SA failed before, is this new approach reasonable?

[mikenet2006]

Ive gone to several sexaholics anonymous groups in the past and have always failed with it. I'm giving it another go but this time I want to try something different. I want to replace the sobriety definition with my own, porn is the problem for me and I don't usually feel guilty for masturbation without the porn.

There are SAA groups where you can set your own sobriety definition but these groups don't have the members or number of meetings the SA groups have in my town. So I need the support of the SA groups but don't agree fully with the sobriety definition and feel there is little chance I'll go without [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] entirely.

What I want to do next week is attend another group, but this time set a sobriety date that is based on the last time I looked at porn rather than the last time I masturbated. This will allow me to demonstrate in the group the progress I feel im making.

That progress is important to me and I feel like right now I have no way to express it in group. I can keep saying that Ive been sober for a few days or I can say that my sobriety date is early this month.

The problem is I don't know how to approach this in the SA groups Im going to or if they'll accept it.

Has anyone here experienced a fulfilling sex addict recovery without going abstinent? Surely SA is not the only recovery belief system that has brought people meaningful and lasting recovery.

 

[mikenet2006]

I do want to add that i think I have something that will help carry me through which is filling my life with healthy activities and healthy people. Fishing, Hiking, Bike Riding, just getting out and having fun.

 

[If Not For Grace]

This is like the alcoholic who thinks he can go from liquor to beer and be less of a drunk.

While like the smoker who cuts down..before he quits it may serve some benefit, but all this can do for you is to say I went from being a physical abuser to a verbal one. The act of mastrubation is sex with one's self and is not considered sober by SA.

If you are an addict the first step is in admitting that fact. That means for the alcoholic he can NOT drink like "normal" or "average" people. It's like the person who is allergic to strawberries--sorry others can eat strawberries and not have a reaction but for the person who HAS the allergy even one bite from a berry can cause an outbreak. So No you can not claim soberity, but you can keep going to meetings and studying the literature and doing the daily readings.

Don't give up just because you can't get it perfect. Progress not perfection.

 

[mikenet2006]

Ive heard that, the idea that sex addicts can't expect to do what alcoholics cant do. Alcoholics can't drink a few beers, why should sexaholics be able to touch and expect to recover. The biggest problem with this is that sex is not alcohol. The program of SA bases it's 12 steps on the AA program since drinking and sex are both addictive.

In some cases this works long enough for a person to develop a real relationship in which case they probably start having [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] again as part of a natural part of life, In other cases it doesn't work at all.

One exception that makes some sense is the idea that you can have sex in a marriage and still be considered sober, but then again it's like a smack in the face to those who are single because here you have a perfectly reasonable exception which is applied only to a certain group within SA.

12 steps is fine, but im pretty sure the success rate of SA is lower than AA, and it's because the 12 steps were designed with a slightly different addiction in mind.

It needs tweaking IMO and personally I don't feel guilty for masturbating, at least not most of the time. What bothers me is the porn I looked at and the amount I looked at it, it's degrading. That's my problem and it's what I want to defeat.

Ive already admitted I have a problem and that I'm an addict. If what your saying is true then there is no way anyone in the SAA program or any other recovery program have been successful in recovery and I don't believe it.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Actually the 12 steps apply to any addiction. It's based on a 3-fold approach of Physcial, mental and Spiritual in one.

It's IF you are an addict...which you say you are. They have one for overeaters as well and no one lives without food either. It's when the "substance" becomes unamanagable, a compulsion.

Are you in a relationship, can you be faithful in a relationship? Does mastrubating continue when you are in a relationship? Porn?

I thought you had been in the program before? You know how they define soberity and Sex inside marriage is different than casual sex outside marriage. Hey If you can kick the porn, that's a start..despise not small beginnings. The important thing is that you are here. It will do you no harm to go to meetings and find a sponsor, I promise you that and there are those who have recovered.

 

[mikenet2006]

Being faithful, or things like prostitution were never the problem, the porn was a compulsion though. In my last relationship the porn watching didn't exist as long as I was in her company. She didn't live with me but would stay with me a couple nights out of the week, and at those times I almost forgot I had the problem, no cravings I mean.

Ive been to SA before this several times over a year ago, then again a few years back. Both times I left feeling defeated, it was just too much for me to hear that I shouldn't have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] until I'm married. It may be years before that happens, or it might not happen, I have so much work to do on myself before I'm ready for that.

I want the program to work this time but I want my progress to be heard which is why I'm thinking about giving 2 sobriety dates. One for porn and one for masturbation. Its been over two weeks since I looked at things that aren't healthy for me and I feel like I can keep it up, not ever masturbating im not sure about. I'm not even sure masturbation is wrong if it's not a constant thing I'm doing.

That's the big thing for me, whether or not I feel something is morally wrong. It's just going to be hard to go abstinent when I view occasional masturbation as a healthy part of being a human. The porn I looked at, particularly the content, is what got out of hand and made me feel guilty all the time, but im away from that for the time being.

I just want to be able to use the 12 steps and members of the group to my benefit while maintaining some of my own morals. I know I need a higher power and help from those seeking to get better, I really can't do it alone, I'm just saddened that some will believe that what I consider sober isn't really sober. That's the situation I'm faced with.

