spirit is in you you are saved from your sins but you can lose salvation if you are not truly believing in christ evidence by salvation from sin. Because your mind is not renewed enough
I have thought the thoughts in the below paragraph but I still do not believe it is true that we do not have to discipline our own body but just have good understanding that does not continually need to be rekindled. I think our salvation is like a flame the fire of the Holy Spirit and our spiritual understanding it continually dies like a lamp but we have to keep putting oil to keep it alive so we may be alive. We are given greater understanding to keep us from further sin when we discipline our body. The end is that we have to overcome sins of the flesh. The wise always feared they do not have enough oil. Though having spiritual understanding helps fight sin we have to be constantly watchful and expecting the devil to try to make us fall in sin. And God wants us to be tested to prove that we love Him. And He gives enough chances.We must make the effort to not give into the sin that so easily ensnares us.
Paul says in Romans 8:4-5 the reason we can't live righteous is because we don't have spiritual understanding. We may have been renewed a bit and stayed away from sin for a bit and thought we were saved but actually we never fully had spiritual understanding or it would not be normal to sin. Maybe it happens but it is not normal. We could have lost spiritual understanding because of forgetfulness so Paul said to the Galatians they had fallen from grace. They accepted and believed it a bit initially so the Spirit worked in them but time tells how much they believed
So Paul said we must give careful heed to the things we have heard lest we drift away. Fighting sin may also help us gain spiritual understanding but we do it by directing our energies to learning the word of God and reading the word of God when away from sin may give greater spiritual understanding
Paul said nothing in our flesh is good
the desire to prove we can be righteous by our intention is sin.
Romans 8:3-8
"3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
Now here is why I do not believe salvation is by faith alone. As orthodox we do believe salvation is by faith alone that has works but it is not just about believing in Jesus and such faith must always be kept alive
Also I think the above is wrong because many times when we sin we do not fully hate the sin even though we know it is bad so it is like a willful sin because we enjoy the sin
we try to tell ourselves we hate it and excuse ourselves but we do not. We clearly do not hate the sin if we are not struggling hard against it but if we resist very hard and sin it is because we are still weak and not pure but we will try harder next time not to sin and we will overcome it if we really hate the sin
We have to fear we are not making enough effort to make Him Lord. Otherwise we are just excusing ourselves and placing the blame on God for not saving us. Christ has promised to save those who try and we should fear falling in sin too much will stop Him from giving us strength
How do you explain the below verses? and the book of revelations says we must be watchful. Jesus is saying to true believers they must be watchful because if the doorkeeper was watchful he would have been saved. If just being saved would keep you from sin without maintaining your salvation by reading the word why the need to be watchful?
Jesus never said His way was easy but rather narrow and difficult. He who says he knows God ought to walk as He walked.
It is up to us to deny ourselves daily and take up the cross daily.
Jesus said watch therefore for you do not know when your Lord is coming. It is up to us. If the doorkeeper had known what hour the thief would come he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
Blessed is the man who endures temptation for he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. If God cuts off the olive branches which is also because the old covenant did not produce fruit He will also cut us off if we do not continue in His goodness because Jesus said the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
We need the fruit of self control. Just like the wise virgins we must always be worried that we do not have enough oil which is the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives. We can not rely on Jesus to save us if we are not doing our very best or not trying also to fight sin by renewing our mind because of our laziness
2 Peter 1:4-20
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
No one and not one thing can bring harm to a person if he does not harm himself; and conversely, a thousand ways and means to salvation will not help the person who will not avoid sin
St Nikon of Optina
John 5:38-40
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life
I know this has been used to condemn the need to work with God for your salvation but that you just receive salvation in a moment but then people say you have not truly been saved if you are not changed. But they prayed exactly what they said. How then do you get saved? and if getting saved would make all things easy Jesus wouldn't teach you need to be watchful. I can see how John 5:38-40 can be interpreted to refer to us orthodox who believe we could perform any righteousness of our own to be worthy of salvation that not every believer can do. This is my attempt to understand salvation by faith but also at the end why I do not believe it and have trouble believing it. We must not give people false assurance they will be saved from their sins if they are not denying themselves daily
Jesus did say He has to be our Lord but He also said He is the Saviour of His people. We have to try to make Him our Lord but we won't be able to without receiving salvation as a gift. We receive salvation as a gift when we ask to make Him our Lord and Saviour so we are not trying to do away with the Law. Those who are saved will keep it. The gospel is fair for we are all sinners who have broken the law and will never do anything but break the Law no matter what we try. So what about willful sins? That person has rejected Jesus and needs to fear he will die before he is reconciled with God. What I am saying we do not have to fear because of sins of weakness we can lose our salvation. I mean the sins that we do which we hate as Paul said. If we have received salvation as a gift the promise is that Christ will deliver us from those sins. We may not be alive tommorow we have to accept salvation as a gift.
