Sacrificing Isaac

[Artorius Lacomus]

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Sacrificing Isaac


Abraham's demonstration of faith in his willingness to sacrifice his son Isaac is curious because we know God didn't need a demonstration. God is omniscient, and foreknowing that Abraham would comply with his sacrificial command. Since God already knew Abraham would comply, who else could Abraham be demonstrating his faith to? Not God, but Abraham himself.


It was a type of object lesson, a life changing experience that God put Abraham through so that Abraham would live out his faith in the most challenging way possible, even to the point of sacrificing his son. Abraham would come out of that experience a changed man, more fully suited for the destiny God had given him. God was molding Abraham by this life experience into the man suited to become the father of the Chosen People, who would in turn become a light to we Gentiles, that salvation might extend to all people.


Abraham's destiny was to lead our species from paganism to monotheism. That's a huge responsibility and Abraham himself was still in the process of being led from paganism to monotheism. He had already abandoned his family and prosperous life in Ur to follow God and the near sacrifice of Isaac was the next step in the formation of his character. The experience would leave Abraham fully owned by God with everything else in his life left far behind, family included. Abraham didn't need to demonstrate this to the all knowing God. He needed to demonstrate it to himself by living it out and coming out of the experience as a changed man.


God was also creating this event to lead our brutish ancestors away from the cruel practice of human sacrifice. Abraham himself lived in a world where human sacrifice was common. In that world, a command from God to sacrifice your own son would have been acceptable but a command to stop the sacrifice was completely out of the norm. It was a command that would bear world changing results as it was passed from Abraham to the Jewish people, then to the Christian people, slowly spreading to the world at large, all starting with God staying the knife in the hand of Abraham. Thus began the decline and eventual end of human sacrifice.


The near sacrifice of Isaac was a case of gracious and divine condescension, of God coming down to our barbaric world at our own fallen level to lift us above our cruel, brutish selves. It established Abraham's faith, not before God but within Abraham's own life experience where it was most needed so that he would be more fully prepared for his God given destiny. It was not a case of God demanding human sacrifice but of God lowering himself to the level of we who are fallen so as to lift us up to he who is risen, now and forever, Amen.

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Alpha Omega

 

[bling]

Who needed to know about Abraham's faith?
Some of the pagan kings living around Abraham did at this time sacrifice their own children to their pagan gods, so would people think these pagan kings were more religious then Abraham?

 

[Artorius Lacomus]

Who needed to know about Abraham's faith?
Some of the pagan kings living around Abraham did at this time sacrifice their own children to their pagan gods, so would people think these pagan kings were more religious then Abraham?

They might think the pagan kings more religious but I doubt everyone would necessarily have the same opinion.
And kings didn't always sacrifice only their children but often people from among the population as well. I would guess the population at large might be glad to hear that the God of Abraham had stopped a human sacrifice. It could have even led to a greater appeal of the God of Abraham to pagan citizens and put pressure on pagan kings to end human sacrifice themselves.

I believe the surrounding nations knew of Abraham's God and were fearful of him. They may have been paying attention even though they weren't followers of God.

 

[Tolworth John]

to lead our brutish ancestors away from the cruel practice of human sacrifice

Brutish, have you looked at what early man produced, have you seen the level of craftsmanship used and the artistic skill shown?

Are you aware that all that separates you and I from Abraham is our education and cultural upbringing.
There is no difference between him and you or I.

As for human sacrifice you are aware aren't you of the pressure to make intfancide legal, of the sexual practices current today that would fit in very nicely into Roman society

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

They might think the pagan kings more religious but I doubt everyone would necessarily have the same opinion.
And kings didn't always sacrifice only their children but often people from among the population as well. I would guess the population at large might be glad to hear that the God of Abraham had stopped a human sacrifice. It could have even led to a greater appeal of the God of Abraham to pagan citizens and put pressure on pagan kings to end human sacrifice themselves.

I believe the surrounding nations knew of Abraham's God and were fearful of him. They may have been paying attention even though they weren't followers of God.

What would cause the surrounding nations to be fearful of the God of Abraham ?

 

[Mr. M]

What would cause the surrounding nations to be fearful of the God of Abraham ?

Genesis 14 The Blessing of Melchizedek

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Genesis 14 The Blessing of Melchizedek

I guess what I was getting at was for example with Moses the Plagues put fear in the Egyptians the same with Elijah, Elisha, David for it was obvious God was with them and if you opposed them Gods judgment was upon you. This was not the case in Abrahams day.

