Sabbath & Holy Days NECESSARY for salvation.

[TomorrowsWorld]

What I find amazing when talking to some Christians.

They use human reasoning to decide they don't have to do what God clearly tells them. So they say 9 commandments must be kept, but if you say they need to keep the 4th commandment the Sabbath day, they say you are "legalistic" or are trying to "Earn Salvation".

So are you legalistic because you don't murder? Are you trying to earn salvation because you don't use idols?

Sabbath or Sunday?

 

[bloodygrace]

Zero commandments need to be kept by believers in Christ who are led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us right from wrong about a thousand times better than the law ever could. The law could not make one sinner righteous and it could not forgive one single sin. The law is abolished for believers in Christ.

 

[SAAN]

Zero commandments need to be kept by believers in Christ who are led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us right from wrong about a thousand times better than the law ever could. The law could not make one sinner righteous and it could not forgive one single sin. The law is abolished for believers in Christ.

"Zero commandments need to be kept by believers in Christ "
-What are you accepting Jesus for then, if you have nothing to repent of, since you dont have to keep any commands.


"The Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us right from wrong about a thousand times better than the law ever could."
-This makes no sense, as you are keeping the commandments of God with the free will he gave, but are no crediting the Holy Spirit


"The law is abolished for believers in Christ."
-Then all believers in Christ can commit all sort of sexual immorality now since there is no code of conduct for them to strive for.


Your post is an extremely dangerous one that sadly many Christians are buying into and passing on to other. Id you believe the law is abolished and Christians have to keep zero commandments, but the Holy Spirit guides you from right and wrong to keep those same commandments you think are abolished, you dont believe your own theology

 

[1stcenturylady]

"Zero commandments need to be kept by believers in Christ "
-What are you accepting Jesus for then, if you have nothing to repent of, since you dont have to keep any commands.


"The Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us right from wrong about a thousand times better than the law ever could."
-This makes no sense, as you are keeping the commandments of God with the free will he gave, but are no crediting the Holy Spirit


"The law is abolished for believers in Christ."
-Then all believers in Christ can commit all sort of sexual immorality now since there is no code of conduct for them to strive for.


Your post is an extremely dangerous one that sadly many Christians are buying into and passing on to other. Id you believe the law is abolished and Christians have to keep zero commandments, but the Holy Spirit guides you from right and wrong to keep those same commandments you think are abolished, you dont believe your own theology

The only commandments a Christian have to keep are the ones Jesus gave and the Holy Spirit gave through the apostles, like Paul and John. John tells us in 1 John 3:18-23.

My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 15:10 " If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

They are two different sets of commandments, both based on the eternal royal law of God. "Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

You questioned why just nine. That is because the fourth commandment was put in the Ten Commandments as a sign of that Covenant. It is the Old Covenant, but we are under a New Covenant, based on the blood of Jesus. The sign of our New Covenant is the representation of the blood, which is called the Cup of the New Testament. 1 Corinthians 11:25.

Note the parallel in the signs of these two covenants, which both represent Christ.
REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
This do, as often as you drink it, in REMEMBERANCE of Me.”

The difference between the law and grace, is how we are able to keep them. The Jews had the law, but had to keep them in their own strength, and their carnal nature. But Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they received the POWER of the Holy Spirit. That same power is for us who accept Christ and repent of our sin. The Holy Spirit in us keeps the laws of God through us by changing our nature. Read Romans 6. We are dead to sin - it no longer has a hold on us. Therefore, if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, and are NOT under the law. Grace is the power of God given to us to be made righteous.

 

[Bob S]

What I find amazing when talking to some Christians.

I do too especially when talking to SDAs.

They use human reasoning to decide they don't have to do what God clearly tells them.

I have no idea who "they" you are talking about, but I use the Bible and the Holy Spirit only as my guide. SDAs use the writings of Ellen White as their guide and she didn't know beans from shinola. In fact she fits the "they" perfectly. The Sabbath command is found in the 10 commandments given to the nation of Israel and them only. God didn't give that command to any other nation on Earth. He has not laid it on Christians to bear. We are told by the Apostle Paul that the Sabbath was a temporary law. In fact all of the 10 were temporary, they ended when the new covenant began and are now a shadow and the reality is Jesus. 2Cor 3:7-11 and Col 2:16-17.

So they say 9 commandments must be kept, but if you say they need to keep the 4th commandment the Sabbath day, they say you are "legalistic" or are trying to "Earn Salvation".

