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twin1954

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What does the word "sacrament" mean to you as a Reformed Christian? (Please specify if you are Reformed Baptist or Traditionally Reformed in your post).
A sacrament is a means of grace whereby grace is imparted to those who receicve the sacrament.

believe in sacraments?
Absolutely not!

amental theology biblical or is it the invention of men?
It is the invention of men.

You know what I am concerning Reformed.
 
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Eddie L

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What does the word "sacrament" mean to you as a Reformed Christian? (Please specify if you are Reformed Baptist or Traditionally Reformed in your post).

I am a presbyterian (PCA), and to me a sacrament is a physical action we perform in our religious practice that symoblizes a spiritual action God has performed. It is a means of grace, not in the sense the RC think that it is, but in the sense that it causes us to reflect and remember God's promises and what He has done for us.

Do you believe in sacraments?

I believe they are valuable, yes, but not in the RC sense.

Is sacramental theology biblical or is it the invention of men?

I think the sacraments of baptism and communion are biblical.
 
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Oct 21, 2003
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What does the word "sacrament" mean to you as a Reformed Christian? (Please specify if you are Reformed Baptist or Traditionally Reformed in your post).

Do you believe in sacraments?

Is sacramental theology biblical or is it the invention of men?


From the Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (a Baptist publisher):


"SACRAMENT Religious rite or ceremony regarded as an outward sign of an inward, spiritual grace. The rite or ceremony was instituted by Jesus Christ. The Latin term sacramentum means an “oath of allegiance” and may have originally referred to a vow taken by soldiers entering the Roman army. Christian use apparently began with Tertullian and was the Latin translation of the Greek word “mystery” (1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 3:3; Col. 1:26).
The number of sacraments has varied in Christianity. Early Christians used the term to designate baptism. Later, this concept was extended to include the Lord’s Supper. The Roman Catholic Church practices seven sacraments: confirmation, penance, ordination, marriage, last rites, baptism, and the Eucharist. Protestant churches recognize only two: baptism and the Lord’s Supper.
The exact meaning of sacrament has varied in Christian history. Roman Catholic theology taught that the sacraments actually convey what they represent, saving grace. In Lutheran theology the promise of the word of God is conveyed through the sacraments. Reformed theologians underscore the significance of the sacraments in terms of “signs and seals” of the covenant. In all these confessional traditions, the ritual is connected with the spiritual truth and reality conveyed through the act.
Some sacramental rituals are considered by various Christian denominations to be ordinances. Ordinances, like sacraments, are considered established by Jesus Christ and are observed in obedience to His command. Unlike sacraments, ordinances are not understood to convey some type of grace. Ordinances are rites that commemorate the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Ordinances are performed as expressions of loving obedience to Christ. Two ordinances underscore various aspects of the Christian’s life. The ordinance of baptism is a person’s public profession of faith and serves as an initiatory rite of entrance into the community of faith. The Lord’s Supper is a continuing ordinance denoting the person’s ongoing commitment of the life to Christ.
The idea that outward signs convey spiritual realities is taught in the Bible. For example, believer’s baptism is an outward, public demonstration of the believer’s spiritual union with Christ. Non-sacramentalists would do well to emphasize the spiritual realities represented in the ritual as well as the commemoration of Christ’s sufferings and death. The notion that sacraments convey grace, however, is contrary to Scripture. In its entirety the thrust of the Bible is that grace comes through faith, not works (Rom. 4:3; Gal. 3:6). The understanding that sacraments convey grace implies that a person can, through the performance of some ritual, receive grace as reward for effort. The biblical perspective is that genuine faith produces works. Sacraments are not the automatic or mechanical transmission of divine grace. Genuine faith issues forth in works of faith, but works do not result in the reception of grace.

Stan Norman

Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary. 2003 (C. Brand, C. Draper, A. England, S. Bond, E. R. Clendenen, T. C. Butler & B. Latta, Ed.) (1428). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

:thumbsup:
 
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Osage Bluestem

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From the Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (a Baptist publisher):


"SACRAMENT Religious rite or ceremony regarded as an outward sign of an inward, spiritual grace. The rite or ceremony was instituted by Jesus Christ. The Latin term sacramentum means an “oath of allegiance” and may have originally referred to a vow taken by soldiers entering the Roman army. Christian use apparently began with Tertullian and was the Latin translation of the Greek word “mystery” (1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 3:3; Col. 1:26).
The number of sacraments has varied in Christianity. Early Christians used the term to designate baptism. Later, this concept was extended to include the Lord’s Supper. The Roman Catholic Church practices seven sacraments: confirmation, penance, ordination, marriage, last rites, baptism, and the Eucharist. Protestant churches recognize only two: baptism and the Lord’s Supper.
The exact meaning of sacrament has varied in Christian history. Roman Catholic theology taught that the sacraments actually convey what they represent, saving grace. In Lutheran theology the promise of the word of God is conveyed through the sacraments. Reformed theologians underscore the significance of the sacraments in terms of “signs and seals” of the covenant. In all these confessional traditions, the ritual is connected with the spiritual truth and reality conveyed through the act.
Some sacramental rituals are considered by various Christian denominations to be ordinances. Ordinances, like sacraments, are considered established by Jesus Christ and are observed in obedience to His command. Unlike sacraments, ordinances are not understood to convey some type of grace. Ordinances are rites that commemorate the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Ordinances are performed as expressions of loving obedience to Christ. Two ordinances underscore various aspects of the Christian’s life. The ordinance of baptism is a person’s public profession of faith and serves as an initiatory rite of entrance into the community of faith. The Lord’s Supper is a continuing ordinance denoting the person’s ongoing commitment of the life to Christ.
The idea that outward signs convey spiritual realities is taught in the Bible. For example, believer’s baptism is an outward, public demonstration of the believer’s spiritual union with Christ. Non-sacramentalists would do well to emphasize the spiritual realities represented in the ritual as well as the commemoration of Christ’s sufferings and death. The notion that sacraments convey grace, however, is contrary to Scripture. In its entirety the thrust of the Bible is that grace comes through faith, not works (Rom. 4:3; Gal. 3:6). The understanding that sacraments convey grace implies that a person can, through the performance of some ritual, receive grace as reward for effort. The biblical perspective is that genuine faith produces works. Sacraments are not the automatic or mechanical transmission of divine grace. Genuine faith issues forth in works of faith, but works do not result in the reception of grace.

Stan Norman

Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary. 2003 (C. Brand, C. Draper, A. England, S. Bond, E. R. Clendenen, T. C. Butler & B. Latta, Ed.) (1428). Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.

:thumbsup:

Interesting. Why don't the Reformed just all agree to call them ordinances instead of sacraments because the word sacrament seems to imply reward for effort.
 
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Oct 21, 2003
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Interesting. Why don't the Reformed just all agree to call them ordinances instead of sacraments because the word sacrament seems to imply reward for effort.

I don't know, everything gets so complicated under a microscope.

The other day I was reading from a book by Calvinistic Baptist Christopher Catherwood titled "Church History", and found something he wrote really interesting. When Martin Luther penned the 95 Thesis he never intended starting a Reformation...they were points to be debated, but the debate never happened. Both Martin Luther and John Calvin had trained to be Catholic priests, they were both highly educated and even though they were all but forced to break away from Catholocism, neither totally rejected Catholocism, and rightfully so. For example, the doctrines of the Trinity, original sin, and the virgin birth were already established Catholic doctrines. For this reason, I think we should be careful about arguing or trying to use historical facts against them, just because like them we have issues with Catholocism. Perhaps I would disagree with John Calvin on his view of the Lord's Supper (I honestly don't know), but one of the charitable attributes of the Presbyterian Churches is that there is room for disagreements, and we rejoice in diversity within our unity. Personally I agree with the Broadman & Holman article, and would even go so far as to say that Presbyterians who believe otherwise are inconsistent, but at the same time, it's forgivable to me because inconsistency is so common to man, and different people have different inconsistencies. I guess what I"m saying is, I would be careful to generalize all Presbyterians into the Roman Catholic view of the sacraments. I cannot comment on the Reformed confessions on this topic, as there are so many of them, it would be difficult to compile them.
 
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Osage Bluestem

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I don't know, everything gets so complicated under a microscope.

The other day I was reading from a book by Calvinistic Baptist Christopher Catherwood titled "Church History", and found something he wrote really interesting. When Martin Luther penned the 95 Thesis he never intended starting a Reformation...they were points to be debated, but the debate never happened. Both Martin Luther and John Calvin had trained to be Catholic priests, they were both highly educated and even though they were all but forced to break away from Catholocism, neither totally rejected Catholocism, and rightfully so. For example, the doctrines of the Trinity, original sin, and the virgin birth were already established Catholic doctrines. For this reason, I think we should be careful about arguing or trying to use historical facts against them, just because like them we have issues with Catholocism. Perhaps I would disagree with John Calvin on his view of the Lord's Supper (I honestly don't know), but one of the charitable attributes of the Presbyterian Churches is that there is room for disagreements, and we rejoice in diversity within our unity. Personally I agree with the Broadman & Holman article, and would even go so far as to say that Presbyterians who believe otherwise are inconsistent, but at the same time, it's forgivable to me because inconsistency is so common to man, and different people have different inconsistencies. I guess what I"m saying is, I would be careful to generalize all Presbyterians into the Roman Catholic view of the sacraments. I cannot comment on the Reformed confessions on this topic, as there are so many of them, it would be difficult to compile them.

The debate that never happened turned out to be a big mess.
 
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JM

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I would agree with Bullinger's symbolic parallelism. It is kind of a middle way between the strict memorial view and the sacramental view. The bread and wine are memorial symbols, yet we, by faith receive Christ at the same time and participate in the blood and body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 10:16
 
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Nova Scotian Boy

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When it some to the Lord's Supper i would fall very close to Calvin's view which is only a step below Luther's. The Greek word for Sacrament is mysterios (may have gotten te spelling wrong. ), which means mystery. Basically the sacraments are mystery's there is something very divine going on but what exactly is hard to understand.

They are a means of grace, meaning in essence through the sacraments the regenerate receive spiritual nourishment.

If you want to learn more i recommend Given for You: Reclaiming Calvin's Doctrine of the Lord's Supper By Keith Mathison. Im currently reading through it and find it good.
 
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Oct 21, 2003
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So I decided to do a little research, to read Calvin on Sacraments, especially the Lord's Supper, and would like to share a quote:

"2. Pious souls can derive great confidence and delight from this sacrament, as being a testimony that they form one body with Christ, so that everything which is his they may call their own. Hence it follows, that we can confidently assure ourselves, that eternal life, of which he himself is the heir, is ours, and that the kingdom of heaven, into which he has entered, can no more be taken from us than from him; on the other hand, that we cannot be condemned for our sins, from the guilt of which he absolves us, seeing he has been pleased that these should be imputed to himself as if they were his own. This is the wondrous exchange made by his boundless goodness. Having become with us the Son of Man, he has made us with himself sons of God. By his own descent to the earth he has prepared our ascent to heaven. Having received our mortality, he has bestowed on us his immortality. Having undertaken our weakness, he has made us strong in his strength. Having submitted to our poverty, he has transferred to us his riches. Having taken upon himself the burden of unrighteousness with which we were oppressed, he has clothed us with his righteousness." - John Calvin from the Institutes book 4, section 17-2 "The manifold uses and advantages of this sacrament to the pious"

I had never thought so deeply about The Lord's Supper, clearly I've been like an Ox, a beast in the field on this rich festival of remembrance! I've always taken communion as a time to ask for forgiveness, and our lives should be one of continual repentance, but I've not thought of it as a reminder of the imputed righteousness of Christ, and that we cannot be condemned for our sins! Too often the focus of communion is on self...on sins and confession...when it should be on Christ, when is should be a reminder that there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. In a way, it's like spitting in the face of the accuser of the brethren, the devil who would have us focusing and wallowing in our sins to destroy our witness. Jesus Christ is Lord, he died for the sins of His people, and though Satan would accuse and attempt to bring down self-condemnation, his accusations are defeated by the precious blood of Jesus!
 
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I don't understand how Calvin could reject ex opere operato and then basically state the same thing. What am I misunderstanding about Calvin's view?

I don't know, but from browsing the Institutes he is clearly against transubstantiation and consubstantiation.
 
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