Sabbath?

tzadik said:

Was Paul being redundant? (Acts 21:24)

Have you ever asked yourself why Paul completed his Nazarite vow according to Numbers 6 by offering a sacrifice and paying for the sacrifice of the other men who did the vow?

FYI: the 'it was a transitional period' and paul was just being a chameleon and 'faking it' to win others to Christ theory is completely bogus.

If something is of God, you do it, without caring about men. If it's not of God, you don't do it, for it would be a sin.

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It is explained in the text I do believe.

bugkiller

tzadik said:

I do not disagree with Paul.
You are misunderstanding me.

Yeshua believed and taught about things that agreed with the Torah and the Prophets. Anything that did not agree with the Torah and the Prophets, Messiah would not teach or believe. (Deuteronomy 13)

Paul believed and taught about things that agreed with the Torah and the Prophets. Therefore anything that He taught must agree with the Torah and the Prophets.

The Bereans believed and received everything that agreed with the Torah and the Prophets. Therefore anything that did not agree with the Torah and the prophets could not be received as truth.

We can also deduce (since there was no "NT" in the "NT" --wasn't canonized until 2nd century at the earliest), that all believers in the Scriptures believed and lived according to the Torah and the Prophets.

Conclusion: any teaching that you are purporting must agree with the Torah and the Prophets. If you say "the Torah of God is no longer applicable in the life of the believer", you must be able to show me this in the Torah and the Prophets. (I'd be more than happy to provide you with hundreds of passages that teach the opposite)

If you somehow interpret Paul to teach that "the Torah is no longer applicable" you are misinterpreting his words (just like Peter said many would) because what we DO know from his own words is that he did not believe in anything that did not agree with the Torah and the prophets. It's a fool proof theory.

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Does this disagree with anything found in the OT?
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.


Does it disagree with what Jesus taught. Remember John one of the 12 disciples of Jesus Christ said - For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Does it disagree with - For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

What covenant/testament in the OT does one find the remission of sins? This is not the mere forgiveness of sins. This is no putting off for a year at a time either.

bugkiller

mrs94 said:

No, I'm saying that per Deut 13, if Paul contradicted the Torah, the Bereans would not have listened to him. Yet, not one of you can use the same scriptures the Bereans used to support what you believe Paul was saying.

I've tried to discuss what Yeshua said, but His Words, somehow, get swept away into some interpretation that is consistent with what you guys think Paul taught. I've discussed Paul's words and then get told that he was doing what he was doing to appease the state....or other nonsense like that.

It's kind of hard to debate when those you are debating aren't interested in truth but only proving their point and making sure they know how to twist words and situations to do that. To which, this is tiring for me....so, I shall decrease and find something more productive to do with my time.....like, actually studying Torah and how Yeshua gospel accounts explained and expounded on that! Besides, I am really excited and have to prepare to begin celebrating Feasts and Festivals that mean something and aren't based on Pagan histories and traditions!

Shalom!

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Did Yeshua teach the law? No! Did Jesus (pardon me) Yeshua even bring the law? No per a personal disciple of Jesus - For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Shalom with a friendly and an invite to come back soon.

bugkiller

bugkiller said:

Did Yeshua teach the law? No!

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False.
"In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets. - Matthew 7:12

"And He said to him, "you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 22:37-40

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others." - Matthew 23:23

"How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." - Matthew 12:12

""But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail." - Luke 16:17

Messiah was the best Torah teacher that has ever lived.

bugkiller said:

Did Jesus (pardon me) Yeshua even bring the law? No

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Not sure what your questions means? Did He bring the Law, during His 33 year ministry? Did He as God bring the Law? absolutely.
Are you looking forward to this?

"Pay attention to Me, O My people, And give ear to Me, O My nation;
For a law will go forth from Me, And I will set My justice for a light of the peoples. "My righteousness is near, My salvation has gone forth, And My arms will judge the peoples; The coastlands will wait for Me, And for My arm they will wait expectantly. - Isaiah 51:4-5

tzadik said:

False.
"In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets. - Matthew 7:12

"And He said to him, "you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 22:37-40

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the Law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others." - Matthew 23:23

"How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." - Matthew 12:12

""But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one stroke of a letter of the Law to fail." - Luke 16:17

Messiah was the best Torah teacher that has ever lived.

Not sure what your questions means? Did He bring the Law, during His 33 year ministry? Did He as God bring the Law? absolutely.
Are you looking forward to this?

"Pay attention to Me, O My people, And give ear to Me, O My nation;
For a law will go forth from Me, And I will set My justice for a light of the peoples. "My righteousness is near, My salvation has gone forth, And My arms will judge the peoples; The coastlands will wait for Me, And for My arm they will wait expectantly. - Isaiah 51:4-5

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The Law was added temporarily to the Covenant with Abraham.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

Added, meaning it was a part of something greater.

Till, meaning it was temporary.

God's Law, however is eternal.

Abraham learned of His ways, His precepts and laws by walking in His presence.

... because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws." Genesis 26:5

Abraham first obeyed the voice of God to leave his land and go to a land that God would show Him.

Now the Lord had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you. Genesis 12:1

Without obeying this first, He never would hear the words -

1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. 2 And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly." Genesis 17:1-2

Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust's of the flesh.

The law of Moses make no provision for dealing with the lust of the flesh.

We are to walk in the newness of The Spirit.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

Notice here that it doesn't say -

Keep the Law of Moses...

That's because it is by the Spirit of Grace we can walk in the Light and it is by His Grace we are cleansed of all sin.

Not sin atoned for, but cleansed!

No Law of Moses anywhere in that scenario.


JLB

suz85 said:

Hello
I would like to hear peoples thoughts and views on sabbath observance. Currently I am attending a seventh day adventist church, but am unsure of the necessity to keep the sabbath. I have kept it for a few years now, but am starting to question why other denominations do not? I am in a situation that has made me question it, my college study makes it unavoidable to not do on the weekend, or the option is at home and possibly suffer association consequences later. So this is the dilemma that set me to search for the real answer and not just keep the sabbath because I have been told to and it was one of the commandments, didnt jesus come to free us of these?
confused i am
Any help or your own thoughts, opinions, experience etc would be appreciated

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It looks like this thread has been around for a long time (2010). For those of you who would like to see a pro Sabbath viewpoint I've started a thread titled, "Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian," which may address some of the questions you have about the Sabbath.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Icyspark said:

It looks like this thread has been around for a long time (2010). For those of you who would like to see a pro Sabbath viewpoint I've started a thread titled, "Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian," which may address some of the questions you have about the Sabbath.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

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Cute!
Resurrect a long dead thread just so you can advertise your own thread.

prodromos said:

Cute!
Resurrect a long dead thread just so you can advertise your own thread.

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Ha! Kinda, but not really. I actually thought this one was still active but that's cuz I was checking out the threads with the most views. Then I saw the opening post and the question she asked and wanted to answer her question without reposting my entire comments here.

Take care and God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark