Sabbatical Year

[NannaNae]

Well, if you guys simply refuse to accept the true answer when it has been given, then what?
If one does not allow 4 to be the sum of 2 + 2, one no longer has hope to get the true answer.

It just genuinely amazes me that people would prefer speculation and unclarity and private interpretation (Jeremiah 17:9, 2 Peter 1:20) to the clear answers that have already been provided by God's chosen people.

The automatic, unconsidered, presumption that the Jewish tradition CANNOT be correct, evident so often among MG's, is a clear sign of lacking objectivity.

In addition to ignorance, it is or can be a sign of arrogance. You think you're going to come along after thousands of years and be "the one" who gets it right, or one of a handful of Messianic Gentiles to get it right ?

How can one statistically hope for that ?
How can one have such hubris ?

Don't you see that it (pessimistically) implies the truth has been completely lost for 2000 years, and that you are THE exception, the "re-discoverer", God's private Archaelogist ?
What makes you so much better than God's historical people ?
His first choice was wrong, so he had to wait until the 21st century for you to come along, so he could finally introduce truth into the world again ?


(I am not adressing any specific person)

you have to stop taking it personal...

you believe in those traditions ! you cherish those traditions.. .. you believe them without questioning, even this tradition of jubilee which by the way jews never really kept it fully .

these traditions and this religion which rabbi's used to accuse perfection with by the way.

so because of the history and some false accusations leveled against our Lord..
chances are we don't believe anything from anyone unless we can question it.
and Jesus knows that we have to question him.
He tells us in
in the old testament " come let us reason together " he loves us questioning him.. He loves a great fight actually .. He loved Moses and Abraham and David most and they fought him for their neighbors and other people and for lots of reason...
Only you don't question it or him .. because you are following a thing called the jewish religion and IT traditions, it's rabbi's ..

yes we trust the prophets of old not because they were jewish, but because sometimes we trust the god who spoke through them . but we would never trust them without him. see?


But we are not following what you follow.

chances are we won't ever follow anything ever blindly..
because yes we are rebellious people and WE KNOW IT>>
and chances are we won't follow anything blindly ever again.
so it seems you don't want us really following you with our questions..
so seems you don't like answering questions from a rebellious people !
so
Instead we follow a MAN/ GOD who is Jewish and some of us will celebrate him doing his APPOINTED feasts , and we will learn of him in his feast and we will question him on those feasts of his . and it all better add up... or there will be a fight.
a fight he wins..always!
but there will be a fight. and it is good to lose to him..
But it is easy to see in the whole old testaments and the new one..
He loves those who question him!
all the patriarchies did it .. He just loves answering questions. He loves his kids... He proved that when he walked the earth, He answered everyone of your rabbi questions and their traps.. with out balking one time.

Oh He only is A good Father. and he loves a good fight WITH HIS KIDS .

" come let us reason together though your sins be as scarlet they shall be made white as snow.."
how ?
because it is with every fight we pick with him IN THAT RELATIONSHIP is how he makes us new it is how he gives us his wisdom !

so we fight , we question, we learn at his feet.. no one else's.
and He loves that ! seems He loves being our dad!

 

[annier]

Well, if you guys simply refuse to accept the true answer when it has been given, then what?
If one does not allow 4 to be the sum of 2 + 2, one no longer has hope to get the true answer.

It just genuinely amazes me that people would prefer speculation and unclarity and private interpretation (Jeremiah 17:9, 2 Peter 1:20) to the clear answers that have already been provided by God's chosen people.

The automatic, unconsidered, presumption that the Jewish tradition CANNOT be correct, evident so often among MG's, is a clear sign of lacking objectivity.

In addition to ignorance, it is or can be a sign of arrogance. You think you're going to come along after thousands of years and be "the one" who gets it right, or one of a handful of Messianic Gentiles to get it right ?

How can one statistically hope for that ?
How can one have such hubris ?

Don't you see that it (pessimistically) implies the truth has been completely lost for 2000 years, and that you are THE exception, the "re-discoverer", God's private Archaelogist ?
What makes you so much better than God's historical people ?
His first choice was wrong, so he had to wait until the 21st century for you to come along, so he could finally introduce truth into the world again ?


(I am not adressing any specific person)

You speak as though there is a distinct difference between Gentile and Jew concerning the rabbinic authority in Messianic Judaism. This is not true. Many Messianic Jews reject Rabbinic authority, and many Gentiles accept Jewish authority. You are creating a false dichotomy here.

 

[rick357]

you have to stop taking it personal...

you believe in those traditions ! you cherish those traditions.. .. you believe them without questioning, even this tradition of jubilee which by the way jews never really kept it fully .

these traditions and this religion which rabbi's used to accuse perfection with by the way.

so because of the history and some false accusations leveled against our Lord..
chances are we don't believe anything from anyone unless we can question it.
and Jesus knows that we have to question him.
He tells us in
in the old testament " come let us reason together " he loves us questioning him.. He loves a great fight actually .. He loved Moses and Abraham and David most and they fought him for their neighbors and other people and for lots of reason...
Only you don't question it or him .. because you are following a thing called the jewish religion and IT traditions, it's rabbi's ..

yes we trust the prophets of old not because they were jewish, but because sometimes we trust the god who spoke through them . but we would never trust them without him. see?

But we are not following what you follow.

chances are we won't ever follow anything ever blindly..
because yes we are rebellious people and WE KNOW IT>>
and chances are we won't follow anything blindly ever again.
so it seems you don't want us really following you with our questions..
so seems you don't like answering questions from a rebellious people !
so
Instead we follow a MAN/ GOD who is Jewish and some of us will celebrate him doing his APPOINTED feasts , and we will learn of him in his feast and we will question him on those feasts of his . and it all better add up... or there will be a fight.
a fight he wins..always!
but there will be a fight. and it is good to lose to him..
But it is easy to see in the whole old testaments and the new one..
He loves those who question him!
all the patriarchies did it .. He just loves answering questions. He loves his kids... He proved that when he walked the earth, He answered everyone of your rabbi questions and their traps.. with out balking one time.

Oh He only is A good Father. and he loves a good fight WITH HIS KIDS .

" come let us reason together though your sins be as scarlet they shall be made white as snow.."
how ?
because it is with every fight we pick with him IN THAT RELATIONSHIP is how he makes us new it is how he gives us his wisdom !

so we fight , we question, we learn at his feet.. no one else's.
and He loves that ! seems He loves being our dad!

an ugly truth does is better than a beautiful lie

 

[Hoshiyya]

You speak as though there is a distinct difference between Gentile and Jew concerning the rabbinic authority in Messianic Judaism. This is not true. Many Messianic Jews reject Rabbinic authority, and many Gentiles accept Jewish authority. You are creating a false dichotomy here.

There is indeed a distinct difference between the calendar used by Orthodox Judaism and the "Enochic calendar" and other such inventions that float around among the MG.

As for the definitions of MG and MJ, I have clarified what I mean by these terms elsewhere, and really, word-play and semanticism is not something that interests me. Don't let words and semanticism problematize understanding.

 

[Hoshiyya]

an ugly truth does is better than a beautiful lie

Amen, Amen !

 

[NannaNae]

an ugly truth does is better than a beautiful lie

sorry , but what does this mean?

so ( in your opinion ) who 's truth is ugly and who's truth is beautiful?
because Jesus is beautiful and wonderful and he is truth everything else is a lie... so I don't get what you are saying ?

 

[rick357]

sorry , but what does this mean?

so ( in your opinion ) who 's truth is ugly and who's truth is beautiful?
because Jesus is beautiful and wonderful and he is truth everything else is a lie... so I don't get what you are saying ?

It is in referance to your post about us fighting against Him at times and his forbearance to lead us to truth....as to the calander discussion I am not educated enough to comment. So it is an ugly truth that we at times oppose our own Father.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

You speak as though there is a distinct difference between Gentile and Jew concerning the rabbinic authority in Messianic Judaism

There is no such thing as rabbinic authority in Messianic Judaism.

Who?

Where?

What?

I suppose there are people who give their authority over to somebody and then call them authorities, but I don't have authorities.

 

[Hoshiyya]

sorry , but what does this mean?

so ( in your opinion ) who 's truth is ugly and who's truth is beautiful?
because Jesus is beautiful and wonderful and he is truth everything else is a lie... so I don't get what you are saying ?

Do you think the Shoa (holocaust) was beautiful? Or a lie? (I know you don't.)
It happened, and it was ugly. Sometimes the truth is what is is.

We don't judge what is truth aesthetically. Truth is truth even if it is or appears ugly.

 

[NannaNae]

It is in referance to your post about us fighting against Him at times and his forbearance to lead us to truth....as to the calander discussion I am not educated enough to comment. So it is an ugly truth that we at times oppose our own Father.

no I am sure it is not ugly , it is a relationship.. you fight with family..and you usually only fight with family...
unless your drunk or something to make you bold and stupid...
it is not family if you aren't willing to fight about somethings.

you know my grandson came to me and talked about his mom and dad had a fight and it bothered him and he was crying . I told him as long as they are fighting they will work it out, and I told him fighting was a good thing.. ... it is when they stop fighting and stop talking that you should worry.
I asked him "beside your mom and dad, who do you love most" and he said "his brother" and I then asked him "who do you fight with most" .. and he said "my brother.."

because the truth is you know a marriage is over when both parties are no longer willing to argue because they have lost the desire to understand and be understood.
so at the very heart of a real relationship/ commitment is that willingness to related how ever needed to try and understand each other.

maybe Jesus tells some people " i never knew you " because they didn't want to know him and they didn't want to be known by him and weren't willing to put into a relationship with him that much effort or that much energy .

maybe They just wanted to be white washed to feel better about themselves .. or for him to put his seal of approval on everything they do and or think.
you know a gold star by their name.
but they did not want a relationship maybe because that takes so much effort and or real guts and lots of time and energy to maintain.

but A real relationship of any kind is an awesome , beautiful and probably rare thing. it might look ugly to outsiders sometimes.. but it is a good thing.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I never knew you.