 

[Mr. M]

I guess what I was getting at was for example with Moses the Plagues put fear in the Egyptians the same with Elijah, Elisha, David for it was obvious God was with them and if you opposed them Gods judgment was upon you. This was not the case in Abrahams day.

I understand, such as "knowing the terror of the Lord". I was pointing more specifically to this verse:
Genesis 14:18. Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High.
If a regional king who was also known as the priest of El Shaddai came out to bless Abraham after he won a great military victory, that would earn Abraham an enormous measure of fearful respect.
Abraham wasn't just a guy living in a tent with his wife and nephew.
V. 14 Now when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his three hundred and eighteen trained servants who were born in his own house, and went in pursuit as far as Dan.
What this means is that Abram had other servant "employees" who were not involved. Only those born of his household were entrusted with martial training. Also, Abram came out of Egypt with great wealth.
Genesis 13:
1 Then Abram went up from Egypt, he and his wife and all that he had, and Lot with him, to the South.
2 Abram was very rich in livestock, in silver, and in gold.

Abram was truly a man to be reckoned with, whose "household" was more of an enterprise.
Working for Abram was a good gig. That is why I at first simply referenced the whole chapter 14, it is
very informative of the ancient world of Abraham and the setting for the topic. Of course, we have
Psalm 110:4. The Lord has sworn and will not relent, You are a priest forever according to the
order of Melchizedek.
This is foundational to our understanding of Jesus as our eternal high priest, as elaborated upon in
Hebrews 5-8.
Did you not know that your priesthood is of the Order of Melchizedek?

 

[Mr. M]

Did you not know that your priesthood is of the Order of Melchizedek?

Hebrews 7:
15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest
16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the
power of an endless life.

 

[Artorius Lacomus]

What would cause the surrounding nations to be fearful of the God of Abraham ?

Genesis 20:1-18
I believe Abimelech is acting our of fear. Verse 8 states Abimelech's servants were filled with fear after the kings tells them what happened.
I just think word got out concerning the God of Abraham.
Check out the passage, I think you'd agree.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Genesis 20:1-18
I believe Abimelech is acting our of fear. Verse 8 states Abimelech's servants were filled with fear after the kings tells them what happened.
I just think word got out concerning the God of Abraham.
Check out the passage, I think you'd agree.

Good point !

 

[Mr. M]

Thus began the decline and eventual end of human sacrifice.

I was not going to mention this because it is a topic I do not debate, but since this is the controversial
forum, I will ask: are you not considering abortion as a form of child sacrifice to the 'god of this world'?

 

[Mr. M]

Abraham's demonstration of faith in his willingness to sacrifice his son Isaac is curious because we know God didn't need a demonstration. God is omniscient, and foreknowing that Abraham would comply with his sacrificial command. Since God already knew Abraham would comply, who else could Abraham be demonstrating his faith to? Not God, but Abraham himself.

And also to us!
Genesis 26:5. because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.

 

[Mr. M]

Abraham's destiny was to lead our species from paganism to monotheism. That's a huge responsibility and Abraham himself was still in the process of being led from paganism to monotheism. He had already abandoned his family and prosperous life in Ur to follow God and the near sacrifice of Isaac was the next step in the formation of his character.

Do you really think he felt this burden? The narrative suggests that he just wanted a son, an heir.

 

[Mr. M]

The near sacrifice of Isaac was a case of gracious and divine condescension, of God coming down to our barbaric world at our own fallen level to lift us above our cruel, brutish selves. It established Abraham's faith, not before God but within Abraham's own life experience where it was most needed so that he would be more fully prepared for his God given destiny. It was not a case of God demanding human sacrifice but of God lowering himself to the level of we who are fallen so as to lift us up to he who is risen, now and forever, Amen.

It also shows that among a hodgepodge of beliefs in what happens to man after death, Abraham is said to believe in the possibility of a resurrection. A foundation of the Gospel that was preached, and must be preached today.
Hebrews 11:
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,”
19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received
him in a figurative sense.

 

[Artorius Lacomus]

I was not going to mention this because it is a topic I do not debate, but since this is the controversial
forum, I will ask: are you not considering abortion as a form of child sacrifice to the 'god of this world'?

I would call abortion murder or infanticide
The only reason I would stop short of calling it human sacrifice is that I don't think the women going in for abortion are doing it with the conscious intent of sacrificing a child to a supernatural deity.
I certainly get where you're coming from though and I'm certain the "god of this world" delights in every abortion performed.

 

[Artorius Lacomus]

Brutish, have you looked at what early man produced, have you seen the level of craftsmanship used and the artistic skill shown?

Are you aware that all that separates you and I from Abraham is our education and cultural upbringing.
There is no difference between him and you or I.

As for human sacrifice you are aware aren't you of the pressure to make intfancide legal, of the sexual practices current today that would fit in very nicely into Roman society

The post was not about artistry or craftsmanship. And if this is about the word brutish, just realize a great artist can still be a great brute.

There is much which separates us from Abraham, levels of faith being the most well known. If you're not willing to sacrifice your son at the command of God, you ARE different than Abraham. And if you haven't actually gone through that experience, you're even more different. That's a life changing event for both parties and you come out different at the other end of it.

Regarding "pressure to make intfancide legal", that would be an attempt to return to the greater brutality of the ancient world where it was legal, even up to three years of age according to some sources. If it's illegal now, we've become less brutish, despite the fact that some might wish a return to those days.

Regarding sexual practices today, we seem to agree.

 

[Tolworth John]

The post was not about artistry or craftsmanship. And if this is about the word brutish, just realize a great artist can still be a great brute.

And your evidence hat they were ' brutes ' is?

There is no difference between you, me or Abraham we are all human, our culture makes us different.

 

[WebersHome]

.
Isaac was old enough, and strong enough, to shoulder a load of wood; and mature enough to understand the particulars of the ritual that he and his dad were on their way to perform; so Isaac wasn't a little kid in this incident.

The reason I point that out is because had Isaac not consented to the ritual, then he could have easily escaped because Abraham was alone; he had no one to assist him to restrain Isaac: the servants having remained behind with the burro. Besides, Isaac had to consent or the whole affair would disintegrate into a ritual murder.

If we can safely assume Sarah's death immediately followed the event, then Isaac would have been 37 when he and Abraham went to the mountain seeing as how Isaac's mom was ninety when he was born.

NOTE: A technical point often overlooked in the "human sacrifice" issue is that in every instance banning the practice in the Old Testament, it is underage children that are condemned as offerings-- innocent children; viz: babes; and in particular, one's own. (e.g. Lev 18:21, Lev 20:2-5, Deut 12:31, Deut 18:10, cf. 2Kgs 16:3, 2Kgs 17:31, 2Kgs 23:10, 2Kgs 21:6, Ps 106:34, Ezk 20:31, Ezk 23:37, Jer 7:31, Jer 19:4, Jer 32:35). I have yet to encounter an instance where God expressed abhorrence at sacrificing a consenting adult.

FYI: There is no record of God banning the practice of sacrificing consenting adults up to the time of Abraham's day. Had God banned it later in Moses' day, the ban wouldn't have counted because divine law doesn't have ex post facto jurisdiction; i.e. it isn't retroactive.

Also to consider: were all adult sacrificing wrong, then Christ's crucifixion for the sins of the world would be null and void.
_

 

[Artorius Lacomus]

.
Isaac was old enough, and strong enough, to shoulder a load of wood; and mature enough to understand the particulars of the ritual that he and his dad were on their way to perform; so Isaac wasn't a little kid in this incident.

The reason I point that out is because had Isaac not consented to the ritual, then he could have easily escaped because Abraham was alone; he had no one to assist him to restrain Isaac: the servants having remained behind with the burro. Besides, Isaac had to consent or the whole affair would disintegrate into a ritual murder.

If we can safely assume Sarah's death immediately followed the event, then Isaac would have been 37 when he and Abraham went to the mountain seeing as how Isaac's mom was ninety when he was born.

NOTE: A technical point often overlooked in the "human sacrifice" issue is that in every instance banning the practice in the Old Testament, it is underage children that are condemned as offerings-- innocent children; viz: babes; and in particular, one's own. (e.g. Lev 18:21, Lev 20:2-5, Deut 12:31, Deut 18:10, cf. 2Kgs 16:3, 2Kgs 17:31, 2Kgs 23:10, 2Kgs 21:6, Ps 106:34, Ezk 20:31, Ezk 23:37, Jer 7:31, Jer 19:4, Jer 32:35). I have yet to encounter an instance where God expressed abhorrence at sacrificing a consenting adult.

FYI: There is no record of God banning the practice of sacrificing consenting adults up to the time of Abraham's day. Had God banned it later in Moses' day, the ban wouldn't have counted because divine law doesn't have ex post facto jurisdiction; i.e. it isn't retroactive.

Also to consider: were all adult sacrificing wrong, then Christ's crucifixion for the sins of the world would be null and void.
_

Just to clarify, are you implying that in certain cases, under certain conditions that God was or is okay with human sacrifice?