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Sabbath and the International Date Line!

Kira Light

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This is a confusing subject but the International Date Line is an imaginary line created by man to kind of make sense of time zones and what not. Well you can walk up to it and it will be Friday on one side, and Saturday on the other! Is one side of the line Holy and the other not?

The International Date Line and the Mark of the Beast

This website is a bit out there and I'm not even sure where its coming from. Basically the people who are just slightly more hardcore in their Sabbath-keeping than k4c follow the Jerusalem Sabbath. What is hysterical is if you are keeping Jerusalem's Sabbath here in the West, you keep... SUNDAY!

Where in the Bible did Jehovah God say that His people in the East are to observe the Sabbath day ahead of His people in the West? Did He command the Filipinos, the 3rd largest English-speaking nation, to keep the Sabbath nine hours ahead of the United Kingdom, which is the 2nd largest English-speaking nation? Did God order the Australians to worship on the seventh day of rest ahead of the Americans?

Thus, the Sabbath keepers living east of Eden and west of the IDL must remember that their secular calendars are one day out. For them, the Seventh-day Sabbath begins at dusk Saturday evening and continues until dusk Sunday evening.

Fun stuff! :)
 

k4c

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This is a confusing subject but the International Date Line is an imaginary line created by man to kind of make sense of time zones and what not. Well you can walk up to it and it will be Friday on one side, and Saturday on the other! Is one side of the line Holy and the other not?

The International Date Line and the Mark of the Beast

This website is a bit out there and I'm not even sure where its coming from. Basically the people who are just slightly more hardcore in their Sabbath-keeping than k4c follow the Jerusalem Sabbath. What is hysterical is if you are keeping Jerusalem's Sabbath here in the West, you keep... SUNDAY!

Fun stuff! :)

God honors the motives and intents of a heart seeking God's will through His word. Let me explain. We all know God blessed, sanctified and called holy the seventh day.

Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

And we know the seventh day is Saturday.

Saturday \Sat"ur*day\ The seventh or last day of the week; the day following Friday and preceding Sunday.

Since Saturday is the seventh day we know that it's the Lord's day.

Mark 2:28 "Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.''

We know Sunday is not the seventh day.

Sunday /sndi/ is the day of the week between Saturday and Monday.

Since Sunday is not the Lord's day it's not a day we should be concerned with.

Sunday (Day of the Sun), as the name of the first day of the week, is derived from Egyptian astrology.

Knowing this, if our heart is pure in keeping the seventh day holy as we know the seventh day, God will honor that. For example, let's say you live in Alaska where it's dark for long periods of time. If we calculate our scheduals to line up with Sabbath hours and keep them holy, in the same way we would calculate our schedules be to work on time on the other six days of the week even though it's dark for long periods of time, God will honor that.
 
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Byfaithalone1

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Since Saturday is the seventh day we know that it's the Lord's day.

As I read Leviticus 23, it seems to me that there were many sabbaths/holy convocations of the Lord.

Since Sunday is not the Lord's day it's not a day we should be concerned with.

Although I tend to agree with you that Sunday is not "the Lord's day," I must have missed your rationale for believing this to be true. I think you skipped a step. Can you back up and help us follow you from point A to point B?

Knowing this, if our heart is pure in keeping the seventh day holy as we know the seventh day, God will honor that.

And if we don't--can He honor that too?

For example, let's say you live in Alaska where it's dark for a long periods of time. If we calculate our scheduals to line up with Sabbath hours and keep them holy, in the same way we would calculate our schedules be to work on time on the other six days of the week even though it's dark for long periods of time, God will honor that.

You seem to have a fascinating perspective on who God is and the things that are important to Him.

BFA
 
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Byfaithalone1

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This is a confusing subject but the International Date Line is an imaginary line created by man to kind of make sense of time zones and what not. Well you can walk up to it and it will be Friday on one side, and Saturday on the other! Is one side of the line Holy and the other not?

The International Date Line and the Mark of the Beast

This website is a bit out there and I'm not even sure where its coming from. Basically the people who are just slightly more hardcore in their Sabbath-keeping than k4c follow the Jerusalem Sabbath. What is hysterical is if you are keeping Jerusalem's Sabbath here in the West, you keep... SUNDAY!

Fun stuff! :)

Thanks for illustrating the levels of sillyness to which we could take this discussion! ;)

BFA
 
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Byfaithalone1

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Since God created all, aren't all the days of the week technically "the lord's days?"

Some folks have decided that the Lord's Day is Saturday, others that it is Sunday. I agree with you that every day is a day that the Lord has made.

BFA
 
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k4c

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God honors the motives and intents of a heart seeking God's will through His word. Let me explain. We all know God blessed, sanctified and called holy the seventh day.

Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

And we know the seventh day is Saturday.

Saturday \Sat"ur*day\ The seventh or last day of the week; the day following Friday and preceding Sunday.

Since Saturday is the seventh day we know that it's the Lord's day.

Mark 2:28 "Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.''

We know Sunday is not the seventh day.

Sunday /sndi/ is the day of the week between Saturday and Monday.

Since Sunday is not the Lord's day it's not a day we should be concerned with.

Sunday (Day of the Sun), as the name of the first day of the week, is derived from Egyptian astrology.

Knowing this, if our heart is pure in keeping the seventh day holy as we know the seventh day, God will honor that. For example, let's say you live in Alaska where it's dark for long periods of time. If we calculate our scheduals to line up with Sabbath hours and keep them holy, in the same way we would calculate our schedules be to work on time on the other six days of the week even though it's dark for long periods of time, God will honor that.
:thumbsup:
 
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Kira Light

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I wonder, when God rested on the 7th day, did He do so in the Garden of Eden? If God is omnipresent then were parts of him not keeping the Sabbath? What about the parts of God that were not in that time zone?

It seems silly to believe that a man-made, imaginary line through the ocean could effectively change the Sabbath. If I still was worried about keeping the Sabbath, this would bother me.

Given everything I've seen from you, k4c, I'm surprised when it comes to this you just say the intent is all that matters. When you talk about God blessing and sanctifying the seventh day, you realize He was not on this side of the earth when He did that. The day he sanctified does not take place at the same time our Saturday does.

If intent is really all that matters, then why have a problem with non-Sabbath keepers these days? They still believe in 'rest', they just believe in doing it every day and that Jesus is their rest. The intent is still solid.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Kira Light said:
It seems silly to believe that a man-made, imaginary line through the ocean could effectively change the Sabbath.

No doubt it does.

Kira Light said:
If I still was worried about keeping the Sabbath, this would bother me.

Makes sense. If you remember that the Sabbath existed before there ever was an International Date Line, it might be easier to make sense of.

k4c said:
For example, let's say you live in Alaska where it's dark for a long periods of time.

This is a actually a more serious question. It's light for long periods of time. Sabbath keepers up there do have a problem with that. It's a question to which there is admittedly no easy answer to.
 
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k4c

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I wonder, when God rested on the 7th day, did He do so in the Garden of Eden? If God is omnipresent then were parts of him not keeping the Sabbath? What about the parts of God that were not in that time zone?

It seems silly to believe that a man-made, imaginary line through the ocean could effectively change the Sabbath. If I still was worried about keeping the Sabbath, this would bother me.

Given everything I've seen from you, k4c, I'm surprised when it comes to this you just say the intent is all that matters. When you talk about God blessing and sanctifying the seventh day, you realize He was not on this side of the earth when He did that. The day he sanctified does not take place at the same time our Saturday does.

If intent is really all that matters, then why have a problem with non-Sabbath keepers these days? They still believe in 'rest', they just believe in doing it every day and that Jesus is their rest. The intent is still solid.

Amen...we should anapano everyday in the Lord but we should only sabbatismos on the seventh day and work the other six days.

The intent is not seen in not keeping the Sabbath the intent is seen in why you keep the Sabbath. Keeping the Sabbath holy as commanded by God is an expression of God's Spirit working in us.

Ezekial 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

This is all so very, very simple. Don't complicate it to justify your disobedience.
 
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Kira Light

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Amen...we should anapano everyday in the Lord but we should only sabbatismos on the seventh day and work the other six days.

The intent is not seen in not keeping the Sabbath the intent is seen in why you keep the Sabbath. Keeping the Sabbath holy as commanded by God is an expression of God's Spirit working in us.

Ezekial 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

This is all so very, very simple. Don't complicate it to justify your disobedience.

It seems to me that the man-made imaginary line is what complicates things. The true Sabbath takes place on Jerusalem and Eden's Saturday. That is the 24 hour time period in which God rested and it extended across the entire universe.

How can you say that on one side of a man-made imaginary line it is a Holy day, and on the other it is not?
 
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VictorC

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Amen...we should anapano everyday in the Lord but we should only sabbatismos on the seventh day and work the other six days.
It isn't possible to be in a sabbatismos (noun, not a verb) on only the seventh day of the week, as sabbatismos is a permanent rest that isn't linked to a periodic day. You've either entered into God's rest and left the sabbath (sabbaton, another noun), or else you continue in the sabbath that was "made for man" long after the seventh day of creation, which was the origin of God's rest. God's rest is permanent and never ends, while the sabbath ended and repeated every week.

Hebrews 4
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.


1500 years of keeping the sabbath never provided God's sabbatismos, that remained "another day" to be attained by the children of Israel.
 
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k4c

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It isn't possible to be in a sabbatismos (noun, not a verb) on only the seventh day of the week, as sabbatismos is a permanent rest that isn't linked to a periodic day. You've either entered into God's rest and left the sabbath (sabbaton, another noun), or else you continue in the sabbath that was "made for man" long after the seventh day of creation, which was the origin of God's rest. God's rest is permanent and never ends, while the sabbath ended and repeated every week.

Hebrews 4
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

1500 years of keeping the sabbath never provided God's sabbatismos, that remained "another day" to be attained by the children of Israel.

