a small correction the term christian Sabbeth is incorrect. Christians observe Sunday as the Day of the Lord. or the first day of the week. i have heard lots of people make this error.
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Sabbath Discussion Thread (Split from FAQ)
- Thread starter Didymus
- Start date
Already ahead of you there Didymus. 
I called it day of worship. I think "what is a Sabbath" would make a good general question.
By the way, nothing in the list is set in stone there. I'm just providing it as an example for a work in progress right now.
I called it day of worship. I think "what is a Sabbath" would make a good general question.By the way, nothing in the list is set in stone there. I'm just providing it as an example for a work in progress right now.
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If it were me, I'd leave the question as:
simply because quite a few Christians are under the impression that "Sunday" and "Sabbath" are interchangeable terms. You could tack on a "what the Sabbath is" explanation somewhere in the answer to this question.
simply because quite a few Christians are under the impression that "Sunday" and "Sabbath" are interchangeable terms. You could tack on a "what the Sabbath is" explanation somewhere in the answer to this question.
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MissytheButterfly
Back and Better than EVER!
Hmm, I don't know.. shouldn't it be based on fact rather than on what people "think" ? The Christians do not have a Sabbath.. Jews do.. so why not explain what the sabbath is and what the Christian day of worship is ? This is just a suggestion.. because frankly I like to deal in facts.. and I kind of feel my intelligence is insulted when someone feels they need to cater to me by sugaring up reality in other words condescending. It reminds me of what the bible says about a lukewarm spirit.. but hey that's me.
Also the question of "How are Messianics different from other Christians?" doesn't make sense.. that answer would be: Because Messianics are not Christians. A better question is "How are Messianics different from Christians." A Messianic Jew will tell you that he is a JEW not a Christian.
Missy
Also the question of "How are Messianics different from other Christians?" doesn't make sense.. that answer would be: Because Messianics are not Christians. A better question is "How are Messianics different from Christians." A Messianic Jew will tell you that he is a JEW not a Christian.
Missy
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Eh?
That didn't make sense. Since the Christian day of worship isn't a Sabbath (at least in general) then I prefer to call it like it is. More likely I think people will ask what constitutes a Sabbath then.
P4I, you want to work basic concepts of Messianic Judaism thread? That would be good for the definitive questions like "what is a sabbath?" and so on. I think it would be easier to find things if we kept them seperate.
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MissytheButterfly
Back and Better than EVER!
Yeah, it did make sense. Sunday is the Christian day of worship, not the Sabbath. It was never thought that the Christian day of worship was the Sabbath. Constantine also issued laws outlawing the Sabbath. I certainly can give you historical references in detail to prove this fact, if you would like them. Early Christians never reguarded Sunday worship as the Sabbath. It's a common mistake made among people today because they do not know the history of the Christian day of worship. Would you like those exact sources I am referring to.. ? As I said.. I like to deal in fact and just trying to help. Now of course if you would prefer to do it a different way, that is your choice because it would be your thread, but I am saying history would prove it wrong. And I think it far better to have accurate history, than what isn't, especially if you are trying to teach others about something.
IE: If a class your were in everyone thought 2+2 was 5 but facts show it's 4, wouldn't you rather go with the facts, so next time you add your math won't be off ?
As I said this is just a suggestion for accuracy sake, please don't take offense.
Missy
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Copying over all discussion of the Jewish/Christian Sabbath from the FAQ into a new discussion thread.
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Talmid - what is it that you wish to discuss on this topic?
The Lords day vs Sabbath day?
Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday Sabbath?
what is "keeping" the sabbath?
or anything at all??
This is a topic that is find interesting that it is discussed at all. I find that people have some very unusual notions connected to the Sabbath.
The Lords day vs Sabbath day?
Saturday Sabbath vs Sunday Sabbath?
what is "keeping" the sabbath?
or anything at all
??This is a topic that is find interesting that it is discussed at all. I find that people have some very unusual notions connected to the Sabbath.
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Maybe all the diffrent questions could be numbered so when someone chooses to answer they can indicate to what aspect of the Sabbath they are referring to? Just a suggestion.
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So....
can anybody tell that I'm a freshman mod here? Didn't quite move the threads into another one like I intended... but hey, it worked. Now feel free to continue any Sabbath discussions here.
can anybody tell that I'm a freshman mod here? Didn't quite move the threads into another one like I intended... but hey, it worked. Now feel free to continue any Sabbath discussions here.
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LOL, Yeah, I am confused, when I posted on this a half hour ago I was the second responce, now it starts with something else, and I had to look to see if I was on the right page. Do you have a Copy Thread feature here? Is that how you did it?
I thought that you were going to take each question from the other thread and start a new thread by yourself using those questions, like you could quote whomever asked them so as to have the direct question, but all in one post.
I think I just confused myself.
I thought that you were going to take each question from the other thread and start a new thread by yourself using those questions, like you could quote whomever asked them so as to have the direct question, but all in one post.
I think I just confused myself.
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I'm not absoluetly possitive about this but what do you guys think about this statement possibly concerning christians and the Sabbath .
Romans 14
Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
<SUP>5</SUP>One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.<SUP> 6</SUP>He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;<SUP>[1]</SUP> and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks
Romans 14
Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
<SUP>5</SUP>One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.<SUP> 6</SUP>He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;<SUP>[1]</SUP> and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks
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Mods, I would like to know if this is to be a Messianic Discussion , or open for all to post to, like SDA's etc. Because I think there are other forums for that is there not?
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Reminder, Messianic Judaism Forum rules:
Non-Messianic members are free to ask whatever questions they want, they just are not allowed to debate them in this forum.
Messianics are also not allowed to denigrate non-Messianics or their denomination in this forum.
So please play nice and go back to discussing the topic at hand.
Non-Messianic members are free to ask whatever questions they want, they just are not allowed to debate them in this forum.
Messianics are also not allowed to denigrate non-Messianics or their denomination in this forum.
So please play nice and go back to discussing the topic at hand.
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MissytheButterfly
Back and Better than EVER!
This is just my personal opinion but I see it (this passage) as not really being connected to a "Christian Sabbath" since in my opinion there seems to be no such thing. On Sunday, Christians go to church for what is known as the Lords Day for worship mainly to Jesus. Many of them still do work on Sunday among other things that Jews don't do on the Sabbath.
But I will say that if a Christian wants to refer to Sunday as the Sabbath.. that's their business and their right. I just personally consider Friday from sunset to Saturday sundown to be the Sabbath.
In any event, I know a lot of Christians say, "There is liberty in Christ" so I guess they can do what they feel in that reguard. Far be it from me to judge them on it.
Missy
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I never get this issue.
Saturday is the sabbath - a day of rest - there are also Sabbath years (funny how those are no longer observed). Saturday as the 7th day of the week was chosen to commemorate the day that God rested after having created the heavens and the Earth. All in all, the OT is clear, that the Sabbath was to be a day of resting so that the people would remember that YHWH was God.
Sunday is the Lord's Day - the day of Worship for the followers of Jesus Christ. The early church made a strong distinction between the Sabbath and the Lords Day - as we should today. In fact, Sunday was a day of work in the times of the early church. It was not until the Emperor Constantine moved the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday for the whole empire, that Christians began to have Sundays off from labor. NOTE that he did NOT move the day of worship - Christians ALWAYS worshiped on the Lords Day, but only the REST aspects of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Aint History grand when you take the time to know it
What is also interesting is that the Sabbath was not intended by God to be a day of worship. In fact, it is not until the rise of the Synagogue (a Greek term interestingly enough) during the diaspora that the Jewish people began to meet for teaching and worship on Sabbath days. No where in the Mitzvahs is it listed to worship YHWH on any set day of the week.
