Sacred Scriptures

[Avelina777]

It was supposedly given to John Dee and Edward Kelly from angelic beings. It's not from any of the old apocryphal books attributed to Enoch. Enochian magic came along later.

Lets just stick with the truth and stop posting falsehoods....the only correct version of the book of Enoch is the Ethiopic version...as far as Enochian magic just paganism again, not Enoch's fault..man's fault.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Lets just stick with the truth and stop posting falsehoods

I wasn't making a truth claim. I just posted it because another poster was talking about an interest in Enochian magic bringing them to their current religious beliefs.

the only correct version of the book of Enoch is the Ethiopic version..

There may be wisdom in the book but I doubt it was actually authored by Enoch. It would have to be much older than scholars credit it with being if that were the case.

as far as Enochian magic just paganism again, not Enoch's fault..man's fault.

Enochian magic is more Judeo-Christian in orientation than pagan.

 

[Avelina777]

I wasn't making a truth claim. I just posted it because another poster was talking about an interest in Enochian magic bringing them to their current religious beliefs.

There may be wisdom in the book but I doubt it was actually authored by Enoch. It would have to much older than scholars credit it with being if that were the case.

Enochian magic is more Judeo-Christian in orientation than pagan.

The book of enoch was authored by enoch and is referenced in the bible...but the only correct version is the ethiopic, pick up one or you can download one for free, read it before you judge, you would be surprised!

 

[Ishraqiyun]

The book of enoch was authored by enoch and is referenced in the bible...but the only correct version is the ethiopic, pick up one or you can download one for free, read it before you judge, you would be surprised!

I have. It's a great book. I realize that it is quoted in the New Testament as well. I just doubt that it was actually authored by Enoch. He was said to have lived before the flood and to have been Adams great grandson after all! How was this book preserved? Did Noah take it on his ark with him?

 

[smaneck]

I would say I have great admiration for the first three I mentioned. I know a little more about them personally outside of the books they have written. The latter ones I know mostly through a number of books I received when I was inquiring into the faith. It's hard to find too many Shi'ite authors in English sadly. Shaykh Fadhlalla Haeri is a shi'ite who published a good number of books in English but he isn't Iranian or Turkish so I didn't include him.

The University of Virginia periodically has some good Shi'ite scholars teaching there. The one I'm most familiar with is Abdulaziz A. Sachedina, who was a student of Ali Shariati. Mohsen Kadivar has taught there as a visiting professor.
A lot of Ali Shariati's works have been translated into English. He presents Shi'ism as a Liberation Theology.

 

[smaneck]

This statement simply does jibe with his prayer habit.

Even Voltaire has a prayer chapel.

Washington was a lot more private about his religious beliefs than say, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. We know he was a Freemason, but he wasn't as heavily influenced by the Enlightenment as Jefferson or Franklin. We also know that he attended the Episcopal Church but would leave before the sacraments were administered. Washington would oftentimes refer to God as "Providence", "the Governor of the Universe" or "Great Ruler of Events" but he never used the name Jesus Christ in his public or private writings. I guess like all good soldiers he believed in Fate.

 

[smaneck]

If you have info on this from between 70 AD - 150 AD, I'd like to know where you got it from ...

Most scholars regard Timothy and Titus as having been composed in the early second century. That's where we see clear signs of a patriarchal church organization. But even in Corinthians, a text which is indisputably Pauline, Paul recites what seems to be a litany of who supposedly saw the resurrected Christ. He states, first the twelve, then the five hundred and finally himself.

Whatever happened to the women at the tomb? Apparently they don't count!

Thank God for Luke or we would never know that Jesus wasn't like that.

 

[smaneck]

Well God did write it all in the stars...not astrology, biblical astronomy,

Biblical astronomy is a contradiction in terms. Astronomy deals with the physical study of the stars, planets, black holes, etc. Astrology deals with the signs of the Zodiac, etc. Since your book, *The Glory of the Stars* deals with the Zodiac, it is therefore astrology not astronomy, whether biblical or not.

 

[smaneck]

There may be wisdom in the book but I doubt it was actually authored by Enoch. It would have to be much older than scholars credit it with being if that were the case.

I don't think anyone believes it was actually authored by Enoch. Pseudepigraphal writings were fairly common in antiquity. But keep in mind that Enoch is one of those biblical figures who supposedly never died.

I suppose you know that the Israqiyyun believe Enoch (Idris) was the founder of their philosophy?
Enoch often times got conflated with Hermes Trismegistus, which may be why he came to associated with magic.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

The book of enoch was authored by enoch and is referenced in the bible...

Oh my... never mind the facts: if the BIBLE says so (even if it does not), it MUST be true. Do not let reality interfere with your beliefs.

But taking your own advice, let's stick with the truth nevertheless:
The oldest parts of the book date from 300 BCE, its youngest from the 1st century BCE.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

He actually was a free mason but not to the degree of the elite group and what that is all about basically satan worship, worship of this world and money driven, Washington was just part of the outer ring which he had no idea which most free mason's don't of what really goes on. Washington was a great Christian.

Christian revisionism at its worst. (And not just with regards to "Freemasons = Satanists".)

 

[smaneck]

The book of enoch was authored by enoch and is referenced in the bible...