The nine commandments are included in the new covenant law of love. As far as being legalistic read the following from the big Sabbath "keeping" churches' prophet.

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}


But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

So are you legalistic because you don't murder? Are you trying to earn salvation because you don't use idols?

No, but you are if you think you have to observe the Sabbath in order to be saved.

Sabbath or Sunday?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So they say 9 commandments must be kept

Or "zero"
Or (a favorite) "TWO"
Or ?

YHWH created everything simple, man came up with many devices (sinful, distractions, deceptions, of man).

In ACTS, they followed JESUS.
In the centuries since then, they followed JESUS.
Today, they follow JESUS.
Until JESUS returns, we follow JESUS.

JESUS can never sin. It is impossible.

JESUS is the GOOD SHEPHERD. We hear HIS VOICE.
We will not follow another.

JESUS can never sin - HE can never, ever, not even once, disobey HIS FATHER. No, not even once.

We follow JESUS. We don't disobey HIS FATHER.

If we sin, it grieves us. When we stumble, we are not cast down - THE FATHER upholds us with the STRENGTH of HIS RIGHT HAND: JESUS. HE lifts us up, even carries us, as we delight in HIM, DOING HIS WILL, HIS WORD.
(we are not hearers only, but doers of HIS WORD)

 

[Soyeong]

What I find amazing when talking to some Christians.

They use human reasoning to decide they don't have to do what God clearly tells them. So they say 9 commandments must be kept, but if you say they need to keep the 4th commandment the Sabbath day, they say you are "legalistic" or are trying to "Earn Salvation".

So are you legalistic because you don't murder? Are you trying to earn salvation because you don't use idols?

Sabbath or Sunday?

The issue is that God has never given a single command that we need to obey in order to become saved, but rather we are to obey His commands because we have been and are being saved from sinning in disobedience to His commands. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good and being trained to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful. It is godly, righteous, and good to obey God's command to keep the Sabbath, so our salvation involves being trained to keep it. It isn't necessary to keep the Sabbath in order to become saved, but rather we are saved by faith, and if we have faith in God about how we should rightly live, then we will obey His commands including keeping the Sabbath. We have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires (Romans 1:5), and we are saved by grace through faith, not by doing good works, but for the purpose of doing them (Ephesians 2:10).

 

[Soyeong]

Zero commandments need to be kept by believers in Christ who are led by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us right from wrong about a thousand times better than the law ever could. The law could not make one sinner righteous and it could not forgive one single sin. The law is abolished for believers in Christ.

The Holy Spirit has to role of leading us in obedience to God's commands (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so if we are led by the Spirit then all of God's commands need to be obeyed. It is true that the Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us right from wrong, but that is what the Law was given to instruct us how to do, so while it is true that the Spirit can lead us much better than words written on paper, what the Spirit leads us to do is in complete accordance with the Law. It is also true that the Law could not make one sinner righteous or forgive one single sin, but it was never given for either of those purposes, and it does not follow that because we shouldn't obey the Law for purpose for which it was never given that therefore we shouldn't obey it for many of the purposes for which it was given. The Law is the Word of God and Christ is the Word of God made flesh, so Jesus can't abolish the Law without abolishing himself. Furthermore, Jesus explicitly said that he came not to abolish the Law (Matthew 5:17) and Paul said expicitely said that our faith does not abolish the Law (Romans 3:31). The Law teaches how to live according to God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness (Romans 7:12), which are also eternal, so it can't be abolished without God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness first being abolished.

 

[Soyeong]

The only commandments a Christian have to keep are the ones Jesus gave and the Holy Spirit gave through the apostles, like Paul and John. John tells us in 1 John 3:18-23.

My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 15:10 " If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

They are two different sets of commandments, both based on the eternal royal law of God. "Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

In 1 John 2:3-6, it associates obeying Christ's commands with walking the same way that he walked, and those who abide in him ought to walk in the same way that he walked, which was in complete obedience to the Law. Jesus taught obedience to the Law by word, but even if he had said nothing, then he still would have taught obedience to the Law by example, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Jesus summarized the Law as being God's instructions for how to love Him and how to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so the way that God wants us to love one another is through obedience to His Law. All the other commands hang on the greatest two commands, so they are examples that paint us a picture of how to correctly obey them.

You questioned why just nine. That is because the fourth commandment was put in the Ten Commandments as a sign of that Covenant. It is the Old Covenant, but we are under a New Covenant, based on the blood of Jesus. The sign of our New Covenant is the representation of the blood, which is called the Cup of the New Testament. 1 Corinthians 11:25.

