Sabbath?

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Apr 23, 2011

ricker said:
So this is speaking of pagan practices?

GE:

The 'translation' you are using ...

"16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

... is phony and fraudulent.

Here is an improvement ...

"16 Therefore (because Christ triumphed in death and resurrection verses 12-15)

do not you let yourselves be condemned / judged / victimised

by anyone (of the “world” of “philosophy” and “wisdom” and the “kingdom of darkness&#8221

in drinking and in eating (spiritually of the Bread and Water of LIFE Jesus Christ)

with regard to FEAST

whether of month’s (exceptional)

or of Sabbaths’ (regular occurrence)—

which things are but a shadow still of things-a-coming (for you)

namely the Body-of-Christ’s-Own :

LET NO MAN BEGUILE YOU OF YOUR REWARD …!

… holding to the HEAD (which is Christ) … HAVING NOURISHMENT MINISTERED … GROWING WITH THE GROWTH OF GOD!”

So you see this text is NOT AT ALL “speaking of pagan practices”; nor is it speaking of ‘ceremonial laws’. It speaks of the Freemen of the Lord Jesus Christ ‘FEASTING / CELEBRATING’ LIFE in Christ while as the Body of Christ, observing “SABBATHS”.

ricker · Apr 23, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

The 'translation' you are using ...

"16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

... is phony and fraudulent.

Here is an improvement ...

"16 Therefore (because Christ triumphed in death and resurrection verses 12-15)

do not you let yourselves be condemned / judged / victimised

by anyone (of the world of philosophy and wisdom and the kingdom of darkness)

in drinking and in eating (spiritually of the Bread and Water of LIFE Jesus Christ)

with regard to FEAST

whether of months (exceptional)

or of Sabbaths (regular occurrence)

which things are but a shadow still of things-a-coming (for you)

namely the Body-of-Christs-Own :

LET NO MAN BEGUILE YOU OF YOUR REWARD !

holding to the HEAD (which is Christ) HAVING NOURISHMENT MINISTERED GROWING WITH THE GROWTH OF GOD!

So you see this text is NOT AT ALL speaking of pagan practices; nor is it speaking of ceremonial laws. It speaks of the Freemen of the Lord Jesus Christ FEASTING / CELEBRATING LIFE in Christ while as the Body of Christ, observing SABBATHS.

Where do you get your "translation"?

from scratch · Apr 23, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

The 'translation' you are using ...

"16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

... is phony and fraudulent.

Here is an improvement ...

"16 Therefore (because Christ triumphed in death and resurrection verses 12-15)

do not you let yourselves be condemned / judged / victimised

by anyone (of the world of philosophy and wisdom and the kingdom of darkness)

in drinking and in eating (spiritually of the Bread and Water of LIFE Jesus Christ)

with regard to FEAST

whether of months (exceptional)

or of Sabbaths (regular occurrence)

which things are but a shadow still of things-a-coming (for you)

namely the Body-of-Christs-Own :

LET NO MAN BEGUILE YOU OF YOUR REWARD !

holding to the HEAD (which is Christ) HAVING NOURISHMENT MINISTERED GROWING WITH THE GROWTH OF GOD!

So you see this text is NOT AT ALL speaking of pagan practices; nor is it speaking of ceremonial laws. It speaks of the Freemen of the Lord Jesus Christ FEASTING / CELEBRATING LIFE in Christ while as the Body of Christ, observing SABBATHS.

Probably should also include or not observing sabbath days. I read let no one judge an individual whether or not the sabbath is observed.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Apr 23, 2011

ricker said:
Where do you get your "translation"?

GE:

Here ...

"16 Therefore (because Christ triumphed in death and resurrection verses 12-15) --- "oun" [Do you know of something else?]

do not you let yourselves be condemned / judged / victimised --- "meh humahs krinetoh"

by anyone (of the world of philosophy and wisdom and the kingdom of darkness) --- "tis ... tou kosmou k.t.l." [You want to hear more?]

in drinking and in eating (spiritually of the Bread and Water of LIFE Jesus Christ) --- "en brohsehi kai en posei"

with regard to FEAST --- "en merei heortehs"

whether of months (exceptional) --- "eh neomenias"

or of Sabbaths (regular occurrence) --- "eh sabbatohn"

which things are --- "ha estin"

but a shadow still --- "skia"

of things-a-coming (for you) --- "tohn mellontohn"

namely the Body-of-Christs-Own : --- "to de sohma tou Xhristou"

LET NO MAN BEGUILE YOU OF YOUR REWARD ! --- "mehdeis humahs katabrabeuetoh"

holding to the HEAD (which is Christ) --- "kratohn tehn kephalehn"

HAVING NOURISHMENT MINISTERED --- "epichohregoumenon"

GROWING WITH THE GROWTH OF GOD! --- "auksei tehn auksehsin tou Theou".

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Apr 23, 2011

Now which is the adulterated Word of God, and which of these two, the unadulterated?

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Apr 23, 2011

from scratch said:
Probably should also include or not observing sabbath days. I read let no one judge an individual whether or not the sabbath is observed.

GE:

Now I have shown you WHERE i 'get my translation from'.

Now you show me where you get yours from.

And, explain how for your ‘interpretation’, what Christ availed – verses 12-15 – has any bearing on what the Christians would or would not do? Or what they would be persecuted and judged for? It’s really silly.

I think you confuse Colossians 2 for Romans 14!

ricker · Apr 23, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

Here ...

"16 Therefore (because Christ triumphed in death and resurrection verses 12-15) --- "oun" [Do you know of something else?]

do not you let yourselves be condemned / judged / victimised --- "meh humahs krinetoh"

by anyone (of the world of philosophy and wisdom and the kingdom of darkness) --- "tis ... tou kosmou k.t.l." [You want to hear more?]

in drinking and in eating (spiritually of the Bread and Water of LIFE Jesus Christ) --- "en brohsehi kai en posei"

with regard to FEAST --- "en merei heortehs"

whether of months (exceptional) --- "eh neomenias"

or of Sabbaths (regular occurrence) --- "eh sabbatohn"

which things are --- "ha estin"

but a shadow still --- "skia"

of things-a-coming (for you) --- "tohn mellontohn"

namely the Body-of-Christs-Own : --- "to de sohma tou Xhristou"

LET NO MAN BEGUILE YOU OF YOUR REWARD ! --- "mehdeis humahs katabrabeuetoh"

holding to the HEAD (which is Christ) --- "kratohn tehn kephalehn"

HAVING NOURISHMENT MINISTERED --- "epichohregoumenon"

GROWING WITH THE GROWTH OF GOD! --- "auksei tehn auksehsin tou Theou".

Did you do the translation from the Greek yourself? Are the words in parentheses your private intepretation?

from scratch · Apr 23, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

Now I have shown you WHERE i 'get my translation from'.

Now you show me where you get yours from.

And, explain how for your interpretation, what Christ availed verses 12-15 has any bearing on what the Christians would or would not do? Or what they would be persecuted and judged for? Its really silly.

I think you confuse Colossians 2 for Romans 14!

So tell me how the verse is pro or con on the sabbath issue. I think it is completely neutral.

Maybe we chould get an English professor to explain English.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Apr 25, 2011

ricker said:
Did you do the translation from the Greek yourself? Are the words in parentheses your private intepretation?

GE:

You can check on my 'renderings' in any Greek Dictionary or NT Lexicon.
I recommend you check in both 'Bible' and 'secular' 'sources'. The more secular the better because then you know the meanings given are less biased.

Some 'translations' of mine above are from combinations of words, e.g., 'eh ... eh ... eh' --- 'whether ... either ... or'.

But please, see if you can find in the 'sources' you may use, if you can find ANY indication whatsoever of some of those terms and phrases found in the 'version' / 'paraphrase' or whatever that you presented!

This I tell you :you WILL NOT FIND ANY!

But most important, dear Ricker, decide for yourself FROM THE CONTEXT, constantly keeping in mind TWO things: the THEREFORE, oun verse 16 begins with, and the IN CHRIST AND WITH CHRIST BEFORE IT in verses 12 to 15!!

Let's hear from you again, please.

GE

PS

O yes, I forgot to mention, Do consult and analyse the various older and newer 'translations' of this Scripture and notice the TREND of the CHANGES as they appear in newer and newer renderings. It TELLS ITS OWN STORY, loud and clear. The day of judgment shall recall my words to you today.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · Apr 25, 2011

from scratch said:
So tell me how the verse is pro or con on the sabbath issue. I think it is completely neutral.

Maybe we chould get an English professor to explain English.

GE:

Paul declares you WRONG several times. In 2:2a already; and again in verse 18; then much earlier in the letter, "To the SAINTS IN CHRIST ... We heard of your FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS ... as it is IN ALL THE WORLD and bringeth forth FRUIT ... INCREASING in the knowledge of God ..." THE WHOLE OF THE LETTER is positively FOR and CONDONING the Colossian Church.

They are ENCOURAGED by Paul and NEVER reprimanded, though he warned them against "the KINGDOM OF DARKNESS" and the "world" of "philosophy" and "wisdom" in "FALSE humility" and FLESHLY "SEVERITY against the body" - asceticism - from _OUTSIDE_ the Church and contra / against "The Body of Christ's Own" the most beautiful name given to the Church of Jesus Christ.

Neutrality? You have no inkling of what this Letter is about! 2:19 tells you what it really is about!

visionary · Jul 27, 2011

Frogster said:
visionary said:

I am in the Lord's kingdom... Got in passed the gate.. yeah.. even the stranger is invited to keep it...

Click to expand...

were invited, that deal ended. You are SUPPOSED TO BE of Abraham now, who had ye not sabbath, an historic event happened, the seed came.

I thought you support a futuristic temple, that does not allow gentiles?

Ez 44:9 Thus says the Lord God: No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the people of Israel, shall enter my sanctuary.

I underlined the important part of the verse you quoted.

visionary · Jul 27, 2011

Let no bother you about how to keep the feasts, sabbaths, cause they are the shadow/rehearsals/memorials.. which is the body of Christ.

ricker · Jul 30, 2011

visionary said:
Let no bother you about how to keep the feasts, sabbaths, cause they are the shadow/rehearsals/memorials.. which is the body of Christ.

These sabbaths and feasts must be pretty important considering it really doesn't matter how they are kept.

visionary · Jul 30, 2011

ricker said:
These sabbaths and feasts must be pretty important considering it really doesn't matter how they are kept.

Traditions are not set in stone..... so let's not get panty wad over the details.. relax and enjoy the Lord's appointed times.. learn from Him.. and rest easy in His blessings and sanctification He has put into these set-aside times for His anointing.

from scratch · Jul 31, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

The 'translation' you are using ...

"16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

... is phony and fraudulent.

Here is an improvement ...

"16 Therefore (because Christ triumphed in death and resurrection verses 12-15)

do not you let yourselves be condemned / judged / victimised

by anyone (of the “world” of “philosophy” and “wisdom” and the “kingdom of darkness&#8221

in drinking and in eating (spiritually of the Bread and Water of LIFE Jesus Christ)

with regard to FEAST

whether of month’s (exceptional)

or of Sabbaths’ (regular occurrence)—

which things are but a shadow still of things-a-coming (for you)

namely the Body-of-Christ’s-Own :

LET NO MAN BEGUILE YOU OF YOUR REWARD …!

… holding to the HEAD (which is Christ) … HAVING NOURISHMENT MINISTERED … GROWING WITH THE GROWTH OF GOD!”

So you see this text is NOT AT ALL “speaking of pagan practices”; nor is it speaking of ‘ceremonial laws’. It speaks of the Freemen of the Lord Jesus Christ ‘FEASTING / CELEBRATING’ LIFE in Christ while as the Body of Christ, observing “SABBATHS”.

Or not observing. I don;t think the Scripture implies how. I think it implies if you do or don't. Same as with the food issue. It isn't if you eat with a spoon or fork in the right or left hand.

from scratch · Jul 31, 2011

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
GE:

Now I have shown you WHERE i 'get my translation from'.

Now you show me where you get yours from.

And, explain how for your interpretation, what Christ availed verses 12-15 has any bearing on what the Christians would or would not do? Or what they would be persecuted and judged for? Its really silly.

I think you confuse Colossians 2 for Romans 14!

I don't think so. What does v16 say? It starts off with food and dirnk. So what is there to judge one over concerning those issues? Is it the eating or is it how one eats? Why wouldn't this apply to the rest of the sentence? It does say in respect of. It doesn't say anythaing about how.

As for Romans 14 let every one be persuaded in his own mind concerning both issues. It asks who are you to judge another man's servant?

ricker · Aug 2, 2011

visionary said:
Traditions are not set in stone..... so let's not get panty wad over the details.. relax and enjoy the Lord's appointed times.. learn from Him.. and rest easy in His blessings and sanctification He has put into these set-aside times for His anointing.

I don't appreciate your crudeness.

Frogster · Aug 2, 2011

visionary said:
Let no bother you about how to keep the feasts, sabbaths, cause they are the shadow/rehearsals/memorials.. which is the body of Christ.

Excuse me, but why would those pushing sabby, judge them for keeping it?

Paul was saying, don't let them judge you for NOT keeping it.

Frogster · Aug 2, 2011

visionary said:
Traditions are not set in stone..... so let's not get panty wad over the details.. relax and enjoy the Lord's appointed times.. learn from Him.. and rest easy in His blessings and sanctification He has put into these set-aside times for His anointing.

His sanctification, was to raise us up out of the flesh, as per Rom 6, and days, seasons or years, did didly doo in that process.

Scripture says it is a waste of time, in Gal 4:10.

Frogster · Aug 2, 2011

visionary said:
I underlined the important part of the verse you quoted.

It just goes to show, that some misunderstand that "prophecy".

The temple, the priesthood, the law, Judaism is all over now, we are sons by faith..

Sis, I will let you in on a little secret...shhhhh.....don't tell......shhhhhh, see if you see the Abrahamic promise hidden in there..shhhhhh

Eph 3:4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

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