I hold the traditional NT view of the Sabbath. God set aside the Sabbath day to be a day of holiness unto God - a day to remember who God is. I as a Christian, a living Temple of the Lord God am not so inclined as to only keep one day holy unto God, but rather keep EVERY DAY as a Sabbath day - HOLY unto God.
Saturday is the sabbath - a day of rest - there are also Sabbath years (funny how those are no longer observed). Saturday as the 7th day of the week was chosen to commemorate the day that God rested after having created the heavens and the Earth. All in all, the OT is clear, that the Sabbath was to be a day of resting so that the people would remember that YHWH was God.
Sunday is the Lord's Day - the day of Worship for the followers of Jesus Christ. The early church made a strong distinction between the Sabbath and the Lords Day - as we should today. In fact, Sunday was a day of work in the times of the early church. It was not until the Emperor Constantine moved the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday for the whole empire, that Christians began to have Sundays off from labor. NOTE that he did NOT move the day of worship - Christians ALWAYS worshiped on the Lords Day, but only the REST aspects of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.
Aint History grand when you take the time to know it What is also interesting is that the Sabbath was not intended by God to be a day of worship. In fact, it is not until the rise of the Synagogue (a Greek term interestingly enough) during the diaspora that the Jewish people began to meet for teaching and worship on Sabbath days. No where in the Mitzvahs is it listed to worship YHWH on any set day of the week.
I hold the traditional NT view of the Sabbath. God set aside the Sabbath day to be a day of holiness unto God - a day to remember who God is. I as a Christian, a living Temple of the Lord God am not so inclined as to only keep one day holy unto God, but rather keep EVERY DAY as a Sabbath day - HOLY unto God.
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Good points have been raised here.
And I will add a few things: the early church often used to meet daily, not just on saturdays.
Also I disagree that the Christian day of worship shouldn't be called a sabbath. Currently as our society practices it, it is not a day of rest. But it used to be, and a day of consecration to the Lord. For example, why are so many stores still closed on Sundays? Many Christians feel it is wrong to shop or work on Sundays, and as a matter of personal practice they keep it. Traditionally, it was "the Lord's day," set aside, and as such I believe it was meant to follow the spirit of the Jewish sabbath, although it is practiced differently. I'm remembering Chariots of Fire, where the hero even scolds boys for playing football and refuses to compete in the Olympics because it is on a Sunday. That to me is as close as you can come to the original sabbath as any.
However, with regard to the FAQ discussion, I think it is probably better to leave Sunday as a "day of worship" for the agreed reason that it would confuse some people to make sunday and sabbath synonymous.
And I will add a few things: the early church often used to meet daily, not just on saturdays.
Also I disagree that the Christian day of worship shouldn't be called a sabbath. Currently as our society practices it, it is not a day of rest. But it used to be, and a day of consecration to the Lord. For example, why are so many stores still closed on Sundays? Many Christians feel it is wrong to shop or work on Sundays, and as a matter of personal practice they keep it. Traditionally, it was "the Lord's day," set aside, and as such I believe it was meant to follow the spirit of the Jewish sabbath, although it is practiced differently. I'm remembering Chariots of Fire, where the hero even scolds boys for playing football and refuses to compete in the Olympics because it is on a Sunday. That to me is as close as you can come to the original sabbath as any.
However, with regard to the FAQ discussion, I think it is probably better to leave Sunday as a "day of worship" for the agreed reason that it would confuse some people to make sunday and sabbath synonymous.
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MissytheButterfly
Back and Better than EVER!
Thinking about it.. I wonder would anyone get mixed up though ? I mean Christians know what Sunday is and they seem to know what the Biblical Sabbath that Jews celebrate is as well..
So I don't know.. it probably doesn't even matter. In any event, I dont see everyone agreeing either way.. so something has to be settled on.. guess Talmid will make the call one way or the other.
Missy
So I don't know.. it probably doesn't even matter. In any event, I dont see everyone agreeing either way.. so something has to be settled on.. guess Talmid will make the call one way or the other.
Missy
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