While we are under a New Covenant, are still under the same God, whose holiness, righteousness, and goodness are eternal and unchanging, so the way to act according to God's character is eternal and unchanging. Keeping the Sabbath holy is an example of how to act in accordance with the eternal holiness of our God.

The difference between the law and grace, is how we are able to keep them. The Jews had the law, but had to keep them in their own strength, and their carnal nature. But Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem until they received the POWER of the Holy Spirit. That same power is for us who accept Christ and repent of our sin. The Holy Spirit in us keeps the laws of God through us by changing our nature. Read Romans 6. We are dead to sin - it no longer has a hold on us. Therefore, if you walk in the Spirit you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, and are NOT under the law. Grace is the power of God given to us to be made righteous.

According to Psalms 119:29 and Psalms 119:124, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His Law. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is Lawful and to renounce doing what is Lawless. According to Jude 1:4, ungodly people pervert God's grace as a licence to sin, which is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4). According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His Law.

The Jews had the Law, but they failed to obtain righteous because they pursued the Law as though righteousness were by works instead of pursing the Law as though righteousness were by faith (Romans 9:30-32). According to Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith was one of the most important aspects of the Law, so it has always been meant to be obey by faith in God about how we should rightly live. Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey His commands (John 14:15), so obedience God's Law has also always been about demonstrating our love for God, and thereby growing in a relationship with Him based on faith and love. However, God's Law can be outwardly obeyed without having a focus on growing in a relationship with God by faith and love, and this is why the Jews were failing to obtain righteousness. A relationship with Christ is the goal of the Law for everyone who believers (Romans 10:4), but Prior to Paul's Damascus Road experience, he had been keeping the Law without have a focus on growing in a relationship with Christ, so he had been missing the whole point and counted it as rubbish (Philippians 3:8).

According to Galatians 5:16-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law, while everything listed as fruits of the Spirit as also accordance with the Law, which makes sense because the Law was given by God, the Spirit is God, and the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). So it doesn't make any sense to say in Galatians 5:18 that if we are led by the Spirit, then we aren't under God's Law, but rather it is the law of sin that stirs up the works of the flesh that, where sin had dominion over us that we aren't under if we are led by the Spirit (Romans 6:14).

 

[1stcenturylady]

I do too especially when talking to SDAs.


I have no idea who "they" you are talking about, but I use the Bible and the Holy Spirit only as my guide. SDAs use the writings of Ellen White as their guide and she didn't know beans from shinola. In fact she fits the "they" perfectly. The Sabbath command is found in the 10 commandments given to the nation of Israel and them only. God didn't give that command to any other nation on Earth. He has not laid it on Christians to bear. We are told by the Apostle Paul that the Sabbath was a temporary law. In fact all of the 10 were temporary, they ended when the new covenant began and are now a shadow and the reality is Jesus. 2Cor 3:7-11 and Col 2:16-17.


The nine commandments are included in the new covenant law of love. As far as being legalistic read the following from the big Sabbath "keeping" churches' prophet.

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}


But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}


No, but you are if you think you have to observe the Sabbath in order to be saved.

Sabbath or Sunday?

Hi Bob, I wanted to ask you if you were raised, or have ever been an Adventist. You know so much about it even down to The Clear Word. You remind me of myself, and how angry I was after I learned the difference between the Old Covenant and the New about grace in November, 1970. I was taught about grace, but it wasn't all there was to know about grace. In fact, it was a bit perverted. But, it was a start; at least my mind was now open to know what I had been missing in my training. From then on I was never a denominationalist as I had been all my youth. I depended on God to teach me, and it took decades and I'm still learning. I just want you to know that God does work through Seventh-day Adventists. He has not abandoned anyone who honors and trusts God, no matter how much they know or don't yet know. Don't for one moment believe God doesn't. They have not abandoned Jesus for the Ten Commandments. They believe the Father's commandments are the commandments of Jesus. They love Jesus and obey all ten commandments. I am very proud to have been an Adventist in my youth. I learned the fear of the Lord, and obedience.

My anger finally vanished when I visited my mother's church with her on a vacation back to Illinois. The Lord had me study a particular subject that I had been meditating on for some weeks. The junior pastor at the SDA church preached on the very same subject, and it was right in line with what God had been teaching me. Then a couple years later the same thing happened on another vacation visit. The same junior preacher, and a different subject the Lord had me studying at the time. Right then and there I knew the Holy Spirit was not limited to Pentecostal type churches, and that Seventh-day Adventists were as much Christians as I was now. What an eye opener. And I've loved them again ever since.

I know Bob Ryan probably doesn't go to movies, but both you and he need to see Hacksaw Ridge on DVD. It is the life of Desmond T. Doss who I have known about all my life. Yes, it is gruesome, but not as much as what Desmond actually went through. After you see it, you may consider them brethren. I hope so.

 

[1stcenturylady]

In 1 John 2:3-6, it associates obeying Christ's commands with walking the same way that he walked, and those who abide in him ought to walk in the same way that he walked, which was in complete obedience to the Law. Jesus taught obedience to the Law by word, but even if he had said nothing, then he still would have taught obedience to the Law by example, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Jesus summarized the Law as being God's instructions for how to love Him and how to love our neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), so the way that God wants us to love one another is through obedience to His Law. All the other commands hang on the greatest two commands, so they are examples that paint us a picture of how to correctly obey them.



While we are under a New Covenant, are still under the same God, whose holiness, righteousness, and goodness are eternal and unchanging, so the way to act according to God's character is eternal and unchanging. Keeping the Sabbath holy is an example of how to act in accordance with the eternal holiness of our God.



According to Psalms 119:29 and Psalms 119:124, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His Law. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is Lawful and to renounce doing what is Lawless. According to Jude 1:4, ungodly people pervert God's grace as a licence to sin, which is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4). According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His Law.

The Jews had the Law, but they failed to obtain righteous because they pursued the Law as though righteousness were by works instead of pursing the Law as though righteousness were by faith (Romans 9:30-32). According to Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith was one of the most important aspects of the Law, so it has always been meant to be obey by faith in God about how we should rightly live. Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey His commands (John 14:15), so obedience God's Law has also always been about demonstrating our love for God, and thereby growing in a relationship with Him based on faith and love. However, God's Law can be outwardly obeyed without having a focus on growing in a relationship with God by faith and love, and this is why the Jews were failing to obtain righteousness. A relationship with Christ is the goal of the Law for everyone who believers (Romans 10:4), but Prior to Paul's Damascus Road experience, he had been keeping the Law without have a focus on growing in a relationship with Christ, so he had been missing the whole point and counted it as rubbish (Philippians 3:8).

According to Galatians 5:16-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Law, while everything listed as fruits of the Spirit as also accordance with the Law, which makes sense because the Law was given by God, the Spirit is God, and the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). So it doesn't make any sense to say in Galatians 5:18 that if we are led by the Spirit, then we aren't under God's Law, but rather it is the law of sin that stirs up the works of the flesh that, where sin had dominion over us that we aren't under if we are led by the Spirit (Romans 6:14).

You have the best of both worlds, and honor God with your obedience to what you believe. I am grateful for learning the Old Testament commands, and still refer to them on the subject of remarriage. By the way, what is the Messianic belief about divorce and remarriage?

 

[bloodygrace]

"Zero commandments need to be kept by believers in Christ "
-What are you accepting Jesus for then, if you have nothing to repent of, since you dont have to keep any commands.


"The Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us right from wrong about a thousand times better than the law ever could."
-This makes no sense, as you are keeping the commandments of God with the free will he gave, but are no crediting the Holy Spirit


"The law is abolished for believers in Christ."
-Then all believers in Christ can commit all sort of sexual immorality now since there is no code of conduct for them to strive for.


Your post is an extremely dangerous one that sadly many Christians are buying into and passing on to other. Id you believe the law is abolished and Christians have to keep zero commandments, but the Holy Spirit guides you from right and wrong to keep those same commandments you think are abolished, you dont believe your own theology

Faith and Love are the sole commandments for the believer in Christ. Every Christian duty and practice can fall into one of these 'new' commandments.

 

[bloodygrace]

The Holy Spirit has to role of leading us in obedience to God's commands (Ezekiel 36:26-27), so if we are led by the Spirit then all of God's commands need to be obeyed. It is true that the Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us right from wrong, but that is what the Law was given to instruct us how to do, so while it is true that the Spirit can lead us much better than words written on paper, what the Spirit leads us to do is in complete accordance with the Law. It is also true that the Law could not make one sinner righteous or forgive one single sin, but it was never given for either of those purposes, and it does not follow that because we shouldn't obey the Law for purpose for which it was never given that therefore we shouldn't obey it for many of the purposes for which it was given. The Law is the Word of God and Christ is the Word of God made flesh, so Jesus can't abolish the Law without abolishing himself. Furthermore, Jesus explicitly said that he came not to abolish the Law (Matthew 5:17) and Paul said expicitely said that our faith does not abolish the Law (Romans 3:31). The Law teaches how to live according to God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness (Romans 7:12), which are also eternal, so it can't be abolished without God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness first being abolished.

