Sabbath questions

[Iosias]

One hardcore fact that Vic noted was that once you entered God's rest you it was a place that "TODAY" we can enter because Jesus is the firstfruit. God rest is never a 24hr day because God said noone had enter His rest in the passed generations.

The problem with saying that Christ fulfills the sabbath of creation is that Scripture quite clearly teaches, "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God" (Hebrews 4:9). The future rest is heaven, the weekly sabbath continues until we reach it!

 

[VictorC]

Vic, the COI ate manna for 40yrs and kept sabbaths, so when God said remember the sabbath day, it was also continuum to what they had done for 40yrs.
Exd 16:35And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.

That is a very valid point, and I do thank you for correcting my glaring technical blunder but then again, wasn't that 40 years initiated just a month prior to Sinai?

 

[VictorC]

The problem with saying that Christ fulfills the sabbath of creation is that Scripture quite clearly teaches, "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God" (Hebrews 4:9). The future rest is heaven, the weekly sabbath continues until we reach it!

Try placing that in its context, rather than lifting it as a sound bite. The rest looked forward to was from when Joshua led Israel into the promised land, from the immediately previous verse. Obviously this isn't a reference to the weekly sabbath, since Israel was already observing that ordinance. The rest looked forward to was Jesus Christ.

 

[Iosias]

Try placing that in its context, rather than lifting it as a sound bite. The rest looked forward to was from when Joshua led Israel into the promised land, from the immediately previous verse. Obviously this isn't a reference to the weekly sabbath, since Israel was already observing that ordinance. The rest looked forward to was Jesus Christ.

The rest is the heavenly Canaan which we will enter into in the future. This future rest is prefigured in the weekly sabbath.

As a friend of mine notes,

...when Christ brings in a new creation, he does not abrogate the Sabbath. Rather, the date on which the new creation came, which was Easter Sunday with the Resurrection of Christ, that date changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday. It is a new creation. That is why we celebrate worship on Sunday. Christ brought in the new creation on a Sunday.With regard to the redemption reason for the Sabbath, Christ ushered in a new and greater Exodus. He has brought us out of our spiritual Egypt, just as God brought the Israelites out of their physical Egypt. Ours is the greater deliverance. Therefore, we have all the more reason to celebrate the Christian Sabbath, which is Sunday. We have all the more reason to cease from work, since Christ finished His work of creation with the resurrection. His resurrection means that there is a rest remaining for us. Paul says this in Hebrews 4:8ff. Because Jesus is our high priest who has entered into that rest, we should strive to enter that rest. What this means is final eternal rest.

In the background to this, it is necessary to remember the Sabbath structure of the OT. You have the Sabbath, which occurs on the seventh day. Then you have a Sabbatical year, which occurs in the seventh year. During that year, the land was to have rest, and slaves who were fellow Israelites were supposed to be released. Then you have the year of Jubilee, which was a seventh Sabbatical year. It was truly a Sabbath of Sabbaths. All land that had been sold to someone else was to be returned to the original owner. There is a telescoping of these Sabbaths from week to year to Jubilee. This points to the great Sabbath of eternity that still remains for the people of God. It is that Sabbath that Paul is talking about in Hebrews. If we are truly to be Sabbath keepers, then we need to have Jesus as our high priest, who has passed through the heavens and entered that rest. See, the reason we might not enter into that rest is our own sin (Hebrews 4:11). Only pure people may enter into that final rest. Jesus gives us His purity if we believe in him, so that we can enter that rest finally. So ultimately, the Sabbath command is a command to believe in Jesus Christ.

But if you already believe in Jesus Christ, then there are further applications. I have argued here that the force of the Fourth Commandment is still in effect in the NT era. In fact, we have more reason to keep the Christian Sabbath than the Israelites had to keep the OT Sabbath. Do you work on Sunday? This day was given to you for a blessing. It says in Genesis that God blessed the Sabbath day. That means that he blesses the one who holds it sacred. If you are tired and fatigued, one of the reasons may be that you are not observing the Sabbath properly. It is a day of rest. We are to stop from our employment. We are to bask in the glory of God in worship. We are to feed the hungry, visit the sick, the old and infirm, we are to have fellowship with one another. We are to read healthy spiritual books that we do not have time for on the other days of the week.


When we do these things, we are calling the Sabbath a delight. We are honoring it by keeping it holy, we remember the creation of the world, and the new creation brought about by Jesus. And we remember the great salvation that God has brought about, which it written in all the pages of Scripture. That is the relevance of the Sabbath for us. “This is the day that the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it.”
​

http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2006/02/28/remember-the-sabbath-day-2/

 

[VictorC]

This is really another debate; Christ has given to the Church teachers who have defended the faith once delivered to the saints against various errors. Through history doctrines have been developed that are founded upon Scripture. I believe that the confessions (for me, Westminster Standards) are a faithful summary and interpretation of the main tenents of the Word of God. The confessions are the roadmaps for the sometimes rugged biblical terrain. That is why I will use commentaries that teach the same doctrine as these, why? Because these interpret the Scriptures faithfully.

We have the Catholic Catechism, which asserts that the ten commandments have jurisdiction over the Gentiles, and yet they fail to cite the ordinance regarding graven images, and then disregard the sabbath when they assert that Sunday has somehow replaced it. Then they assume they can ordain ministerial "priests" under the order of Melchisedek, even though Hebrews 7 specifies it can't be delegated to mortals.
Then you have Martin Luther, who recognized what a bunch of hooey Catholicism imagined, and from his writings you will find that he recognizes that the covenant inscribed on stone tables has no part in Christianity, and that there is no such thing as a binding sabbath day within Christendom.
And then the material you quote from returns to the hooey the Catholics imagined, and you call that faithful to the Sciptures?

Matthew Henry butchers Daniel in order to insert his Miillerist influence, and turning to Jaimeson, Faucett, and Brown finds none of this influence and gives a vastly different commentary on the same book.

When you look at the landscape of assumptions and carnal nonsense that commentaries contain, it should not have taken you this long to realize that they are an unsuitable substitute for primary sources in the Bible itself. I can still recall picking up nearly any commentary published during the 1800's, when the uniform position heralded among them was that the passages of prophecy that pertain to Israel were given to "spiritual" Israel (the church), since it was deemed impossible for Israel to become a literal entity again.

That is the nature of commentaries.
They contradict themselves, and it is a logical necessity to determine that some of them also contradict Scripture, and all of them aren't to be trusted.
You need to show me primary sources from Scripture, instead of more hooey.

Actually they do the very opposite. But the argument is complex and detailed so I will sketch the argument here. I would sugest that you take sometime to actually read up on the issue. I know someone who argues that the Scriptures teach that Christians are not to celebrate the Lord's supper! His proof is 1 Corinthians 11:20, "When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper." The verse in contexts actually teaches the very opposite but anyway....Let us place the verses that Paul wrote in Colossians into a context.

"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ."
​

A similar verse can be found in Paul's epistle to the Romans,

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks."
​

There is then a context to Paul's saying these and the context is that of Jewish Christians demanding that Gentile Christians keep Jewish festivals new moons and sabbaths. That is the context. The question therefore is to ask what Paul meant by "a festival or a new moon or sabbaths".

The answer is found in the Old Testament. The easiest verse to see my point from is 2 Chronicles 8:13

"Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles."
​

Granted the order of the terms is reversed but that is not relevant. What is important is to note the link between the phrase and the Mosaic worship. The link is of course Leviticus 23. Here we find Moses declaring to the children of Israel the feasts of the LORD. We find the Passover and Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Firstfruits, the Feast of Weeks, the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. However the reference is far wider;

holyday; or feast, such as the feast of the passover, the feast of tabernacles, and the feast of Pentecost; which were three grand festivals, at which all the Jewish males were obliged to appear before the Lord; but were never binding upon the Gentiles, and were what the Christians under the Gospel dispensation had nothing to do with, and even believing Jews were freed from them, as having had their accomplishment in Christ; and therefore were not to be imposed upon them, or they condemned for the neglect of them.

the new moon; which the Jews were obliged to observe, by attending religious worship, and offering sacrifices; see

Numbers 28:11 "And in the beginnings of your months ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, seven lambs of the first year without spot"

2 Kings 4:23 "So he said, 'Why are you going to him today? It is neither the New Moon nor the Sabbath.' And she said, 'It is well.'"

the sabbath days, or "sabbaths"; meaning the jubilee sabbath, which was one year in fifty; and the sabbath of the land, which was one year in seven; and the seventh day sabbath, and some copies read in the singular number, "or of the sabbath"; which were all peculiar to the Jews, were never binding on the Gentiles, and to which believers in Christ, be they who they will, are by no means obliged; nor ought they to observe them, the one any more than the other; and should they be imposed upon them, they ought to reject them; and should they be judged, censured, and condemned, for so doing, they ought not to mind it.

Paul's reference then was not to a weekly sabbath of any sorts. Indeed, this had originated at creation, was kept by the patriarchs, was kept by the Israelites. The sabbaths, new moons, and the solemn feasts were added to the religious calendar of Israel. These were part of the ceremonial worship under the Old Covenant. These sabbaths, new moons, and the solemn feasts prefigured the work of Christ and so were fulfilled in him. That was why the Gentile Christians did not have to keep Jewish ceremonies. These ceremonies were temporary, part of the ceremonial law of Israel, the weekly sabbath is however moral just like marriage. Marriage and the sabbath are both creation ordinances. Both are moral, both continue until Christ comes again.

I'm completely amazed at how you drew this together, and then chose to shoot your foot off at the conclusion.
Yes, the Jewish (Israeli, actually) festivals and dietary ordinances have all been dismissed, consistent with the point that I made earlier.
Along with them is the unique Israeli ordinance of the sabbath on the weekly cycle. It was by assumption that you concluded that this one ceremonial ordinance was not subject to the disposition mandated on the entire first covenant - and there isn't anything in the texts cited that excludes the sabbath day from the common disposition. In fact, 'sabbaths' is always cited in the plural to include all sabbaths, regardless of the cycle they follow.

Now, in all actuality, the task set before you isn't complex, but rather very simple. I had asked you to find a sabbath prior to Moses. That isn't hard to do if the primary documentation contains any such ordinance. Merely citing the passage of Scripture is all that's required; something you have not done.

You havn't yet discovered yet that there isn't any such passage to draw on, and that's why I want you to perform the necessary exercise to your own satisfaction.

Victor

 

[VictorC]

The rest is the heavenly Canaan which we will enter into in the future.

Since you place that rest in the future tense, I believe you are at odds with the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, who identified his rest as a fait accompli in Hebrews 4:1-3

1: Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2: For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3: For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

The works necessary to enter into His rest (not ours) was completed on the seventh day, about 6000 years ago. We have been granted entrance based on faith in His sufficiency, and have ceased from our own futile works.

But you seem to prefer postulating the futility of a weekly rest, one that ceases on Sunday or Monday or whenever, and you need to appeal to salvation again every week.

Forgive me for laughing under my breath.

This future rest is prefigured in the weekly sabbath.

Was, you mean - unless you really are intent on abiding in Sinai instead of Jesus Christ. The 'prefigured' ordinances were called shadows because they had a purpose as a component of the schoolmaster to show the recipient their need for a Redeemer. That is the summary expressed in Galatians 3:21-25:

21: Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22: But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23: But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25: But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The law and the sabbath it was a part of isn't the sufficiency of our Redeemer.
And the law isn't the rest that has been provided for us, in lieu of our mortal works that aren't diddley squat before a holy God.

Victor

 

[Cribstyl]

The problem with saying that Christ fulfills the sabbath of creation is that Scripture quite clearly teaches, "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God" (Hebrews 4:9). The future rest is heaven, the weekly sabbath continues until we reach it!

The true revelation in Hebrew 4 is,....sabbath rest and God's rest is not the same. God's rest is what remains.

God's rest is "a cease" not a weekly rest, God was finished working, God ended His work (Gen 2:1-3) Can you prove otherwise?


The sabbath rest was a sign given to the COI only.
If the bible says 1place that sabbath is a sign, then sabbath signifies something.

Bible text warns christian not to judge a man concerning the day(s) that he worship God, this issue is strickly between that man and God.


YES, these text that you've made quotes from, does reference God's rest from creation as is written in Genesis 2:1-3, but it does not reference what is called a sabbath. A sabbath is proven as a day(s) given to man to observe.

Hbr 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Hbr 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
Hbr 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Hbr 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Hbr 4:5 And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Hbr 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hbr 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Hbr 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hbr 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
Hbr 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.​

 

[Adventtruth]

The rest is the heavenly Canaan which we will enter into in the future. This future rest is prefigured in the weekly sabbath.

As a friend of mine notes,

...when Christ brings in a new creation, he does not abrogate the Sabbath. Rather, the date on which the new creation came, which was Easter Sunday with the Resurrection of Christ, that date changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday.
​

Scripture please.

It is a new creation. That is why we celebrate worship on Sunday.

And this is why many call it the eighth day...but there is never a scriptual bases or reference for this.

Christ brought in the new creation on a Sunday.

Kindly provide scripture please.

With regard to the redemption reason for the Sabbath, Christ ushered in a new and greater Exodus. He has brought us out of our spiritual Egypt, just as God brought the Israelites out of their physical Egypt.

All the more to understand how the Old Covenant Sabbath pointed to Christ as its fulfillment.

Ours is the greater deliverance. Therefore, we have all the more reason to celebrate the Christian Sabbath, which is Sunday.

No Christ is. Not a day, and btw we do that daily...moment by moment, not once a week.

We have all the more reason to cease from work, since Christ finished His work of creation with the resurrection.

In Context the ceasing from work is the work of trying to save self.

His resurrection means that there is a rest remaining for us. Paul says this in Hebrews 4:8ff. Because Jesus is our high priest who has entered into that rest, we should strive to enter that rest. What this means is final eternal rest.

You are taking that passage out of context...its striving to trust by faith that one can enter rest.

In the background to this, it is necessary to remember the Sabbath structure of the OT. You have the Sabbath, which occurs on the seventh day. Then you have a Sabbatical year, which occurs in the seventh year. During that year, the land was to have rest, and slaves who were fellow Israelites were supposed to be released. Then you have the year of Jubilee, which was a seventh Sabbatical year. It was truly a Sabbath of Sabbaths. All land that had been sold to someone else was to be returned to the original owner. There is a telescoping of these Sabbaths from week to year to Jubilee. This points to the great Sabbath of eternity that still remains for the people of God. It is that Sabbath that Paul is talking about in Hebrews.

First off...any one who has studied biblical languages understand that Paul was not the author of Hebrews.

Second, you can't even keep or observe sabbath as it was intended, We have entered Sabbath Rest now by faith alone...we will enjoy its fulness in the New Earth but we have by faith entered our Rest. I hope you being a Calvinist are not making Sunday sacredness a matter of salvation.

If we are truly to be Sabbath keepers, then we need to have Jesus as our high priest, who has passed through the heavens and entered that rest.

I trust Him by faith alone...Do I qualify? Do I need to observe Sunday?

See, the reason we might not enter into that rest is our own sin (Hebrews 4:11). Only pure people may enter into that final rest. Jesus gives us His purity if we believe in him, so that we can enter that rest finally. So ultimately, the Sabbath command is a command to believe in Jesus Christ.

And when we believe by faith alone we have entered that rest by faith, not by observing a day.

But if you already believe in Jesus Christ, then there are further applications. I have argued here that the force of the Fourth Commandment is still in effect in the NT era.

Thats odd that you would seek to be under law. Do you also seek to keep all of the Mosaic law? How does Galatians 3:24, and 25 mesh with the Sabbath?

In fact, we have more reason to keep the Christian Sabbath than the Israelites had to keep the OT Sabbath. Do you work on Sunday? This day was given to you for a blessing.

Wheres the bible text that says this about sunday alone?

It says in Genesis that God blessed the Sabbath day. That means that he blesses the one who holds it sacred.

Thats a big spin you are adding to that passage. It says nothing about God blessing that one who holds it sacred in that passage.

If you are tired and fatigued, one of the reasons may be that you are not observing the Sabbath properly.

It could be that one has not had proper rest from physical labor. Can a person observe Thursday as their sabbath if they so choose?

[It is a day of rest. We are to stop from our employment. We are to bask in the glory of God in worship. We are to feed the hungry, visit the sick, the old and infirm, we are to have fellowship with one another. We are to read healthy spiritual books that we do not have time for on the other days of the week.

And what if I do none of those things...then what?

When we do these things, we are calling the Sabbath a delight. We are honoring it by keeping it holy, we remember the creation of the world, and the new creation brought about by Jesus. And we remember the great salvation that God has brought about, which it written in all the pages of Scripture. That is the relevance of the Sabbath for us. “This is the day that the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it.”

Sorry man, but I don't need to observe a day to remind me of what God has done for me. The Holy Spirit does that daily. You sound just like my Seventh Day Adventist friends who observe on Saturday. You have the same old failed argument.
​

AT

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

The answer to your question should become apparent when you appeal for forgiveness when you broke the sabbath ordinance last week, and then you come along and break the sabbath commandment this coming week, and the week after that, and continue to break the sabbath everyweek - just as you have always broken the sabbath. Just as Israel had always broken the sabbath, and just as Israel was unable to abide by the whole book of the law for as long as it had jurisdiction over its 1500 year long history. That invokes the curse mentioned in Galatians 3:10:
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

There was a time in Israel's history when God blessed her and allowed her to prosper. Then God withdrew his protection and delivered Israel into the hands of the Gentiles. What was it in Israel that had changed? Did the Israelites ever break the Law when they were blessed? Certainly, but in those days, when sin was discovered it was repented of and put away. Take David. He didn't rely on the Law to make him just before God:

"But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation."
Psalm 13:5

He knew he was a sinner, that he had broken God's Law, but it did not stop him from declaring repeatedly in Psalm 119 "How I love thy Law!" Not because he could keep it, but because he knew that it was righteous. Repentance does not mean admitting that you are a sinner, it means a godly sorrow for your sins, actually the New Testament word means to turn away from your sin and towards God. Is somebody who is truly remorseful for their sins going to say that they are free to sin as they please? Even if it were true? Or will he, to the best of his ability, put sinful habits out of his life, not in order to earn salvation, but because he hates sin? Without striving to keep the Law there is no repentance, and without repentance, no forgiveness. Grace is changed from from an offer to turn your own wickedness to a license to live however you please. Christ then becomes only a Savior from death, not a Savior from sin. Wanting eternal life is one thing. Being willing to be delivered from your sin is quite another.

23: But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24: Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25: But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

When you finish you studies, you are no longer under the schoolmaster's authority, but do you forget what your schoolmaster taught you? Or is the reason why you are no longer under your schoolmaster because you are expected to already know what he would have to teach you? Also, if the Gentiles were never under the Law, why does Paul assert that they (the church of Rome was Gentile) ever were under a schoolmaster?

This 'sabbath' was a one-time event. God had finished His work of creation, and did not return to it. He did not rest again on the 14th day, nor the 21st, 28th, etc.

So in the Fourth Commandment, when God said to rest on the seventh day, He was only talking about one particular seventh day, not every seventh day. To be consistent in your interpretation, that is what you would have to conclude.

God alone rested this day; Adam had no works to rest from, and he is completely absent from this account.

"And the LORD God took Adam, and put him in the garden of Eden to dress it and keep it."
Genesis 2:15

A principle for whom? Not gentiles but the Jews

"In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal. 3:28

Yes, the Jewish (Israeli, actually) festivals and dietary ordinances have all been dismissed, consistent with the point that I made earlier.

Typical to deride the feasts by calling them "Jewish" (implying that they are not Christian) when God states that they are His feasts.

"Speak to the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts."
Lev. 23:2

Try placing that in its context, rather than lifting it as a sound bite. The rest looked forward to was from when Joshua led Israel into the promised land, from the immediately previous verse. Obviously this isn't a reference to the weekly sabbath, since Israel was already observing that ordinance. The rest looked forward to was Jesus Christ.

Different kind of rest. The rest that was being spoken of earlier in Hebrews 4 was katapauo, which simply means a respite from labor. In verse 9 the word is sabbatismos, which a sabbath rest (derived from sabbaton, Greek for Sabbath). Why is it using a different word, one that suggests a holy day. The rest Christ gives to those who believe in Him is spoken of in many places in the New Testament, but it is not called sabbatismos.

It could be that one has not had proper rest from physical labor. Can a person observe Thursday as their sabbath if they so choose?

They could, if it was most convenient for them, but then what would that say about what priority God has in their life?

That is my appeal as well, that we accept the original wheel rather than use commentaries that are questionable, having been infected by traditions introduced by Catholicism, Millerism, and other various heresies.

Are your posts questionable, having been infected by dispensationalism and antinomianism? In criticizing Iosias for quoting the works of fallible men have you lost sight of your own fallibility?

I'll deal with the claim about the Sabbath being changed to Sunday in another post.

 

[Adventtruth]

There was a time in Israel's history when God blessed her and allowed her to prosper. Then God withdrew his protection and delivered Israel into the hands of the Gentiles. What was it in Israel that had changed? Did the Israelites ever break the Law when they were blessed? Certainly, but in those days, when sin was discovered it was repented of and put away. Take David. He didn't rely on the Law to make him just before God:

"But I have trusted in thy mercy; my heart shall rejoice in thy salvation."
Psalm 13:5

He knew he was a sinner, that he had broken God's Law, but it did not stop him from declaring repeatedly in Psalm 119 "How I love thy Law!" Not because he could keep it, but because he knew that it was righteous. Repentance does not mean admitting that you are a sinner, it means a godly sorrow for your sins, actually the New Testament word means to turn away from your sin and towards God. Is somebody who is truly remorseful for their sins going to say that they are free to sin as they please? Even if it were true? Or will he, to the best of his ability, put sinful habits out of his life, not in order to earn salvation, but because he hates sin? Without striving to keep the Law there is no repentance, and without repentance, no forgiveness. Grace is changed from from an offer to turn your own wickedness to a license to live however you please. Christ then becomes only a Savior from death, not a Savior from sin. Wanting eternal life is one thing. Being willing to be delivered from your sin is quite another.

But you fail to realize that being delivered from sin has taken place for the justified through faith in Christ life and blood. Tho we still sin in the flesh, God does not imput sin to those who trust by faith alone, thus we are already delievered from sins power, which is the law, through the Spirit. Sin and the Law are partners to distroy you. The law is Holy and righteous and good...it exposes you as a sinner. And if God sees you as a sinner then you are a dead man walking. The sting of death is sin.

(Rom 4:1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
(Rom 4:2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
(Rom 4:3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
(Rom 4:4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
(Rom 4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
(Rom 4:7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
(Rom 4:8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


(1Co 15:56) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
(1Co 15:57) But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

When you finish you studies, you are no longer under the schoolmaster's authority, but do you forget what your schoolmaster taught you? Or is the reason why you are no longer under your schoolmaster because you are expected to already know what he would have to teach you? Also, if the Gentiles were never under the Law, why does Paul assert that they (the church of Rome was Gentile) ever were under a schoolmaster?

You are no longer under the school master because the school master has been superceeded by the reality of Christ. The Holy Spirit is now to teach you and guide you into all truth. Your faith is in God alone not a list that passed away under the Old Covenant.

(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(Rom 8:3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So in the Fourth Commandment, when God said to rest on the seventh day, He was only talking about one particular seventh day, not every seventh day. To be consistent in your interpretation, that is what you would have to conclude.

No...we conclude that the sabbath with all of the Mosaic law has ended for the justified in Christ, Jesus. Your failed attemps to keep the sabbath only proves you are a sinner by works...seek to be Justified by Christ alone apart from works.

(Rom 3:26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(Rom 3:27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(Rom 3:28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

(Rom 7:1) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
(Rom 7:2) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
(Rom 7:3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
(Rom 7:4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
(Rom 7:5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

"And the LORD God took Adam, and put him in the garden of Eden to dress it and keep it.

"
Genesis 2:15

Mans work before the fall was not laborus. Sin caused man to sweat in labor.

(Gen 3:17) And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
(Gen 3:18) Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
(Gen 3:19) In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

"In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal. 3:28

Great idea and truth. But under the Old covenant, at the time of the Old Covenant, the wall had not been broken down between Jew and Gentile.

(Eph 2:11) Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
(Eph 2:12) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(Eph 2:13) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(Eph 2:14) For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
(Eph 2:15) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
(Eph 2:16) And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
(Eph 2:17) And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
(Eph 2:18) For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
(Eph 2:19) Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Typical to deride the feasts by calling them "Jewish" (implying that they are not Christian) when God states that they are His feasts.

"Speak to the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts."
Lev. 23:2

But you do understand Victors point don't you?

They could, if it was most convenient for them, but then what would that say about what priority God has in their life?

So does God command a certain day under the new covenant? Does God command any day under the new covenant? If so kindly show it to me please


AT

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

when Christ brings in a new creation, he does not abrogate the Sabbath. Rather, the date on which the new creation came, which was Easter Sunday with the Resurrection of Christ, that date changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday. It is a new creation. That is why we celebrate worship on Sunday. Christ brought in the new creation on a Sunday.

I'll deal with the false premise here. The Gospels do not say that Christ rose on the first day of the week, they say that Mary and Mary Magdalene came to the tomb at the crack of dawn on the first day of the week and found it empty.

Also:

"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whales belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Matt. 12:39-40

Being buried for three days and three nights (72 hours) would place the resurrection at the same time of day as his burial, i.e., just before sunset, on the Sabbath. Notice that being buried three days and three nights was the sign that Jesus was truly the Messiah, that he truly was the Savior of the world. You simply can't get three days and three nights from a Friday crucifixion to a Sunday resurrection.

Also, Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:56 state that the women had bought and prepared spices to anoint Jesus' body after he was crucified. That means there had to have been a working day between the crucifixion and the resurrection. At no time would the markets have been open between Friday sunset and Sunday sunrise.

So, in summary.

Tuesday:
Christ keeps the Passover with his disciples on evening of 14 Nisan.

Wednesday:
Christ crucified at noon on 14 Nisan, as foreshadowed by the killing of the Passover Lamb. He dies at 3PM. As sunset drew closer, the victims are taken down from the cross so as not to leave them hanging on 15 Nisan, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was a high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."
John 19:31

A "high" Sabbath means an annual Sabbath, as opposed to the weekly Sabbath.

Thursday:
15 Nisan, first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, also called "the day after the Day of Preparation. Regular work ceases.

Friday:
The high Sabbath is past. The women buy and prepare spices to anoint Christ's body.

"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him."
Mark 16:1

Saturday:
The women rest on the sabbath day after preparing the spices.
"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."
Luke 23:56

Note they kept the Sabbath after the crucifixion, on this side of the cross. So much for the claim that the Sabbath was abolished by the cross!

Christ resurrected just before sunset, fulfilling the sign of Jonah.

Sunday:
The women come to the tomb with the prepared spices and find him already risen.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'll deal with the false premise here. The Gospels do not say that Christ rose on the first day of the week, they say that Mary and Mary Magdalene came to the tomb at the crack of dawn on the first day of the week and found it empty.

Also:

"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whales belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Matt. 12:39-40

Being buried for three days and three nights (72 hours) would place the resurrection at the same time of day as his burial, i.e., just before sunset, on the Sabbath. Notice that being buried three days and three nights was the sign that Jesus was truly the Messiah, that he truly was the Savior of the world. You simply can't get three days and three nights from a Friday crucifixion to a Sunday resurrection.

Also, Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:56 state that the women had bought and prepared spices to anoint Jesus' body after he was crucified. That means there had to have been a working day between the crucifixion and the resurrection. At no time would the markets have been open between Friday sunset and Sunday sunrise.

So, in summary.

Tuesday:
Christ keeps the Passover with his disciples on evening of 14 Nisan.

Wednesday:
Christ crucified at noon on 14 Nisan, as foreshadowed by the killing of the Passover Lamb. He dies at 3PM. As sunset drew closer, the victims are taken down from the cross so as not to leave them hanging on 15 Nisan, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was a high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."
John 19:31

A "high" Sabbath means an annual Sabbath, as opposed to the weekly Sabbath.

Thursday:
15 Nisan, first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, also called "the day after the Day of Preparation. Regular work ceases.

Friday:
The high Sabbath is past. The women buy and prepare spices to anoint Christ's body.

"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him."
Mark 16:1

Saturday:
The women rest on the sabbath day after preparing the spices.
"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."
Luke 23:56

Note they kept the Sabbath after the crucifixion, on this side of the cross. So much for the claim that the Sabbath was abolished by the cross!

Christ resurrected just before sunset, fulfilling the sign of Jonah.

Sunday:
The women come to the tomb with the prepared spices and find him already risen.

Excellent post! John, in his gospel, provides a very complete and precise chronology that was either ignored or lost by later generations.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Actually, bbbbbb or whatever his name is made some very valid points that I would be curious to see your response to. I don't agree with bbbb's contention that the sabbath exists in the present-tense, but he is absolutely correct in pointing out that it was Israel who received the sabbath ordinance, and no one else.

Victor

Thank you, Victor. My name is David and I used to post as David01 until CF changed my password, forcing me to reregister. I decided to take on bbbbbbb, as in the sound created when one moves one's index finger across the lips while blowing.

I only believe that the sabbath exists today in the sense that there is a seventh day (Saturday) at the end of the week. Beyond that, if the Jews choose to observe it, it certainly does not affect their covenant standing before God, which can only come through entering the perfect rest of Messiah.

 

[Iosias]

I had asked you to find a sabbath prior to Moses.

Direct evidence
1. Genesis 2:1-3
2. Genesis 4:3

Prima facie evidence
1. Genesis 5:29
2. Genesis 7: 10
3. Genesis 8:10, 12
4. Genesis 29:27

 

[Iosias]

John MacArthur notes:

The chronological reckoning between John's gospel and the synoptics presents a challenge, especially in relation to the time of the Last Supper (13:2). While the synoptics portray the disciples and the Lord at the Last Supper as eating the Passover meal on Thursday evening (Nisan 14) and Jesus being crucified on Friday, John's gospel states that the Jews did not enter into the Praetorium "lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover" (18:28). So, the disciples had eaten the Passover on Thursday evening, but the Jews had not. In fact, John (19:14) states that Jesus' trial and crucifixion were on the day of Preparation for the Passover and not after the eating of the Passover, so that with the trial and crucifixion on Friday Christ was actually sacrificed at the same time the Passover lambs were being slain (19:14). The question is, "Why did the disciples eat the Passover meal on Thursday?"

The answer lies in a difference among the Jews in the way they reckoned the beginning and ending of days. From Josephus, the Mishna, and other ancient Jewish sources we learn that the Jews in northern Palestine calculated days from sunrise to sunrise. That area included the region of Galilee, where Jesus and all the disciples, except Judas, had grown up. Apparently most, if not all, of the Pharisees used that system of reckoning. But Jews in the southern part, which centered in Jerusalem, calculated days from sunset to sunset. Because all the priests necessarily lived in or near Jerusalem, as did most of the Sadducees, those groups followed the southern scheme.

That variation doubtlessly caused confusion at times, but it also had some practical benefits. During Passover time, for instance, it allowed for the feast to be celebrated legitimately on two adjoining days, thereby permitting the temple sacrifices to be made over a total period of four hours rather than two. That separation of days may also have had the effect of reducing both regional and religious clashes between the two groups.

On that basis the seeming contradictions in the gospel accounts are easily explained. Being Galileans, Jesus and His disciples considered Passover day to have started at sunrise on Thursday and to end at sunrise on Friday. The Jewish leaders who arrested and tried Jesus, being mostly priests and Sadducees, considered Passover day to begin at sunset on Thursday and end at sunset on Friday. By that variation, predetermined by God's sovereign provision, Jesus could thereby legitimately celebrate the last Passover meal with His disciples and yet still be sacrificed on Passover day.

​

See also "The Chronology of the Last Supper" by Barry D. Smith

 

[Adventtruth]

I'll deal with the false premise here. The Gospels do not say that Christ rose on the first day of the week, they say that Mary and Mary Magdalene came to the tomb at the crack of dawn on the first day of the week and found it empty.

Also:

"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whales belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Matt. 12:39-40

Being buried for three days and three nights (72 hours) would place the resurrection at the same time of day as his burial, i.e., just before sunset, on the Sabbath. Notice that being buried three days and three nights was the sign that Jesus was truly the Messiah, that he truly was the Savior of the world. You simply can't get three days and three nights from a Friday crucifixion to a Sunday resurrection.

Also, Mark 16:1 and Luke 23:56 state that the women had bought and prepared spices to anoint Jesus' body after he was crucified. That means there had to have been a working day between the crucifixion and the resurrection. At no time would the markets have been open between Friday sunset and Sunday sunrise.

So, in summary.

Tuesday:
Christ keeps the Passover with his disciples on evening of 14 Nisan.

Wednesday:
Christ crucified at noon on 14 Nisan, as foreshadowed by the killing of the Passover Lamb. He dies at 3PM. As sunset drew closer, the victims are taken down from the cross so as not to leave them hanging on 15 Nisan, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was a high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."
John 19:31

A "high" Sabbath means an annual Sabbath, as opposed to the weekly Sabbath.

Thursday:
15 Nisan, first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, also called "the day after the Day of Preparation. Regular work ceases.

Friday:
The high Sabbath is past. The women buy and prepare spices to anoint Christ's body.

"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him."
Mark 16:1

Saturday:
The women rest on the sabbath day after preparing the spices.
"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."
Luke 23:56

Note they kept the Sabbath after the crucifixion, on this side of the cross. So much for the claim that the Sabbath was abolished by the cross!

Christ resurrected just before sunset, fulfilling the sign of Jonah.

Sunday:
The women come to the tomb with the prepared spices and find him already risen.

My concern is not so much the sabbath command, but your underlining idea of the law. The sabbath was the fourth cammand of the ten commandments. Believers are now dead to the law through the body of Christ. We are not to follow after law to perform it, but to establish law through faith in Christ who has redeemed us from the curse of the law. The law was added to expose sin....its a testimony to the God who performed law perfectly for us that we could be slaves of righteousness not law. So if the Sabbath, which is the last day of the week is to be the celebration of the gentile, the scripture most certainly is silent on that point.

(Rom 7:4) Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

(Gal 3:10) For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them."
(Gal 3:11) Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."
(Gal 3:12) But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them."
(Gal 3:13) Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"--

(Rom 3:31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

(Rom 5:20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:


(Rom 8:3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


AT

 

[Adventtruth]

Thank you, Victor. My name is David and I used to post as David01 until CF changed my password, forcing me to reregister. I decided to take on bbbbbbb, as in the sound created when one moves one's index finger across the lips while blowing.

I only believe that the sabbath exists today in the sense that there is a seventh day (Saturday) at the end of the week. Beyond that, if the Jews choose to observe it, it certainly does not affect their covenant standing before God, which can only come through entering the perfect rest of Messiah.

I agree with you here. I do see a Sunday celebration for the church due to the resurrection of Christ, but to call it a transference of Sabbath from the last day of the week to the first day is not an idea I find in the bible. A Sunday celebration in honor of the finished works of God in Christ and the sacredness of the day is special to many people. And if one decides to keep the first day as if it was a Sunday Sabbath, is fine in my opinion, but lets not attach a legalistic lable on it and make it law for all people. Personally I believe one has to be fully convinced in his own mind of what they believe about the Sabbath. God desires mercy rather than sacrifice. How many of you would let your OX remain in a ditch on the Sabbath day and not dig it out?

