Sabbath "Changed," - When and How?

[Nephi]

Hello,

I've read a number of Armstrongist/Messianic/break-away Adventist arguments about when and how the Sabbath was "changed," usually amidst plenty of references to either St. Constantine or Pope X#, generally based on (modern) Roman Catholic and/or High Church Protestant sources.

How and when do Seventh-day Adventists propose the Sabbath was changed, and how do you view Eastern Christendity never recognizing any changing of the Sabbath to Sunday by any authority?

Thank you and God bless.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Hello,

I've read a number of Armstrongist/Messianic/break-away Adventist arguments about when and how the Sabbath was "changed," usually amidst plenty of references to either St. Constantine or Pope X#, generally based on (modern) Roman Catholic and/or High Church Protestant sources.

How and when do Seventh-day Adventists propose the Sabbath was changed, and how do you view Eastern Christendity never recognizing any changing of the Sabbath to Sunday by any authority?

Thank you and God bless.

Does that mean you are a Sabbath keeper? Or are you saying the Eastern Orthodox church started out worshipping on Sunday?

 

[Nephi]

Does that mean you are a Sabbath keeper? Or are you saying the Eastern Orthodox church started out worshipping on Sunday?

Honestly my initial post was just interested in SDA, as compared to Armstrongist/Messianic, arguments about the Sabbath vs Lord's Day, etc. from a historical perspective.

But if you are genuinely curious, then I must say while I'm not personally a Sabbath-keeper, I can't say there are none within Orthodoxy in its entirety. I know that there are some traditions within the Eastern churches that observe it to varying degrees (Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church, for example). Also, I don't know if the EO church teaches that it "started out worshiping on Sunday" or not, so I cannot answer that.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Thanx for your answer....

My understanding is that it was slowly being adopted by some of the sects of Chrisitianity as early as the apostolic age and by the time Constantine adopted it as the 'official' religion of the empire, Sunday was chosen as it did not legitimize the disliked Jewish sect and fit better with the already established sun worship of the pagan religions of the time.

This of course was adhered to until the ascention of the early Popes and formalized in the various creeds, beginning with the Nicean counsel, iirc.

 

[Nephi]

Thanx for your answer....

My understanding is that it was slowly being adopted by some of the sects of Chrisitianity as early as the apostolic age and by the time Constantine adopted it as the 'official' religion of the empire, Sunday was chosen as it did not legitimize the disliked Jewish sect and fit better with the already established sun worship of the pagan religions of the time.

This of course was adhered to until the ascention of the early Popes and formalized in the various creeds, beginning with the Nicean counsel, iirc.

Most of the Armstrongist/Messianic apologists wouldn't begin to say that it began as early as the Apostolic age, so that's pretty interesting. Do you think, then, that some, or at least one, of the Apostles began the shift or that it was the immediate successors of the Apostles that did?

And are your thoughts the common belief in regards to the Sabbath vs Sunday issue within the SDA church?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Most of the Armstrongist/Messianic apologists wouldn't begin to say that it began as early as the Apostolic age, so that's pretty interesting. Do you think, then, that some, or at least one, of the Apostles began the shift or that it was the immediate successors of the Apostles that did?

And are your thoughts the common belief in regards to the Sabbath vs Sunday issue within the SDA church?

I don't know what all SDA's think about this subject but many traditionalists believe the same....

We know that there were powers that were at work in the apostles day to subvert the gospel.. powers that were identified with the man of sin, the papacy. We know that sun worship was rampant among the Romans, it's not a stretch to think the two were being joined together even at this early stage...

2 Thess 2:3-10
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Do you think, then, that some, or at least one, of the Apostles began the shift

To say that denies the apostles being filled with the Holy Spirit.... think of the story of Simon Magus and others of his ilk that would have perverted this new belief for power and gain.

 

[Nephi]

To say that denies the apostles being filled with the Holy Spirit.... think of the story of Simon Magus and others of his ilk that would have perverted this new belief for power and gain.

I see. Although being filled with the Holy Spirit wouldn't make them infallible, would it?

I don't know what all SDA's think about this subject but many traditionalists believe the same....

We know that there were powers that were at work in the apostles day to subvert the gospel.. powers that were identified with the man of sin, the papacy. We know that sun worship was rampant among the Romans, it's not a stretch to think the two were being joined together even at this early stage...

So probably during St. Paul's lifetime then, you'd say, that Sunday worship began to be introduced?

And to further clarify, do you believe that Sunday worship simply supplanted Sabbath keeping, or was Sunday "made" the Sabbath? And, according to traditional SDA understanding, it was a Pope that changed the Sabbath to Sunday, correct? I believe I remember reading a quote from Ellen White to that effect.

Thank you for the informative replies.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Google the book 'Romes Challenge' to see who claims authority for the change. It's a free PDF...

They identify it as their 'mark'... interesting isn't it.

 

[Nephi]

Google the book 'Romes Challenge' to see who claims authority for the change. It's a free PDF...

They identify it as their 'mark'... interesting isn't it.

Read most of it, particularly the part where they claim it as a Catholic creation.

However it seems like they just arbitrarily claim authority of having changed the day of worship without actually citing any specific councils, Popes, etc. It seems as though their claim is purely for the purpose of attempting to prove their authority to Protestants.

So while it's interesting it doesn't show that they actually made the change, just claimed to have done so.

 

[OntheDL]

Read most of it, particularly the part where they claim it as a Catholic creation.

However it seems like they just arbitrarily claim authority of having changed the day of worship without actually citing any specific councils, Popes, etc. It seems as though their claim is purely for the purpose of attempting to prove their authority to Protestants.

So while it's interesting it doesn't show that they actually made the change, just claimed to have done so.

"Pope Sylvester instructed the clergy to keep the feriae. And, indeed, from an old custom he called the first day the Lord's, on which the light was made in the beginning and also the resurrection of Christ is celebrated."--- Rabanus Maurus (776-856AD, the archbishop of Mainz, Germany, church historian) Liber de Computo (A book Concerning Computation), Chap. XXVII ("Concerning Festivals")

"Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days, which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, of the Sun, of the Moon, of Mars, of Mercury, of Jupiter, of Venus, of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he ordered to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose, Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day, in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God. The same pope [Sylvester I] decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day."
--- Rabanus Maurus, De Clericorum Institutione (Concerning the Instruction of the Clergymen), Book II, Chap. XLVI,

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Checking in... looking around.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

For many hundreds of years and even today in certain areas the Eastern Orthodox Churches worship everyday.

Sunday is just the central point on the calndar to us because our Holy Tradition teaches that Christ God rose on Sunday.

When we have liturgy on Saturday's, the Priest says 'Happy Sabbath' from the altar after the service.

The Orthodox Churches teach that the Sabbath is Saturday.

The rest is how we understand our cycle of worship.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

For many hundreds of years and even today in certain areas the Eastern Orthodox Churches worship everyday.

Sunday is just the central point on the calndar to us because our Holy Tradition teaches that Christ God rose on Sunday.

When we have liturgy on Saturday's, the Priest says 'Happy Sabbath' from the altar after the service.

The Orthodox Churches teach that the Sabbath is Saturday.

The rest is how we understand our cycle of worship.

Do you keep the Sabbath as it was commanded or just make a casual remark about the day being Sabbath?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Do you keep the Sabbath as it was commanded or just make a casual remark about the day being Sabbath?

We acknowledge it as being fulfilled by Christ 'resting' in the grave.

Then we have BBQ pork ribs.

What do you guys do on a Sabbath?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

We acknowledge it as being fulfilled by Christ 'resting' in the grave.

Then we have BBQ pork ribs.

What do you guys do on a Sabbath?

Spend the time communing with God in a more intimate way than can be done any other day of the week. We devote our energies to doing His pleasure and not our own... we study, we sing, we enjoy His creation, we do good for others, we visit the sick, you know, the things Christ has asked us to do. The Sabbath is a commandment of love, just as are the other nine.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Spend the time communing with God in a more intimate way than can be done any other day of the week. We devote our energies to doing His pleasure and not our own... we study, we sing, we enjoy His creation, we do good for others, we visit the sick, you know, the things Christ has asked us to do. The Sabbath is a commandment of love, just as are the other nine.

Doesn't sound any different than everyday activity for Christians.

Do you practice any liturgy on the Sabbath?

 

[reddogs]

Read most of it, particularly the part where they claim it as a Catholic creation.

However it seems like they just arbitrarily claim authority of having changed the day of worship without actually citing any specific councils, Popes, etc. It seems as though their claim is purely for the purpose of attempting to prove their authority to Protestants.

So while it's interesting it doesn't show that they actually made the change, just claimed to have done so.

I am doing a thread on how it was changed by the church, check it out...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7624283/

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

leaving.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

leaving.

Thanx for the heads up....