I'm responding to your post against my better judgement because I know how you view the Scriptures. But for the sake of those you are leading astray I will respond.

If Joshua had given them rest? This has nothing to do with the day that God blessed, sanctifed and called holy at creation.

All throughout the Bible we find God using holy and sacred things to help us understand our relationship with Him but this does not nullify the sacred and holy things. It would be like saying marriage is no longer needed because God only used it to help us understand our relatinship with Him.

The word, sabbatismos is a direct referrence to the literal Sabbath day but the word, anapano is a referrence to the inward rest Jesus gives us in that we don't have to run around trying to be accepted by God because we are accepted in Christ. Jesus taught about Sabbath keeping all throughout the New Testament and He always referred to it has a litteral day.

Matthew 12:11-12 Then Jesus said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.''
 
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k4c

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It seems to me that the man-made imaginary line is what complicates things. The true Sabbath takes place on Jerusalem and Eden's Saturday. That is the 24 hour time period in which God rested and it extended across the entire universe.

How can you say that on one side of a man-made imaginary line it is a Holy day, and on the other it is not?

How can you say God is not real because He can't make a rock bigger than He can lift?

I know which day the Sabbath is where I live and I keep it as a sign of a creation and a Creator. I also keep it to testify that it is the God of Creation that I worship and love. Now if I lived on the other side of the world I would still know which day the Sabbath is in the same way I would know which day is Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Under the Old Covenant people were put to death for polluting the Sabbath day. I don't believe they were guessing which day it was nor do I believe God's chosen people who live around the world guess which day the Sabbath is nor do they guess which day Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday are.

This is not rocket science...:doh:
 
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VictorC

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I'm responding to your post against my better judgement because I know how you view the Scriptures. But for the sake of those you are leading astray I will respond.
I'm willing to accept the Scriptures as they read, with no need to force an alternate meaning onto them. That is the antithesis of leading anyone astray.
If Joshua had given them rest? This has nothing to do with the day that God blessed, sanctifed and called holy at creation.
You had made a point based on a link between sabbatismos and the sabbath, when no such relationship exists. Sabbatismos is used only in Hebrews 4:9 -no where else- and is referred to as "another day", differentiated from anything the children of Israel had before the death of the Messiah, spoken as "a promise remains of entering His rest" in Hebrews 4:1.

And yes, God's rest is the day sanctified in the first week of creation. That was His rest, and not man's rest that wouldn't be ordained until Moses. Hebrews 4:4 quotes directly from Genesis 2:2 to show the origin of God's rest, and this chapter refers to the provocation experience recorded in Numbers 14 as another example of a singular rest that has no relation to the sabbath. God's rest never ended since the seventh day of creation, and has never repeated as the sabbath did every week.
All throughout the Bible we find God using holy and sacred things to help us understand our relationship with Him but this does not nullify the sacred and holy things. It would be like saying marriage is no longer needed because God only used it to help us understand our relatinship with Him.

The word, sabbatismos is a direct referrence to the literal Sabbath day but the word, anapano is a referrence to the inward rest Jesus gives us in that we don't have to run around trying to be accepted by God because we are accepted in Christ. Jesus taught about Sabbath keeping all throughout the New Testament and He always referred to it has a litteral day.

Matthew 12:11-12 Then Jesus said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.''
As you mentioned, sabbatismos draws on God's rest that began the seventh day of creation, showing it has no relation to the seventh day of the week. Jesus taught about the law and the various components of it during the tenure of the first covenant, but there is no longer a temporal sabbath after the first covenant expired and we were given entrance into God's eternal rest, the assurance of an eternal inheritance:

Hebrews 9
15 ¶ And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.


It was the death of Jesus Christ that established the new covenant in His Blood; before this event the law mediated by Moses retained jurisdiction and Israel's transgressions under it had not yet been redeemed. After the resurrected Jesus opened the comprehension of His disciples, you will not find the promotion of the sabbath in Scripture any more.

Luke 24
44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.


God is still opening the comprehension of those earnestly desiring fellowship with God in His redemption. We do not need the message of a false prophet that detracts from communion with Him.
 
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BigRedBus

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In the ancient Near East at the time the Bible was written, sunset times and days of the week were easy to define.

There was no need for the concept of an international dateline (nobody could start from the Mediterranean and travel that far, or that fast).

There was no need to state what to do about sunset when in polar latitudes (because nobody from the Mediterranean would ever need/want to go there).

There was no electric lighting, so sunset was effectively the end of the day anyway. Nothing much could get done till it got light again. Sunset was (then) a sensible boundary point between one day and the next.

Everything worked just fine until a religion that originated in one part of the world expanded far beyond its original boundaries. And this is where the problem comes --when people in the new location try to superimpose the original rules onto the new situation. The parameters don’t fit the same way as before, because they were never intended to.

You won’t find an explicit answer to this conundrum in the Bible. The only thing to do here is to use commonsense and flexibility, so as to remain within the general intention without getting bogged down in the legalism.
 
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