So why wasn't it included in the canon?

(This question is for you only.)

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

You are obviously not reading what I said, NOT OCCULT, occult is astrology, this is BIBLICAL ASTRONOMY, you have to realize there is a HUGE difference! God wrote the stars, not some weird occult.

NOT Yoga, Yoga is satanic. Only PRAISE MOVES may be practices by a proper Christian!

Although "occult" is a buzzword for Christians, it really means nothing more than "hidden". So if you claim that there's some message hidden in the stars, that's saying nothing else than "it's occult knowledge".

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Biblical astronomy is a contradiction in terms. Astronomy deals with the physical study of the stars, planets, black holes, etc. Astrology deals with the signs of the Zodiac, etc. Since your book, *The Glory of the Stars* deals with the Zodiac, it is therefore astrology not astronomy, whether biblical or not.

I think this bears repeating.

 

[Rationalt]

NOT Yoga, Yoga is satanic. Only PRAISE MOVES may be practices by a proper Christian!

Praise Moves .

Godly fitness .Is there a satanic fitness ? .

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Praise Moves .

Godly fitness .Is there a satanic fitness ? .

According to the PraiseMoves website (and some similarly hysterical and/or gullible believers-milking websites), yes there is:

"It seems the enemy has a counterfeit for almost everything the Lord offers. (NOTE: When I use the phrase “the enemy” I am not referring to a person or group of people. Rather, “the enemy” refers to satan, the devil, the enemy of your soul. We love people. We hate sin and the author of it; the one Jesus calls “the thief” in John 10:10 and “a murderer” and “the father of lies” in John 8:44.)

[...]

Yoga’s breathing techniques (pranayama) may seem stress-relieving, yet they can be an open door to the psychic realm – inhaling and exhaling certain “energies” for the purpose of relaxation and cleansing."

 

[steve_bakr]

According to the PraiseMoves website (and some similarly hysterical and/or gullible believers-milking websites), yes there is:

"It seems the enemy has a counterfeit for almost everything the Lord offers. (NOTE: When I use the phrase “the enemy” I am not referring to a person or group of people. Rather, “the enemy” refers to satan, the devil, the enemy of your soul. We love people. We hate sin and the author of it; the one Jesus calls “the thief” in John 10:10 and “a murderer” and “the father of lies” in John 8:44.)

[...]

Yoga’s breathing techniques (pranayama) may seem stress-relieving, yet they can be an open door to the psychic realm – inhaling and exhaling certain “energies” for the purpose of relaxation and cleansing."

How embarrassing. Well, I don't feel that way about yoga. The true meaning of yoga, I gather from the Gita, is a method of acheiving union with God. The Gita explains the various methods, such as karma yoga, bhakti yoga, etc. Another great Scripture or collection of Scriptures are the Upanishads, which deals with the experience of union with God. Also, a great expositor of Vedanta--ie. the core of Hinduism--is Shankara.

 

[secondtimearound]

I would like to whey in on your question, mostly why do I have belief in the bible as holy scripture. It all stems from one huge experience in my life. I hope you take me as being serious and not delusional as many of my fellow Christians believe my story to be; understand it takes a lot to put this kind of thing out there.

I will save you the full story, I have shared it on here numerous times and for the most part am met with a passive animosity. But nothing changes, this is why I believe and I invite you to dissect it.

Here's the gist; I had a dream and in that dream I saw a man in the clouds. I woke up and found myself paralyzed, the feeling returned. The next day I noticed marks on my palms and I had grey hair. From this dream I had changes to my physical self. I will save you the suspense, I was raised in a free thought home, devoid of religion and was given freedom to choose. At 19 my atheist father had suddenly become a believer and at 21 I had moved back in with him after crushing some joints in my wrist due to a fight outside the club I worked at (I was a doorman). My father's new wife was a feverish believer in the return of Jesus and the book of revelations and I thought she was crazy but enjoyed apocolyptic stories and figured I would read this non-sense. This was the first time in my life I picked up a bible (outside of stealing one from a hotel for rolling papers). As I read the Book of Revelations I read a description of Jesus who was described as the man I saw in my dream and I realized it was true, all of it. No matter how I argue against it, my own experience tells me it is without a doubt, true. So these days I hide my Christianity due to my secular success, afraid to loose what I have. But make no mistake about it, I have no doubt that the Bible is true and that God (Jesus) are exactly who they say they are.

 

[merryheart]

True! Thank you for pointing that out.

Are you saying 'highest ideals' is the gauge for obtaining those things like patience, humility, truthfulness, trustworthiness, kindness, mercy and compassion? That's the difference between muslims in the US and islamic extremists.

Muslims outside the US are also usually not extremists. There. Now you heard it from a non-muslim. You might try getting to know a few - and not from a "boy have I got something to teach you" point of view... you might be humbled.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The book of enoch was authored by enoch and is referenced in the bible...but the only correct version is the ethiopic, pick up one or you can download one for free, read it before you judge, you would be surprised!

Enoch is second temple period literature, most likely around 300 years before Christ.

It was an influential book for both Judaism and early Christianity, and its influence can be seen in the New Testament and is indeed quoted in St. Jude's epistle.

However it's still second temple literature. It wasn't authored by the biblical Enoch.

-CryptoLutheran