Jesus is the word made flesh, to know the law is to know Jesus.

Those who practice lawlessness do not know Jesus because of their rejection of the law.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

 

[Hoshiyya]

I never knew you.

Jesus is the word made flesh, to know the law is to know Jesus.

Those who practice lawlessness do not know Jesus because of their rejection of the law.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Amen, brother !

 

[NannaNae]

Do you think the Shoa (holocaust) was beautiful? Or a lie? (I know you don't.)
It happened, and it was ugly. Sometimes the truth is what is is.

We don't judge what is truth aesthetically. Truth is truth even if it is or appears ugly.

and you are going to beat me up with hitler really..
you never knew me..and probably never will..

 

[rick357]

I never knew you.

Jesus is the word made flesh, to know the law is to know Jesus.

Those who practice lawlessness do not know Jesus because of their rejection of the law.

22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

When we know Yeshua as one in us through us and with us the law is written on our heart and mind....this is the only way to true obediance to be the law....if I know the law says no adultry yet I desire my neighbors wife...I dont act on it but...this is like holding ones breath...it is trying not to do what comes natural...but Yeshua changes our nature without him we will always be lawless....but from faith to faith the righteousness of Messiah is revealed in us

 

[Hoshiyya]

and you are going to beat me up with hitler really..
you never knew me..and probably never will..

Three points.

1. I did the exact opposite of "beating" you, and you know it. This is the point I made:

2. 'We don't judge what is truth aesthetically. Truth is truth even if it is or appears ugly.'

3. I see you like to use "smileys" in a sarcastic way. I advise that this is impractical and unnecessary.

 

[Hoshiyya]

When we know Yeshua as one in us through us and with us the law is written on our heart and mind....this is the only way to true obediance to be the law....if I know the law says no adultry yet I desire my neighbors wife...I dont act on it but...this is like holding ones breath...it is trying not to do what comes natural...but Yeshua changes our nature without him we will always be lawless....but from faith to faith the righteousness of Messiah is revealed in us

Yes, and when it comes to putting the same laws into practice, including calendrical laws, there is a need for context and guidance.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

When we know Yeshua as one in us through us and with us the law is written on our heart and mind....this is the only way to true obediance to be the law....if I know the law says no adultry yet I desire my neighbors wife...I dont act on it but...this is like holding ones breath...it is trying not to do what comes natural...but Yeshua changes our nature without him we will always be lawless....but from faith to faith the righteousness of Messiah is revealed in us

Jesus came teaching the true secrets of the law, but in order to know his secrets, you have to study the law first.


1 Corinthians 9

8I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING." God is not concerned about oxen, is He? 10Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.…


We can only know the truth of law through the secrets that Jesus came showing, and each law should be studied and understood for what it is really showing.

The laws of Marriage and slavery are not laws of Physical marriage or slavery,.

Knowing Jesus is knowing those laws and what they really mean, to become a slave of Christ in his house, to obtain the golden earring.

To become married to Jesus through the law is the point, and if a person is to commit adultery, he does this by rejecting the law.

The law is written on our hearts as far as knowing right from wrong and how we love people beyond measure, but to truly love Jesus is to seek his laws out, and to know them.

Seek ye first the kingdom of God and everything will be added to you, and this is done by study, by going from the milk to the meat in raising a child, and a Child MUST be raised.

 

[rick357]

Yes, and when it comes to putting the same laws into practice, including calendrical laws, there is a need for context and guidance.

Never said that

 

[rick357]

Jesus came teaching the true secrets of the law, but in order to know his secrets, you have to study the law first.

1 Corinthians 9

8I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, "YOU SHALL NOT MUZZLE THE OX WHILE HE IS THRESHING." God is not concerned about oxen, is He? 10Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops.…

We can only know the truth of law through the secrets that Jesus came showing, and each law should be studied and understood for what it is really showing.

The laws of Marriage and slavery are not laws of Physical marriage or slavery,.

Knowing Jesus is knowing those laws and what they really mean, to become a slave of Christ in his house, to obtain the golden earring.

To become married to Jesus through the law is the point, and if a person is to commit adultery, he does this by rejecting the law.

The law is written on our hearts as far as knowing right from wrong and how we love people beyond measure, but to truly love Jesus is to seek his laws out, and to know them.

Seek ye first the kingdom of God and everything will be added to you, and this is done by study, by going from the milk to the meat in raising a child, and a Child MUST be raised.

I would hope you know I agree with all of this

 

[Hoshiyya]

Never said that

Well there is no way of doing it otherwise.

By the way, it sounds like you're saying we literally should NOT want context or understanding.