Sabbath From Creation

[Stryder06]

Maybe it was because the Sabbath hadn't been introduced. It was an experiment to see if they would follow God's instructions, which later became a sign for their nation.


4 Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will rain down bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gather enough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions. 5 On the sixth day they are to prepare what they bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.”

God used the sabbath as a test. Interestingly enough the same thing is gonna happen again

That aside, it doesn't keep the sabbath from having been a law before hand. God is merciful. His people had been in bondage for 400+ years, surrounded by a Godless nation. No doubt their minds had been muddled being in all that filth. It's like, if Israel couldn't do something so simple as to take a break when God told them to take a break, how could they be expected to do the tougher things like Not worship false gods? How and why God decides to test His people is His choice. He's God. He can do it how He wants and when He wants.

 

[tall73]

When you became a Christian wasn't there things you needed to learn? Things like not having sex with your girlfriend until you were married. Was not having sex with your girlfriend until you get married still God's will for you before you were taught not to have sex outside of marriage? There are a lot of things God needs to teach us before we enter the promise land so that when we get in the promise land we will know what to expect and how to live. Don't continue wondering in the wildernesses by your stubborn heart and end up dying there because just as they did, we can do too.

So your argument is that God omitted this important command for the whole community?

Then if God can omit its observance, why do you take issue if He does the same now, saying not to judge on new moons, sabbaths, feasts, etc?

 

[tall73]

God's timing. Moses, before Sinai, told His Father-in-law that he judge the people and made known to them the law of God. Would that law have been different from the law given at Sinai?

God's timing was to not require the law of the Gentiles in Acts 15. That was the suggestion of the Pharisee wing and it was rejected.

The law Moses had may well be different as things such as the passover, etc. would not have existed before the Exodus.

 

[k4c]

So your argument is that God omitted this important command for the whole community?

Then if God can omit its observance, why do you take issue if He does the same now, saying not to judge on new moons, sabbaths, feasts, etc?

The very first thing God taught His people, after delivering them from Egypt, was the Sabbath. The Sabbath was so important to God that if you profaned it you were to be put to death. Thank God for his grace and patience for many of us would be put to death today. But don't use the grace of God as a license. But rather, have endurance in keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus lest you fall into the same example God gave of Israel in the wilderness.

 

[tall73]

The very first thing God taught His people, after delivering them from Egypt, was the Sabbath. The Sabbath was so important to God that if you profaned it you were to be put to death. Thank God for his grace and patience for many of us would be put to death today. But don't use the grace of God as a license. But rather, have endurance in keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus lest you fall into the same example God gave of Israel in the wilderness.

The first thing he enjoined was the Passover.

He also established at that time what would be the first month of their calendar.

The Sabbath was not until sometime later.

 

[k4c]

The first thing he enjoined was the Passover.

He also established at that time what would be the first month of their calendar.

The Sabbath was not until sometime later.

You could say passover started while they were still in slavery but you know what. These are all side track issues that have nothing to do with the fact that God created the seventh day before sin for no other reason but to bless it, sanctify it and to call it holy. This day is special for those who love God and are called according to His purpose. Jesus is Lord of the very same Sabbath, which makes it the Lord's day. And since Jesus is my Lord the Sabbath is my day too. The very same Sabbath was made for mankind, not Jewish people. The followers of Jesus rested, according to the commandment, on the Sabbath day and this was after Jesus' death. There is so much more but you know what, it's all up to God now.

 

[tall73]

You could say passover started while they were still in slavery but you know what. These are all side track issues ....

They are not sidetrack issues at all for the original post of this thread.

Quote:
For those of you that don't believe the Sabbath was instituted from creation but was only given at Mt Sinai, how do you explain that the Israelites kept the Sabbath after the Exodus before arriving at Mt Sinai? If this was something new to them, how did Moses know beforehand what the Sabbath was and how to keep it?


He was trying to use Ex 16 to support his view, but it does not. Instead it raises questions about why God would wait to institute this ceremony if it was critical and already in existence.

 

[k4c]

They are not sidetrack issues at all for the original post of this thread.

Quote:
For those of you that don't believe the Sabbath was instituted from creation but was only given at Mt Sinai, how do you explain that the Israelites kept the Sabbath after the Exodus before arriving at Mt Sinai? If this was something new to them, how did Moses know beforehand what the Sabbath was and how to keep it?

He was trying to use Ex 16 to support his view, but it does not. Instead it raises questions about why God would wait to institute this ceremony if it was critical and already in existence.

So your reasoning for refusing to keep the Sabbath holy is because God was slow to make it known so it must not be important?

What are your thoughts about Jesus? Was He not important either because He was revealed at the end of time?

1Pet 1:20 He was chosen before the foundation of the world but was revealed at the end of the times for you.

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[tall73]

So your reasoning for refusing to keep the Sabbath holy is because God was slow to make it known so it must not be important?

What are your thoughts about Jesus? Was He not important either because He was revealed at the end of time?

1Pet 1:20 He was chosen before the foundation of the world but was revealed at the end of the times for you.

　​

A. Col 2:16 is my primary reason for not feeling the Sabbath is binding on all. A few other texts in the NT have a bearing as well. I never said my main reason was Ex. 16. But the topic of this thread was Exodus 16.

B. Your comparison to Jesus is a bit odd. It is a legitimate question to ask why they did not keep it from the time of the Exodus until Ex. 16, in light of the topic of this thread.

I hardly suggested Jesus is not important. I didn't even suggest the Sabbath was unimportant as a theological institution. I was looking at the topic, what Ex. 16 brings to the table in terms of evidence.

 

[k4c]

A. Col 2:16 is my primary reason for not feeling the Sabbath is binding on all. A few other texts in the NT have a bearing as well. I never said my main reason was Ex. 16. But the topic of this thread was Exodus 16.

B. Your comparison to Jesus is a bit odd. It is a legitimate question to ask why they did not keep it from the time of the Exodus until Ex. 16, in light of the topic of this thread.

I hardly suggested Jesus is not important. I didn't even suggest the Sabbath was unimportant as a theological institution. I was looking at the topic, what Ex. 16 brings to the table in terms of evidence.

Many people are taken back by Colossians 2:16. The reason for this is because they have not come to uderstand the difference between the blessedness of the seventh day, which was created before sin, protected by Law of which Jesus is Lord of, and the shadows, which were instituted after creation as a result of sin to act as shadows.

The list of activities in Colossians 2:16 were institued as a result of sin and acted as shadows to help us understand how God was going to deal with sin through Jesus Christ.

Neh 10:33 for the showbread, and for the continual meal-offering, and for the continual burnt-offering, for the sabbaths, for the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin-offerings to make atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Ezek 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give the burnt-offerings, and the meal-offerings, and the drink-offerings, in the feasts, and on the new moons, and on the sabbaths, in all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin-offering, and the meal-offering, and the burnt-offering, and the peace-offerings, to make atonement for the house of Israel.

These shadows were instituted long after the seventh day was created and blessed by God.​

So how do we know if the list of things mentioned in Colossians 2:16 were the shadows? By reading the verse 17. Verse 17 identifies these activities in Colossians 2:16 as the shadows that came as a result of sin.

Colossians 2:16-17 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.​

To me, I see God making a distinction between the shadows that were instituted as a result of sin and the seventh day of creation, which was created as part of creation, protected by Law of which Jesus is Lord of. It's the only day in the NT that Jesus gave instruction on how to keep it holy.​

 

[Stryder06]

God's timing was to not require the law of the Gentiles in Acts 15. That was the suggestion of the Pharisee wing and it was rejected.

The law Moses had may well be different as things such as the passover, etc. would not have existed before the Exodus.

I disagree. In Acts 15 God was using the disciples to tell the others to let the babies crawl before they walk.

 

[k4c]

I disagree. In Acts 15 God was using the disciples to tell the others to let the babies crawl before they walk.

Amen...He goes on to say how they will learn the rest in church because those things are being taught every Sabbath.

 

[Section10]

This thread can go nowhere since we are not just discussing the significance of the Sabbath, but the significance of the whole 7th Day Adventist Church. Without the Sabbath in place there would be no reason for 7th Day Adventism. This is unallowable. I am thoroughly convinced of my position and I am sure those across the fence are equally convinced of theirs. The Sabbath concept is crucial to the existence of this church so it is higly unlikely it will ever be argued away regardless of whatever is used to discredit it. And the same holds for most any church that claims a special understanding of God's will as opposed to the rest of them.

 

[JohnMarsten]

This thread can go nowhere since we are not just discussing the significance of the Sabbath, but the significance of the whole 7th Day Adventist Church. Without the Sabbath in place there would be no reason for 7th Day Adventism. This is unallowable. I am thoroughly convinced of my position and I am sure those across the fence are equally convinced of theirs. The Sabbath concept is crucial to the existence of this church so it is higly unlikely it will ever be argued away regardless of whatever is used to discredit it. And the same holds for most any church that claims a special understanding of God's will as opposed to the rest of them.

you hit the nail on the head, its like I always use to say, 'nothing really matters' besides the sabbath in the world of adventism...

like I said about the new moons... why not create another sda like church that has new moons in its programme and call everyone else an unbeliever... at best with a predicted and failed 2nd coming that goes before...

 

[tall73]

Many people are taken back by Colossians 2:16. The reason for this is because they have not come to uderstand the difference between the blessedness of the seventh day, which was created before sin, protected by Law of which Jesus is Lord of, and the shadows, which were instituted after creation as a result of sin to act as shadows.

The list of activities in Colossians 2:16 were institued as a result of sin and acted as shadows to help us understand how God was going to deal with sin through Jesus Christ.

Neh 10:33 for the showbread, and for the continual meal-offering, and for the continual burnt-offering, for the sabbaths, for the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy things, and for the sin-offerings to make atonement for Israel, and for all the work of the house of our God.

Ezek 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part to give the burnt-offerings, and the meal-offerings, and the drink-offerings, in the feasts, and on the new moons, and on the sabbaths, in all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin-offering, and the meal-offering, and the burnt-offering, and the peace-offerings, to make atonement for the house of Israel.

These shadows were instituted long after the seventh day was created and blessed by God.​

So how do we know if the list of things mentioned in Colossians 2:16 were the shadows? By reading the verse 17. Verse 17 identifies these activities in Colossians 2:16 as the shadows that came as a result of sin.

Colossians 2:16-17 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.​

To me, I see God making a distinction between the shadows that were instituted as a result of sin and the seventh day of creation, which was created as part of creation, protected by Law of which Jesus is Lord of. It's the only day in the NT that Jesus gave instruction on how to keep it holy.​

The Sabbath also had its sacrifices, etc. and was a shadow as well. It was a sign of deliverance, being associated with deliverance from Egypt in Deuteronomy.

Per Hebrews 4 God's rest on the 7th day of Creation was a shadow of salvation by faith that we enter into.

Beyond that it was a sign with Israel, and part of the appointed times given to them.

And if you wonder how Hebrews could say that about something that happened before the fall, consider that Jesus was the Lamb of God slain "before the foundation of the world".

Of course it is debated whether the actual Sabbath institution came about at creation or later in commemoration of the creation event and the cessation of creation on the 7th day.

But we have additional biblical information that indicates the weekly sabbath is included in the verse.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

Paul here groups together the festivals, new moons and sabbaths. By doing so he calls to mind several Old Testament texts that likewise group these days.

The weekly sabbath is included in the listing of appointed times in Leviticus 23.

This however, is not the only listing that groups the sabbath with these other times. Of particular importance is Numbers 28-29. It lists the sacrifices for the various appointed times. It includes the weekly sabbath along with the others.

The reason that it is of particular importance is because Numbers 28-29 forms the basis of several other references to these days in LIST form, similar to what we see in Col. 2:16.

Several of these are found in Chronicles. And they clearly refer back to Numbers 28-29 as they are talking about the sacrifices to be offered on the various days. Here is an example.

2Ch 31:3 He appointed also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD.

This list form, Sabbaths, new moons, and set feasts, is very similar to what we see Paul using in Colossians 2:16. And we know that these included the weekly sabbath because they are summarizing Numbers 28-29.



That this listing includes the weekly sabbath is made even more clear in Ezekiel:

Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.

The first time feasts is mentioned it is the chag, the three annual feasts. The summary "all the appointed feasts" are the moed, all the appointed times.

So we see that this listing of feasts, new moons and sabbaths includes all the appointed times. The appointed times included the weekly Sabbath in the two critical listings of them.

But we have further evidence in this case. The weekly sabbath is spelled out in the later explanation following the verse.

Eze 46:1 "Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:2 The prince shall enter by the vestibule of the gate from outside, and shall take his stand by the post of the gate. The priests shall offer his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate. Then he shall go out, but the gate shall not be shut until evening.
Eze 46:3 The people of the land shall bow down at the entrance of that gate before the LORD on the Sabbaths and on the new moons.
Eze 46:4 The burnt offering that the prince offers to the LORD on the Sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the grain offering with the ram shall be an ephah, and the grain offering with the lambs shall be as much as he is able, together with a hin of oil to each ephah.

So we have the summary statement of all the appointed times, Feasts, new moons, sabbaths, and then specific statements that indicate the weekly sabbath were included in that summary statement. This is just as we would expect because the sabbath was included in Lev. 23, and Numbers 28-29, as part of the appointed times.

Paul then is using a list that is a summary statement of the appointed times, including the weekly Sabbath.

 

[tall73]

I disagree. In Acts 15 God was using the disciples to tell the others to let the babies crawl before they walk.

But in Acts 21 some time later they reiterate the standards for gentiles and they have not changed.

Now are you saying that the gentiles should slowly work up to the notion of being circumcised and keeping the whole law (not just the ten, that was the issue).

 

[tall73]

Amen...He goes on to say how they will learn the rest in church because those things are being taught every Sabbath.

Actually he does not say they will learn the rest in church.

But if you agree with that head on over the the Messianic forum because they make that argument all the time to endorse feast keeping etc.


What he says is:

Act 15:20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues."

Several possibilities as to the meaning of this have been given. A few others are

-The gentiles would be around Jews who were familiar with the law and had to keep some baseline principles to allow fellowship.

-Moses is read every week and gentiles would get the idea they have to keep the whole law if we don't clarify.


And in the actual letter to the gentiles nothing at all is mentioned about synagogue attendance, learning to keep the law eventually etc.

The letter just says the guys trying to make you be circumcised and keep the law were not sent by us, don't listen to them. That would hardly give the impression that they needed to learn to keep the law slowly.

 

[k4c]

The Sabbath also had its sacrifices, etc. and was a shadow as well. It was a sign of deliverance, being associated with deliverance from Egypt in Deuteronomy.

Per Hebrews 4 God's rest on the 7th day of Creation was a shadow of salvation by faith that we enter into.

Beyond that it was a sign with Israel, and part of the appointed times given to them.

And if you wonder how Hebrews could say that about something that happened before the fall, consider that Jesus was the Lamb of God slain "before the foundation of the world".

Of course it is debated whether the actual Sabbath institution came about at creation or later in commemoration of the creation event and the cessation of creation on the 7th day.

But we have additional biblical information that indicates the weekly sabbath is included in the verse.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

Paul here groups together the festivals, new moons and sabbaths. By doing so he calls to mind several Old Testament texts that likewise group these days.

The weekly sabbath is included in the listing of appointed times in Leviticus 23.

This however, is not the only listing that groups the sabbath with these other times. Of particular importance is Numbers 28-29. It lists the sacrifices for the various appointed times. It includes the weekly sabbath along with the others.

The reason that it is of particular importance is because Numbers 28-29 forms the basis of several other references to these days in LIST form, similar to what we see in Col. 2:16.

Several of these are found in Chronicles. And they clearly refer back to Numbers 28-29 as they are talking about the sacrifices to be offered on the various days. Here is an example.

2Ch 31:3 He appointed also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD.

This list form, Sabbaths, new moons, and set feasts, is very similar to what we see Paul using in Colossians 2:16. And we know that these included the weekly sabbath because they are summarizing Numbers 28-29.



That this listing includes the weekly sabbath is made even more clear in Ezekiel:

Eze 45:17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.

The first time feasts is mentioned it is the chag, the three annual feasts. The summary "all the appointed feasts" are the moed, all the appointed times.

So we see that this listing of feasts, new moons and sabbaths includes all the appointed times. The appointed times included the weekly Sabbath in the two critical listings of them.

But we have further evidence in this case. The weekly sabbath is spelled out in the later explanation following the verse.

Eze 46:1 "Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days, but on the Sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Eze 46:2 The prince shall enter by the vestibule of the gate from outside, and shall take his stand by the post of the gate. The priests shall offer his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate. Then he shall go out, but the gate shall not be shut until evening.
Eze 46:3 The people of the land shall bow down at the entrance of that gate before the LORD on the Sabbaths and on the new moons.
Eze 46:4 The burnt offering that the prince offers to the LORD on the Sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish and a ram without blemish.
Eze 46:5 And the grain offering with the ram shall be an ephah, and the grain offering with the lambs shall be as much as he is able, together with a hin of oil to each ephah.

So we have the summary statement of all the appointed times, Feasts, new moons, sabbaths, and then specific statements that indicate the weekly sabbath were included in that summary statement. This is just as we would expect because the sabbath was included in Lev. 23, and Numbers 28-29, as part of the appointed times.

Paul then is using a list that is a summary statement of the appointed times, including the weekly Sabbath.

The word, sabbath, only means rest or cease. There were many sabbaths all throughout the OT. The rest is not what makes a day holy, the day is holy so we rest to acknowlege its holiness. With this, we have to determine why a day is holy. The seventh day of creation is holy because it's a sign of creation and testifies of a Creator. It's used for many other signs as well such as a sign to Israel to remind them of a time in slavery when they did not have freedom to cease labor to worship God. It's used as a means to testify which God we worship. It's used to setarate a people for God. It's used as a sign of delieverence from the bondage of sin. It's also used as a picture of our heavenly kingdom time when we, as God's people, will all be together in the kingdom of God. Some the signs that the Sabbath is used for are not for us but some are. Either way, the day is holy and protected by Law because it was created holy and remains holy. It's holiness has nothing to do with sin, in the same way, marriage is holy.

I choose to keep both marriage and the seventh day, just as God says and Jesus taught.

 

[k4c]

This thread can go nowhere since we are not just discussing the significance of the Sabbath, but the significance of the whole 7th Day Adventist Church. Without the Sabbath in place there would be no reason for 7th Day Adventism. This is unallowable. I am thoroughly convinced of my position and I am sure those across the fence are equally convinced of theirs. The Sabbath concept is crucial to the existence of this church so it is higly unlikely it will ever be argued away regardless of whatever is used to discredit it. And the same holds for most any church that claims a special understanding of God's will as opposed to the rest of them.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. I guess He's the head of the Seventh Day Adventist church. Take away the Sabbath and you take away the Lord of the Sabbath.

 

[Section10]

Maybe we should bring back circumcision since that is also permanently established by God in the OT.