Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
We don't need "Saints" or Jesus to be our role model. It is not our job to act like them.
How ? & why would we honour the dead ?
Is this before,after or during their death ?A patron Saint is a person who, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Church teaches to be the advocate of a particular matter, usually because of how that individual related to that matter on his or her life.
I agree one' salvation should produce Christ' likeness in a person , but a pilgrim' worthiness is dependent on the blood of Christ , not his/her works .We better become more and more like Christ or else we will not be found worthy.
God is a failure because people die ?They aren't dead. If they were, then our God is a failure.
Have a read of 1Cor 15:52 & 1Thess 4:15-17 & then read what you've written above .He's the God of Life because He, by His Incarnation, defeated and depowered death, not just for Himself, but for all.
Death has no power; its realm's gates have been torn from their hinges and are cast aside, twisted and ruined. Instead, the Presence of the Holy Three-in-One radiates, allowing those who've passed on to experience a foretaste of heaven or hell.
Is this before,after or during their death ?
They are physically dead, obviously. However, what he refers to is that they are still alive in Christ.God is a failure because people die ?
by whom & why ? Is there scripture to back this practice up ?Human Saints are always canonized after their death.
1Cor 15:52 & 1Thess 4:15-17They are physically dead, obviously. However, what he refers to is that they are still alive in Christ.
I hope this isn't directed at meI must ask all the fundies to stop with the dumb questions.
Alpha and Omega. Beginning and the End.I don't see any implication in scripture that the intermediate state is "above time". Nor am I sure what you mean by this:
There are two different times.Once one has died, until the resurrection, "dead" seems a perfectly passable description of one's state to me. Of course, one might read implications into that aren't appropriate, but no term is perfect.
Alpha and Omega. Beginning and the End.
There are two different times.
There is "Chronos" which is man's time. We exist on "Chronos", our watches indicate "Chronos".
There is also "Kairos" which is God's time. God's time is above man's time and, for all intents and purposes, on the list of things that man may know about but probably never comprehend because man is not God.
When the body dies, the soul goes on ya? Well, the soul falls under "Kairos" because the soul is with God and thus what I meant by "above time" or more specifically above "Chronos".
The General Resurrection in man's time has not yet happened. Yet it probably has on God's time since God is above all things and since Jesus Christ, who is God, is the Alpha and the Omega, or, the Beginning and the End.
So, getting back to the thread.
This thread has once again manifested the differences in understanding anything between Eastern Christianity and Western Christianity. The bit about time here is one of them and I think in pointing that out the remaining discussion within the thread here shall (hopefully) be slightly smoother.
This little tid-bit about time is one of the many many many things which the earliest Christians wrote about, yet appears to have been lost in the West and consequently Catholicism and Protestantism.
Patron Saint of astronauts? St. David?
"If I go up to the heavens, you are there;" (Psalm 139:8)
by whom & why ? Is there scripture to back this practice up ?
And?1Cor 15:52 & 1Thess 4:15-17
In the Catholic Church it is the Pope who makes the final pronouncements. However, it is a very long investigative process involving many people. The canonization process comes more from Sacred Tradition than Scripture alone. It is approached from a fundamentally different mindset than a Sola Scriptura PoV.
And?
For the record, both in Catholicism and in Orthodoxy/Anglicanism the impetus for canonization comes from the laity, who recognize and recall the 'saintliness' of the individual. ('Saintliness' in quotes since otherwise it would be begging the question, in a way.) The Vatican has a mechanism in place for such 'causes' -- the technical term for nomination for canonization is 'cause'. In Orthodoxy, the local bishop reviews such claims; I'm not clear on the process after that. In Anglicanism, the national church simply votes whether to add a proposed individual to the calendar, in its general meeting (American General Convention, General Synod in other churches, etc.) Catholics have an intermediate step called 'beatification' which awards the epithet 'Blessed" prior to recognizing full sainthood.
So it is not a 'top-down' decision, but one motivated by the people who knew the proposed saint.
Is this before,after or during their death ?
God is a failure because people die ?
Have a read of 1Cor 15:52 & 1Thess 4:15-17 & then read what you've written above .
I'm a great deal bothered by the theoretic basis being advanced for why not to observe saints, coupled with things brough up in other GT threads. Essentially people are taking an antinomian attitude without thinking it through: it doesn't matter what you do in this lifetime because, y'know, it's faith that saves ya, and there's no need to look at Mary or any of the other exemplary Christians of the past because, y'know, they're dead. Screw the Communion of Saints; when your body snuffs it, you're outa here!
And then people wonder why moral standards have (supposedly) dropped? Your theology says it doesn't matter what you do -- it makes no difference in this world or the next.
Yes, I'm being sarcastic -- but with a sharp point to it, I hope. There's a serious fault in what's being taught, in pieces, as the supposed evangelical sense of the Gospel. It needs to be flagged and fixed.
Ephesians 2:19-22
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
In Orthodoxy, it begins locally and spreads from there.For the record, both in Catholicism and in Orthodoxy/Anglicanism the impetus for canonization comes from the laity, who recognize and recall the 'saintliness' of the individual. ('Saintliness' in quotes since otherwise it would be begging the question, in a way.) The Vatican has a mechanism in place for such 'causes' -- the technical term for nomination for canonization is 'cause'. In Orthodoxy, the local bishop reviews such claims; I'm not clear on the process after that. In Anglicanism, the national church simply votes whether to add a proposed individual to the calendar, in its general meeting (American General Convention, General Synod in other churches, etc.) Catholics have an intermediate step called 'beatification' which awards the epithet 'Blessed" prior to recognizing full sainthood.
So it is not a 'top-down' decision, but one motivated by the people who knew the proposed saint.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?