AT

 

[VictorC]

Direct evidence
1. Genesis 2:1-3
2. Genesis 4:3

Prima facie evidence
1. Genesis 5:29
2. Genesis 7: 10
3. Genesis 8:10, 12
4. Genesis 29:27

I had dealt with Genesis 2:1-3 before, in my post submission to Him, and entering into His rest (not ours), where I made these comments:

Genesis 2:1-3
1: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Some notable observations:

• This 'sabbath' was a one-time event. God had finished His work of creation, and did not return to it. He did not rest again on the 14th day, nor the 21st, 28th, etc.
• God alone rested this day; Adam had no works to rest from, and he is completely absent from this account.
• It was the seventh day that was sanctified -set apart- and this one event stood apart in the history of creation as the model of God's rest that we would be invited to enter into by faith in His completed works.

Hebrews 4:1-6
1: Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2: For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3: For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4: For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5: And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6: Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief...

These words were addressed to those who had been living under a sabbath ordinance for 1500 years, and this text asserts they never entered into His - God's rest. The seventh day wasn't the weekly sabbath, but the one time that God rested, and never ended this finished rest that stood as the promise we may enter into.

Moving right along....

Genesis 4:3
And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

There is no sabbath here...

Genesis 5:29
And he called his name Noah, saying, This name shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

No sabbath here....

Genesis 7:10
And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

No sabbath here....

Genesis 8:10-12
10: And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
11: And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
12: And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

No sabbath here, either....

Genesis 29:27
Fulfill her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.

And there isn't any sabbath here, either.
Just the passage of time.
No sabbath rests are found anywhere in any of these passages, nor even hinted at.

It was a nice try, Iosias, but there isn't a sabbath observed by man anywhere prior to Moses.The sole example is the rest that hasn't ended that only God entered into. This eternal rest is what we are invited into, which has lasted 6000 years so far. It is His rest that has been provided, and we don't have anything we can add to it.

Victor

 

[VictorC]

Iosias, I had already mentioned to you that primary evidence is the material I prefer to work with, and the ramblings of these tainted authors is in places laughable. If you were to examine the various Gospel accounts and follow Mary as she is waiting until after the sabbath to procure spices for embalment (Luke 23:56) and then prepared them prior to the sabbath (Mark 16:11), you will discover that there were two sabbaths during this week. Jesus actually meant what He said by "so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" in Matthew 12:40. Mary was following both the annual sabbath of Passover and the weekly sabbath, and tracing backward will find the Passover Seder on Wednesday at the latest.

John MacArthur notes:

The chronological reckoning between John's gospel and the synoptics presents a challenge, especially in relation to the time of the Last Supper (13:2). While the synoptics portray the disciples and the Lord at the Last Supper as eating the Passover meal on Thursday evening (Nisan 14) and Jesus being crucified on Friday, John's gospel states that the Jews did not enter into the Praetorium "lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover" (18:28). So, the disciples had eaten the Passover on Thursday evening, but the Jews had not. In fact, John (19:14) states that Jesus' trial and crucifixion were on the day of Preparation for the Passover and not after the eating of the Passover, so that with the trial and crucifixion on Friday Christ was actually sacrificed at the same time the Passover lambs were being slain (19:14). The question is, "Why did the disciples eat the Passover meal on Thursday?"

The answer lies in a difference among the Jews in the way they reckoned the beginning and ending of days. From Josephus, the Mishna, and other ancient Jewish sources we learn that the Jews in northern Palestine calculated days from sunrise to sunrise. That area included the region of Galilee, where Jesus and all the disciples, except Judas, had grown up. Apparently most, if not all, of the Pharisees used that system of reckoning. But Jews in the southern part, which centered in Jerusalem, calculated days from sunset to sunset. Because all the priests necessarily lived in or near Jerusalem, as did most of the Sadducees, those groups followed the southern scheme.

That variation doubtlessly caused confusion at times, but it also had some practical benefits. During Passover time, for instance, it allowed for the feast to be celebrated legitimately on two adjoining days, thereby permitting the temple sacrifices to be made over a total period of four hours rather than two. That separation of days may also have had the effect of reducing both regional and religious clashes between the two groups.

On that basis the seeming contradictions in the gospel accounts are easily explained. Being Galileans, Jesus and His disciples considered Passover day to have started at sunrise on Thursday and to end at sunrise on Friday. The Jewish leaders who arrested and tried Jesus, being mostly priests and Sadducees, considered Passover day to begin at sunset on Thursday and end at sunset on Friday. By that variation, predetermined by God's sovereign provision, Jesus could thereby legitimately celebrate the last Passover meal with His disciples and yet still be sacrificed on Passover day.

​

See also "The Chronology of the Last Supper" by Barry D. Smith

 

[VictorC]

Thank you, Victor. My name is David and I used to post as David01 until CF changed my password, forcing me to reregister. I decided to take on bbbbbbb, as in the sound created when one moves one's index finger across the lips while blowing.

I only believe that the sabbath exists today in the sense that there is a seventh day (Saturday) at the end of the week. Beyond that, if the Jews choose to observe it, it certainly does not affect their covenant standing before God, which can only come through entering the perfect rest of Messiah.

It sounds as if your appeal is for the name of the day at the end of the week, and that's fine with me. I prefer assemblies on Saturday, based on the tradition from the Scriptures - but I fully recognize that the ordinances that governed what day we assemble have been retired, and this is why passages such as Colossians 2:16-17 mention that we have no basis to judge the practice anyone else chooses to observe.
That is liberty in Messiah, and not the temporal bondage of Moses.

Victor