No law for believers only faith and love. Those who preach law for believers are themselves unbelievers and under the curse of the law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace - Gal. 5:4

 

[Hethatreadethit]

What I find amazing when talking to some Christians.

They use human reasoning to decide they don't have to do what God clearly tells them. So they say 9 commandments must be kept, but if you say they need to keep the 4th commandment the Sabbath day, they say you are "legalistic" or are trying to "Earn Salvation".

So are you legalistic because you don't murder? Are you trying to earn salvation because you don't use idols?

Sabbath or Sunday?

If you love God and keep His commandments, the
Spirit will guide your path. The Spirit of truth will discern the way. God thinks highly of His laws and especially the Sabbath. The Sabbath has a far greater fulfillment as well and the holy days to the purpose of God, than appears to the carnal mind of man who always puts his will above God. The Sabbath will be fulfilled to those who are of the household of faith. Those who wait for the 8th day will be disappointed.

 

[bloodygrace]

If you love God and keep His commandments, the
Spirit will guide your path. The Spirit of truth will discern the way. God thinks highly of His laws and especially the Sabbath. The Sabbath has a far greater fulfillment as well and the holy days to the purpose of God, than appears to the carnal mind of man who always puts his will above God. The Sabbath will be fulfilled to those who are of the household of faith. Those who wait for the 8th day will be disappointed.

The Sabbath is fulfilled for those who rest in the finished work of Christ not a day. Sabbath keeping is the ultimate in work's righteousness where sinful man tries to make a day holy with his pathetic good works. SDA and their Judaizing heresy come to mind.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I know Bob Ryan probably doesn't go to movies, but both you and he need to see Hacksaw Ridge on DVD. It is the life of Desmond T. Doss who I have known about all my life. Yes, it is gruesome, but not as much as what Desmond actually went through. After you see it, you may consider them brethren. I hope so.

Amein ! HALLELUYAH! YES ! GOOD TESTIMONY of JESUS.

Another earlier movie also, about Desmond,
probably on youtube but don't know for sure.

 

[Soyeong]

No law for believers only faith and love.

Jesus said that faith is one of the most important aspects of the Law (Matthew 23:23) and that if we love him, then we will obey His commands (John 14:15), so there is no dichotomy between God's Law and faith and love.

Those who preach law for believers are themselves unbelievers and under the curse of the law.

Can you really not see how absurd that is on the face of it? All throughout the Bible God wanted His people to repent and obey His commands by faith, but you would have me believe that God curses those who seek to obey His commands by faith and blesses those who don't have faith and live in disobedience to them. No, according to Deuteronomy 30:15-20, the Law brings life and a blessing for obedience and death and a curse for disobedience, so it is those who preach disobedience to the Law of our God who are false prophets who are under a curse. The curse of the Law is living in disobedience to it so being set free from the curse of the Law means that we have been set free from living in disobedience to it and are now free to enjoy the blessings of living in obedience to it. You can't be a believer that Jesus is Lord without submitting to his commands as Lord and follow his example.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace - Gal. 5:4

There is a world of difference between saying that as servants of God we need to obey His Law by faith and saying that we need to obey His Law in order to become justified. The Law was never given for the purpose of providing the means of becoming justified and it does not follow that because we shouldn't obey it for that purpose that therefore we shouldn't obeying for the many purposes for which it was given. Paul spent a lot of time hammering home the point that obedience to the Law was not about trying to become justified and that we are justified by faith apart from the Law, yet today you are still making that same error of thinking that obeying the Law was about trying to become justified, only you have compounded your error by concluding that your faith has done away with your need to obey the Law, whereas Paul concluded that our faith does not abolish the Law, but rather our faith upholds the Law (Romans 3:27-31).

 

[1stcenturylady]

Amein ! HALLELUYAH! YES ! GOOD TESTIMONY of JESUS.

Another earlier movie also, about Desmond,
probably on youtube but don't know for sure.

In the special features section of the DVD it speaks of a documentary. I remember when I was young I watched him on This is Your Life. I want to search for that and see it again.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob, I wanted to ask you if you were raised, or have ever been an Adventist.