Paul said salvation is by grace lest any man should boast and Jesus teaches true faith leads to salvation
John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[a] has everlasting life
John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
But I interpreted John 6:47 and John 5:24 to just mean Jesus way leads to heaven and when His Spirit is in you you are saved from your sins but you can lose salvation if you are not truly believing in christ evidence by salvation from sin. Because your mind is not renewed enough
I have thought the thoughts in the below paragraph but I still do not believe it is true that we do not have to discipline our own body but just have good understanding that does not continually need to be rekindled. I think our salvation is like a flame the fire of the Holy Spirit and our spiritual understanding it continually dies like a lamp but we have to keep putting oil to keep it alive so we may be alive. We are given greater understanding to keep us from further sin when we discipline our body. The end is that we have to overcome sins of the flesh. The wise always feared they do not have enough oil. Though having spiritual understanding helps fight sin we have to be constantly watchful and expecting the devil to try to make us fall in sin. And God wants us to be tested to prove that we love Him. And He gives enough chances.We must make the effort to not give into the sin that so easily ensnares us.
Paul says in Romans 8:4-5 the reason we can't live righteous is because we don't have spiritual understanding. We may have been renewed a bit and stayed away from sin for a bit and thought we were saved but actually we never fully had spiritual understanding or it would not be normal to sin. Maybe it happens but it is not normal. We could have lost spiritual understanding because of forgetfulness so Paul said to the Galatians they had fallen from grace. They accepted and believed it a bit initially so the Spirit worked in them but time tells how much they believed
So Paul said we must give careful heed to the things we have heard lest we drift away. Fighting sin may also help us gain spiritual understanding but we do it by directing our energies to learning the word of God and reading the word of God when away from sin may give greater spiritual understanding
Paul said nothing in our flesh is good
the desire to prove we can be righteous by our intention is sin.
Romans 8:3-8
"3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
Now here is why I do not believe salvation is by faith alone. As orthodox we do believe salvation is by faith alone that has works but it is not just about believing in Jesus and such faith must always be kept alive
Also I think the above is wrong because many times when we sin we do not fully hate the sin even though we know it is bad so it is like a willful sin because we enjoy the sin
we try to tell ourselves we hate it and excuse ourselves but we do not. We clearly do not hate the sin if we are not struggling hard against it but if we resist very hard and sin it is because we are still weak and not pure but we will try harder next time not to sin and we will overcome it if we really hate the sin
We have to fear we are not making enough effort to make Him Lord. Otherwise we are just excusing ourselves and placing the blame on God for not saving us. Christ has promised to save those who try and we should fear falling in sin too much will stop Him from giving us strength
How do you explain the below verses? and the book of revelations says we must be watchful. Jesus is saying to true believers they must be watchful because if the doorkeeper was watchful he would have been saved. If just being saved would keep you from sin without maintaining your salvation by reading the word why the need to be watchful?
Jesus never said His way was easy but rather narrow and difficult. He who says he knows God ought to walk as He walked.
It is up to us to deny ourselves daily and take up the cross daily.
Jesus said watch therefore for you do not know when your Lord is coming. It is up to us. If the doorkeeper had known what hour the thief would come he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
Blessed is the man who endures temptation for he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. If God cuts off the olive branches which is also because the old covenant did not produce fruit He will also cut us off if we do not continue in His goodness because Jesus said the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
We need the fruit of self control. Just like the wise virgins we must always be worried that we do not have enough oil which is the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives. We can not rely on Jesus to save us if we are not doing our very best or not trying also to fight sin by renewing our mind because of our laziness
2 Peter 1:4-20
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
No one and not one thing can bring harm to a person if he does not harm himself; and conversely, a thousand ways and means to salvation will not help the person who will not avoid sin
St Nikon of Optina
Last edited:
