Sacerdotalism

simonthezealot · Jul 21, 2010

Is it a human barrier between God and man?
Or is it a necessity as it was in the OT.

Standing Up · Jul 21, 2010

Why would it be necessary?

Sacerdotalism is the idea that a propitiatory sacrifice for sin must be offered by the intervention of an order of men separated to the priesthood. This system of the priesthood is taught in the Old Testament.[1]
The term sacerdotalism comes from the Latin sacerdos, priest, literally one who presents sacred offerings, sacer, sacred, and dare, to give.
Sacerdotalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MrPolo · Jul 21, 2010

The early Church certainly believed Christ established "sacerdotalism". That would incidentally include the authors of Scripture who wrote of the NT roles of bishops, priests, and deacons.

DD2008 · Jul 21, 2010

simonthezealot said:
Is it a human barrier between God and man?
Or is it a necessity as it was in the OT.

It is a man made barrier between God and man that was made by certain men to give a certain institution power over men.

Kristos · Jul 21, 2010

I don't know where you are getting the barrier thing?

Christ is both the offerer and the offeree. No barrier.

Standing Up · Jul 21, 2010

MrPolo said:
The early Church certainly believed Christ established "sacerdotalism". That would incidentally include the authors of Scripture who wrote of the NT roles of bishops, priests, and deacons.

Here's another view.

History of the Christian Church, Volume II: Ante-Nicene Christianity. A.D. 100-325. | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

MamaZ · Jul 21, 2010

It is not necessary. For our High priest has enterd the Holy of Holies and live to intercede on our behalf.

simonthezealot · Jul 21, 2010

Kristos said:
I don't know where you are getting the barrier thing?

Christ is both the offerer and the offeree. No barrier.

The Father ~ Christ~Man
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Sacerdotalism necessitates a priest
The Father ~ Christ~Priest~Man
But, the veil has been torn.

19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body

We the elect are the priests.
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

And Jesus the High Priest
24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Sacerdotalism in my view insulates people from God, where the New Testament places none.

BrotherBob · Jul 21, 2010

simonthezealot said:
The Father ~ Christ~Man
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Sacerdotalism necessitates a priest
The Father ~ Christ~Priest~Man
But, the veil has been torn.

19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body

We the elect are the priests.
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

And Jesus the High Priest
24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Sacerdotalism in my view insulates people from God, where the New Testament places none.

jckstraw72 · Jul 21, 2010

i know of no barrier between me and God in the Orthodox Church which I would imagine you consider sacerdotal. in fact, the Sacraments put me face to face with God, closer than I could come without them.

simonthezealot · Jul 21, 2010

jckstraw72 said:
i know of no barrier between me and God in the Orthodox Church which I would imagine you consider sacerdotal. in fact, the Sacraments put me face to face with God, closer than I could come without them.

Do you need a priest to come face to face with God?

Christos Anesti · Jul 21, 2010

Do you need a priest to come face to face with God?

In order to have the Eucharist a priest or bishop is necessary. One can pray and enter into communion with the Father in that manner without a priest or bishop present though obviously. Not everyone in the Church has the same gifts and charisms and we do rely on one another to share those that they do have. This shows us our interdepedence with our fellow Christians.

GratiaCorpusChristi · Jul 21, 2010

Edit.

Standing Up · Jul 21, 2010

Christos Anesti said:
In order to have the Eucharist a priest or bishop is necessary. -snip-

And so it comes to the crux of the matter.

simonthezealot · Jul 21, 2010

Christos Anesti said:
In order to have the Eucharist a priest or bishop is necessary.

You consider the consecrated Eucharist as Christ?

Christos Anesti · Jul 21, 2010

In order to have the Eucharist a priest or bishop is necessary. -snip- And so it comes to the crux of the matter

?

simonthezealot · Jul 21, 2010

Christos Anesti · Jul 21, 2010

You consider the consecrated Eucharist as Christ?

The Scriptures tell us that it is the Body and Blood of Christ [Matthew: 26:26 ,27]. By eating and drinking we participate in the Body and Blood of Christ [1 Cor 10:16 ]. Those who partake of it unworthily are guilty of profaning the Body and Blood of Christ [1 Cor 11:27 ]. People who do not discern the Body and Blood (ie those who reject that it is in fact His Body and Blood] eat and drink to their own judgment [1 Cor 11:29 ].

simonthezealot · Jul 21, 2010

Christos Anesti said:
The Scriptures tell us that it is the Body and Blood of Christ [Matthew: 26:26 ,27]. By eating and drinking we participate in the Body and Blood of Christ [1 Cor 10:16 ]. Those who partake of it unworthily are guilty of profaning the Body and Blood of Christ [1 Cor 11:27 ]. People who do not discern the Body and Blood (ie those who reject that it is in fact His Body and Blood] eat and drink to their own judgment[1 Cor 11:29 ].

So the priest stands as a barrier or insulation between you and the body and blood of Christ as per Orthodox teaching.

simonthezealot · Jul 21, 2010

Standing Up said:
Here's another view.

Standing Up said:
History of the Christian Church, Volume II: Ante-Nicene Christianity. A.D. 100-325. | Christian Classics Ethereal Library

found this paragraph quite interesting...

It is worthy of notice that a number of the most eminent church teachers of this period, Hermas, Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, Arnobius, and Lactantius, were either laymen, or at most only presbyters. Hermas, who wrote one of the most popular and authoritative books in the early church, was probably a layman; perhaps also the author of the homily which goes under the name of the Second Epistle of Clement of Rome, and has recently been discovered in full both in the original Greek and in a Syriac translation; for he seems to distinguish himself and his hearers from the presbyters

Sacerdotalism

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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MamaZ

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have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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