Sabbath was given to Israel and not observed by early Christians

[fictitiousDinosaur]

The discusssions of the 7th-Day Sabbath are always based on the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment commemorating Creation. But always ignores the 2nd time 10 commandments are recorded in Deuteronomy 5 where Sabbath observance is commanded of Isreal to commemorate the Lord bringing them out of Egyptian bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15). Does this not imply that the Sabbath was an Israelite commandment? Mosaic Laws dealing with the Sabbath demanded death to the Sabbath-breaker. So how do SDA's build a doctrine of Sabbath observance when it was clearly intended for pre-Messianic Isreal? If the 4th commandent as recorded in Exodus is critical to SDA salvation, why is Sabbath observance requirement NEVER recorded in NT after Christ left the earth?

 

[NBB]

The discusssions of the 7th-Day Sabbath are always based on the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment commemorating Creation. But always ignores the 2nd time 10 commandments are recorded in Deuteronomy 5 where Sabbath observance is commanded of Isreal to commemorate the Lord bringing them out of Egyptian bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15). Does this not imply that the Sabbath was an Israelite commandment? Mosaic Laws dealing with the Sabbath demanded death to the Sabbath-breaker. So how do SDA's build a doctrine of Sabbath observance when it was clearly intended for pre-Messianic Isreal? If the 4th commandent as recorded in Exodus is critical to SDA salvation, why is Sabbath observance requirement NEVER recorded in NT after Christ left the earth?

If it was a salvation issue, there would be a mention in the letters or something.
But we get: ´if one esteems one day above the other, each one do according to your conscience' and 'nobody judge you about sabbath days and those things etc.'

I'm not trying to be disrepectful that this is the subforum for adventist but... my mother actually goes to 2 churches, one pentecostal, and the other SDA. She enjoys the company that brings, etc. but she don't adhere to sabbath keeping being a commandment or salvation issue.

 

[JackRT]

The discusssions of the 7th-Day Sabbath are always based on the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment commemorating Creation. But always ignores the 2nd time 10 commandments are recorded in Deuteronomy 5 where Sabbath observance is commanded of Isreal to commemorate the Lord bringing them out of Egyptian bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15). Does this not imply that the Sabbath was an Israelite commandment? Mosaic Laws dealing with the Sabbath demanded death to the Sabbath-breaker. So how do SDA's build a doctrine of Sabbath observance when it was clearly intended for pre-Messianic Isreal? If the 4th commandent as recorded in Exodus is critical to SDA salvation, why is Sabbath observance requirement NEVER recorded in NT after Christ left the earth?

You have ignored completely the third and earliest version of the 10 commandments in Exodus 34. This is also the only of the three versions to self identify as "the ten commandments". These three versions were written and edited by different authors of a time spread of almost four centuries.

The early Christian Church was originally no more than another branch of Judaism. They worshipped in temple and synagogue with their Jewish brothers and sisters. In some rare cases, they constituted the majority and were able to control the order of service, readings and such. However, in most cases they were a minority and could not insist on their own readings or rituals. The custom arose that these Jewish-Christians would meet again on the day (our Sunday) following the Sabbath for a service on their own. Tensions rose within the Jewish community until about AD90 when the rabbinical council of Jamniah decided upon the scriptures that would be permissible for use in synagogue services. This effectively ended Christian participation in Sabbath synagogue worship. They did however in most cases continue the tradition of the Sunday service which became known as "the Lord's Day". This eventually became the norm and was in fact made law by Constantine. In due course theology was invented to justify the change.

 

[fictitiousDinosaur]

These three versions were written and edited by different authors of a time spread of almost four centuries./QUOTE]

What? All Biblical scholars and the Jews (Pentateuch, Torah or Books of Moses) recognize Moses as the author of the first 5 books of the Bible. What do you mean "different authors.. spread of almost four centuries"? Source please?

 

[fictitiousDinosaur]

Exodus 34 is quite different from other two versions. Yet God told Moses to "hew two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest." Exodus 34 was supposed to be the same words as given on first tablets of stone.

The Sabbath commandment in Exodus 34 deals specifically with"Feast of unleavened bread" once again commemorating escape from Egypt. Nothing about CREATION.
Conflicting versions of 10 commandments, particularly the "4th commandment" so integral to SDA doctrine.

 

[Kaon]

The discusssions of the 7th-Day Sabbath are always based on the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment commemorating Creation. But always ignores the 2nd time 10 commandments are recorded in Deuteronomy 5 where Sabbath observance is commanded of Isreal to commemorate the Lord bringing them out of Egyptian bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15). Does this not imply that the Sabbath was an Israelite commandment? Mosaic Laws dealing with the Sabbath demanded death to the Sabbath-breaker. So how do SDA's build a doctrine of Sabbath observance when it was clearly intended for pre-Messianic Isreal? If the 4th commandent as recorded in Exodus is critical to SDA salvation, why is Sabbath observance requirement NEVER recorded in NT after Christ left the earth?

Should there be a difference between Hebrews and Christians?

In other words, what would you consider the faith of Peter?

 

[JackRT]

What? All Biblical scholars and the Jews (Pentateuch, Torah or Books of Moses) recognize Moses as the author of the first 5 books of the Bible. What do you mean "different authors.. spread of almost four centuries"? Source please?

Most modern bible scholars believe that Moses did not write the Torah. Based on their quite different writing styles and use of vocabulary, at least five authors (J,E,P,D and R) have been tentatively identified . "J" used Jehovah exclusively for God and may have been a person, perhaps a woman, in the court of Solomon about 950 BC. “E” used Elohim for God and wrote in the Northern Kingdom about 200 years later. "P" was concerned primarily with ritual and law and were probably priests writing during the Exile. "D" wrote the entire book of Deuteronomy about 625 BC. "R" were the redactors or editors who cobbled it all together. This whole process took place over some 500 years. The type of scholarship that led to the above conclusion is known as "critical biblical scholarship". In this context the word "critical" carries a narrow meaning ---- analytical and objective and not necessarily literal. It does not imply that this scholarship regards the Bible in any sort of pejorative way.

Mosaic authorship of the Torah is certainly traditional but is in my opinion completely untenable.

 

[fictitiousDinosaur]

Should there be a difference between Hebrews and Christians?

In other words, what would you consider the faith of Peter?

Peter was first a Jew and then a Christian when it comes to religion. Peter believed the gospel was meant for the Jews, objecting to preaching to Gentiles (ignoring Christ's gospel commission to go to all the world; every nation, tongue and people). He was given a vision to clear up his misunderstanding (Acts 10). Peter died for his Christian identification, insisting he be crucified upside-down (head down) in his respect for Christ's crucifixion.

 

[Kaon]

Peter was first a Jew and then a Christian when it comes to religion. Peter believed the gospel was meant for the Jews, objecting to preaching to Gentiles (ignoring Christ's gospel commission to go to all the world; every nation, tongue and people). He was given a vision to clear up his misunderstanding (Acts 10). Peter died for his Christian identification, insisting he be crucified upside-down (head down) in his respect for Christ's crucifixion.

Is there a difference between an Hebrew, and a Christian to the Most High God - considering the prophecy of the Redeemer was heavily preached by the patriarchs? (Hint: Acts 10.)

Follow up: What is expected of the Child of the Most High God?

 

[BobRyan]

The discusssions of the 7th-Day Sabbath are always based on the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment commemorating Creation.

True.

And it focuses on the fact that the Sabbath commandment in Exodus 20:11 points directly to the Sabbath being instituted in Genesis 2:1-4 saying "for in six days the Lord made...there for the LORD blessed the Sabbath".

So how interesting it is that in Exodus 16 - God reminds them "Tomorrow is the Sabbath".

But always ignores the 2nd time 10 commandments are recorded in Deuteronomy 5

Since Deut 5 starts off by saying in essence "remember the TEN commandments as given 40 years ago at Sinai -- keep them".

You seem to be skipping details that deflate your point. Please consider the details.

Notice the focus in Deut 5 on the "40 years ago" event. Where it was "God speaking" not merely Moses recounting what they had seen 40 years ago.

Deut 5
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive. 4 The Lord talked with you face to face on the mountain from the midst of the fire. 5 I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up the mountain.

Notice that instead of saying "the two tables of stone are hereby obsoleted" the text of Deut 5 says.

22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Instead of "we now add more" or "we now obsolete them".

In Exodus 20 the "reason" for Sabbath is given "FOR in Six days the LORD MADE".

And in Deut 5 Moses does NOT revisionist-history the whole thing into -
Sabbath observance is commanded of Israel to commemorate the Lord bringing them out of Egyptian

Rather the text says God freed them so they have all the more reason to honor their Creator. By contrast PASSOVER actually commemorates the event of being freed from Egypt.

Details matter.

And in Exodus 20 -- ALL TEN of the Ten Commandments - including "Do not take God's name in vain" are prefaced with "I am the LORD who brought you out of Egypt" -- so it is not just the 4th commandment but ALL TEN that are prefaced with that statement.

Does this not imply that the Sabbath was an Israelite commandment?

Not any more than the NEW Covenant in Jer 31:31-33 "Made with the house of Israel" means the New Covenant is only for Jews. Notice that in Hebrews 8:6-12 the New Covenant is UNCHANGED and still made "with the House of Israel and the house of Judah"

Hence in Isaiah 56:6-8 it is GENTILES that are specifically singled out for keep the 7th day Sabbath.
In Isaiah 66:23 it is "ALL mankind"
No wonder Christ said in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"

So how do SDA's build a doctrine of Sabbath observance when it was clearly intended for pre-Messianic Isreal?

The Westminster Confession of Faith, Sect 19, and the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19 and almost all Christian denominations (Both Catholic and Protestant) admit that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are for all Christians and in fact all mankind. .It is not just SDAs saying that. You have "drawn the line" in such a way as to oppose almost of all Christianity.

The "distinctive" between Sabbath keeping denominations such as SDAs and non-SDA groups is not that we accept all TEN as the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant and is the moral law of God applicable to all mankind (not just Christians)... rather the distinction is that Sabbath keeping denominations such as SDAs accept only a Biblical "unbent" and "unedited" Sabbath Commandment.

If the 4th commandent as recorded in Exodus is critical to SDA salvation, why is Sabbath observance requirement NEVER recorded in NT after Christ left the earth?

The 3rd commandment "Do not take God's name in vain" as recorded in Exodus 20 is never recorded in the NT... it is an interesting detail... that means nothing at all.

But the 4th commandment by contrast is quoted from several times in the NT.

 

[fictitiousDinosaur]

I believe there is a difference between Hebrew and Christianity. God made covenants with Abraham, Isaac and Israel. This "chosen people" were to be "the light to the pagan world", the vehicle through which the mercy and goodness of God would be demonstrated. The promised Messiah was to come through Judah (and He was). But Hebrews rejected the Lamb of God and broke their covenant repeatedly. The broken covenant means Hebrews are no longer God's chosen people and the blessings promised to descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Israel are null.

 

[BobRyan]

Peter was first a Jew and then a Christian when it comes to religion. Peter believed the gospel was meant for the Jews

Which of course it is since Jews are humans. And the Gospel is for mankind. "God so loved the WORLD that He gave" ... "not just Jews".

But you are engaged in a bit of "creative writing" when you claim Peter was "first a Jew and then a Christian" as if Peter thought that Jewish concerns deleted or subverted the Gospel.

, objecting to preaching to Gentiles (ignoring Christ's gospel commission to go to all the world; every nation, tongue and people). He was given a vision to clear up his misunderstanding (Acts 10). .

Peter's argument was not "being a jew is more important than the Gospel" any more than a Christian today would say "being a Christian is more important than the Gospel". He simply did not understand the scope of the Gospel and how it pertained to the "Holy nation, royal priesthood, chosen people" as compared to "God so loved the World". But that did not stop him from writing scripture inspired by God - and speaking the Truth via the Holy Spirit.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe there is a difference between Hebrew and Christianity.

Hebrews 3 quoting the OT does not say "Hebrews say" but rather "The Holy Spirit says"

The broken covenant means Hebrews are no longer God's chosen people and the blessings promised to descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Israel are null.

yes and no - read Romans 9 -- the church inherits those promises.

 

[BobRyan]

Most modern bible scholars believe that Moses did not write the Torah.

Those are the same guys that reject Genesis - reject God's creation account, reject the 7 day creation week referred to in "the legal code" of Exodus 20:11, reject the Bible account of the flood in Genesis 7 and 8, reject the Bible as a trusted historic account and leave the virgin birth, and bodily ascension of Christ in doubt.

Nothing "new" there. In fact most atheists would agree with them on those arguments.

I think this is where we can all agree that such things exist.

 

[BobRyan]

Exodus 34 is quite different from other two versions.

Exodus 34 is not written in stone, was not spoken by God to Israel and is not the Ten Commandments -- Which is true of all the rest of the Bible as well. No sense in conflating the two.

Yet God told Moses to "hew two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest." - which is a fact of what happened however the text of Exodus 34 was never in stone and all Jews know it... not just Christians.

Exodus 34 gives this fact "
And the Lord said to Moses, “Cut two tablets of stone like the first ones, and I will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke. 2 So be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning to Mount Sinai, and present yourself to Me there on the top of the mountain. 3 And no man shall come up with you, and let no man be seen throughout all the mountain; let neither flocks nor herds feed before that mountain.”
4 So he cut two tablets of stone like the first ones. Then Moses rose early in the morning and went up Mount Sinai, as the Lord had commanded him; and he took in his hand the two tablets of stone.

What the text does NOT say is that the rest of the chapter was also written in stone - we only see that the chapter reports that the same words were written AGAIN as had been on stone before.

"I will write on these tablets the words that were on the first tablets which you broke"

It is stating a fact but it not then saying that what follows "are new words NOT like the ones written before - and it is these that will now be written".. such creative writing efforts fail the test of scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

You have ignored completely the third and earliest version of the 10 commandments in Exodus 34. .

That is fiction since Ex 34 says the Ten commandments of Ex 20 come before Ex 34.

Bible details matter.

 

[fictitiousDinosaur]

So God lied in Exodus 34?

 

[BobRyan]

So God lied in Exodus 34?

Not at all. Rather the details I pointed out in Exodus 34 are still being ignored by you in your posts - the whole point was that paying attention to those details would clear up your misunderstanding of the chapter. They are details "in the chapter" itself.

 

[fictitiousDinosaur]

"But you are engaged in a bit of "creative writing" when you claim Peter was "first a Jew and then a Christian" as if Peter thought that Jewish concerns deleted or subverted the Gospel."

That is a ridiculous interpretation of what I wrote. I was speaking in order of time. Peter was a Jew before he met Christ and became a His disciple. So first a Jew then Christian. I meant nothing about belief priorities or whatever you seem to think I wrote. I guess SDAs haven't changed much over the years. Can't take a simple sentence for just what it says and attribute abstract meaning to it. Do the same with scripture. There must always be some deeper meaning to a simple statement of fact.

 

[mmksparbud]

The discusssions of the 7th-Day Sabbath are always based on the 10 commandments found in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment commemorating Creation. But always ignores the 2nd time 10 commandments are recorded in Deuteronomy 5 where Sabbath observance is commanded of Isreal to commemorate the Lord bringing them out of Egyptian bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15). Does this not imply that the Sabbath was an Israelite commandment? Mosaic Laws dealing with the Sabbath demanded death to the Sabbath-breaker. So how do SDA's build a doctrine of Sabbath observance when it was clearly intended for pre-Messianic Isreal? If the 4th commandent as recorded in Exodus is critical to SDA salvation, why is Sabbath observance requirement NEVER recorded in NT after Christ left the earth?

Duet. 5 is Moses speaking and reiterating some things. The 10 commandments, as written in Exod. were written by God in stone and placed in the ark. This was not another set of commandments that Moses was talking about. What God wrote, with His own hand, in stone--can not be changed by man. The Levitical laws, written down by Moses as dictated by God, were kept outside the ark. Those are the ones that were done away with.