My wife and I were in our early twenties when after a two year study joined the church. After all that time we knew a lot of people and felt at home with them..SDAs are great loving people. You might say they loved us into the church. Actually it was the 10 commandments that was the culprit. As you related below, I knew nothing about the difference between the new and the old. I never considered the fact that God didn't give the Sabbath command to any other nation and there is no command in the New Testament for Christians to observe any day.

You know so much about it even down to The Clear Word. You remind me of myself, and how angry I was after I learned the difference between the Old Covenant and the New about grace in November, 1970.

After 40 years something rubs off even if I was not in a in-depth study for most of the time. We had many of the books plus the index to her topics, so when I needed some "advice" old Ellen was right there cheering me on. I, like most SDAs, only used the writings for things that were fairly easy to do. Our children all had bicycles, we had albums of photographs and I took a shower, polished my shoes and we cooked peas on the Sabbath. Oh yes, we tried to be veggies and finally gave up and I peppered my meat. OY! Our kids went through college in SDA schools and my wife was a teacher in the school system. I was an elder and deacon. Yep, I knew a little and when I started seeing cracks in the foundation of the SDA system my wife and I were really floored. How could have God led us into so opposite to the real truth. And yes, I was angry just like you were. My anger subsided years ago and my goal is to try to help SDAs see the Light through the cracks. We still have many great friends in the church and have helped some see the cracks and have since moved on.

I was taught about grace, but it wasn't all there was to know about grace.

After leaving one of the most wonderful things happened. I went from being very much a legalist to a grace filled Christian. I thank my SDA background for being able to see both sides ways to live. Grace is so dear to me and I understand it so much better being on both sides.The Holy Spirit does marvelous things in our lives. We have to give special thanks for such a gift.

In fact, it was a bit perverted. But, it was a start; at least my mind was now open to know what I had been missing in my training. From then on I was never a denominationalist as I had been all my youth. I depended on God to teach me, and it took decades and I'm still learning.

Never give up. I have not join a church since leaving Adventism. WE do fellowship and support a church we have grown to love.

I just want you to know that God does work through Seventh-day Adventists. He has not abandoned anyone who honors and trusts God, no matter how much they know or don't yet know. Don't for one moment believe God doesn't. They have not abandoned Jesus for the Ten Commandments. They believe the Father's commandments are the commandments of Jesus. They love Jesus and obey all ten commandments. I am very proud to have been an Adventist in my youth. I learned the fear of the Lord, and obedience.

God uses us where we are. I am pretty hard on my SDA brothers and sisters. I don't give them any slack. I like what you wrote. I don't hold the people at fault. They have been conditioned to believe what they do. Look at all cults, they have something that makes them different and those things intrigue people. I have read to many books by those who have left. Most have been of the hierarchy. Many of them know better, but choose to stay mum so they can keep their cushy jobs.

My anger finally vanished when I visited my mother's church with her on a vacation back to Illinois. The Lord had me study a particular subject that I had been meditating on for some weeks. The junior pastor at the SDA church preached on the very same subject, and it was right in line with what God had been teaching me. Then a couple years later the same thing happened on another vacation visit. The same junior preacher, and a different subject the Lord had me studying at the time. Right then and there I knew the Holy Spirit was not limited to Pentecostal type churches, and that Seventh-day Adventists were as much Christians as I was now. What an eye opener. And I've loved them again ever since.

I am glad for you, just don't let them love you back. It is the same church you left.

I know Bob Ryan probably doesn't go to movies,

I would say he probably does. Of course if he attends a very conservative group if he does he keeps it quiet. The principal of the SDA school was caught going to a movie and all hell broke out.

but both you and he need to see Hacksaw Ridge on DVD. It is the life of Desmond T. Doss who I have known about all my life. Yes, it is gruesome, but not as much as what Desmond actually went through. After you see it, you may consider them brethren. I hope so.

We want to see it and in fact have it recorded. He was a true Christian that loved Jesus so much he was willing to lay down his life for others. God spared him.

If you knew him personally then you must have grown up in Virginia.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Recently copied for entirely another thread , but good here:

VOICE
Here’s my point: just because a person hears the law read or recited does not mean he is right before the one True God; it is following the law that makes one right, not just hearing it.

PHILLIPS
All who have sinned without knowledge of the Law will die without reference to the Law; and all who have sinned knowing the Law shall be judged according to the Law. It is not familiarity with the Law that justifies a man in the sight of God, but obedience to it.