However I could be wrong as far as what sobriety I need because my beliefs are still developing, I don't know for sure yet. I'll be pretty open as long as the members of the group are understanding of my individual beliefs and we can talk about them.

 

[If Not For Grace]

prior to school we go to kindegarten-for me prior to working the steps I need to be serene. Sometimes triggers are opportunistic; like boredom, being anxious, or angry ans we feel a need...to DO something to chill, relax calm down--start each day with the serenity prayer and close each night with it and I promise you will not beleive the change you will feel in just a couple of weeks..any other time you feel the need is good too.

 

[mikenet2006]

I'll try, Ive been praying a lot. It does help but I do have some things I need to work out in the SA group before I get full benefit from it. These things I've been talking about (defining sobriety) is very important to me, not as an excuse to be able to live in addiction, but to find out for myself what is hurting me and what is not. I have a sponsor in mind now who Im going to call tomorrow. At some point I want to discuss these things with him so I can find a way to express my progress in the group.

Two sobriety dates is the only solution I've come up with on my own. One for masturbation and one for pornography. Ive made massive progress with not looking at the stuff that was hurting me, and some progress with not doing daily masturbation but again I have to find out whether or not that's even hurting me if I do it occasionally. Im deciding not to even do it when I don't feel like it, and I don't near as much as I use to. I still don't consider it wrong, or a sin, whether or not I can be the type who can maintain healthy and non compulsive masturbation is the question.

I guess one of my standing beliefs is that like eating disorders, sex addiction is different than alcoholism or drug addiction. All are addictive, (and I am an addict) but sex and food are natural and necessary parts of life. We are born with sex organs and all develop sexual urges that are unique to us. Our sexuality is a part of us. On the other hand nobody is born with a crack pipe or bottle of rum in there hands. That's something foreign, and I think recognizing the difference between addictions is important.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Getting a Sponsor is a GREAT thing. That's a big step. For me a calendar "date" is not a big deal. Working the steps and making progress--That's a big Deal.

Its not about sin. Drinking alcohol is not a sin. (Jesus did that). Sex is not a sin. AND
horsefeathers about what others think of you (It's none of your business anyway). The 12-steps are a Self Help Program--you are there for you not what others may/maynot think.

Addiction is about compulsions over riding logic and common sense and is about a Void. It is about EXTREMES.. Being out of balance. There is a 3 fold deal here. Mental, Physical and Spiritual. The 12 steps (regardless of the lette in front of the A) are applied and worked the same.

The only breakdown for the groups is people share ESH for more specific areas. The issues are self esteem, control, fear, detachment and are present in everything from SA, OA, NA to AA to Al-Anon. The manifestations may be more consistent based on substance of choice but the differences are negliable.

Attend meetings for at least 90 days BF making a decision about the group, go at different times on different days if possible (you meet differerent people based on their schedules) and you may get a whole different experience than from your orginal experience. Addiction is NEVER a one-trick pony. Let go of the small stuff. Aquaint yourself with the slogans, CAL, the philosophies of ODAT and JFT. You will not get well overnight.

I'm glad to see you giving this a 2nd chance-you have nothing to loose and there is no harm that ever came to any person from participating in a 12-step program. None.
Be genlte with yourself. This program is about healing, restoration. Let it begin ...

FLY = First Love yourself (that does not mean have sex )
JADE= Don't Justify, argue, defend or explain (Keep it simple)
QTIP=Quit Taking it Personally

Start a gratitude list-get some affirmations and develop some new and outside interests. What do you like to do for fun? Self Care is important. There needs to be work time, play time, family time , Me time and time for others. If you get busy you get better. Ready to get busy?

 

[mikenet2006]

I talked about this with a potential sponsor yesterday and to my expectation he explains the sobriety definition as no sex with self or outside marriage. (The standing belief in SA)

He was very considerate and listened to me which was important, but I need a wider range of opinions from within the group. The fear I have right now is that my beliefs on sobriety are going to be frowned upon. Perhaps viewed as an excuse from somebody who doesn't want to get better, or isn't admitting he has a problem.

I think my next step will be to email some of the members I know on my phone list to get as many opinions as I can.

Almost everything you and others in the group say, and most of the stuff I'm reading I agree with. The 12 steps are great rules to apply to my life, the serenity prayer helps me, and acronyms like HALT ring true for me. Ive noticed the Lonely in HALT is what often leads me to act out.

And what you said "If you get busy you get better." is one of the best pieces of advice I've heard and something I think about often. I want to fill my life with positive healthy things that replace the things that have hurt me.

I almost believe that to the point where I've questioned whether or not addiction groups will help me. Because getting busy for me sometimes means not thinking about sexual things at all, even in the context of recovery. I want to go fishing, bike riding, work with animals, anything to replace my problems with healthy things.

One of the reasons I dropped out the group last time was that I knew id have to rehash every problem I have again and again, which keeps the addiction and my problems fresh in my mind. I read things like (if we focus on the problem the problem increases, if we focus on the solution the solution increases) Then I wonder why SA doesn't start activity groups that go out fishing, walking, or even window shopping. Anything to fill our time with something besides focusing too much on the addiction itself.

I still have things like this to work out to find my place in the group because I want it to work this time. I'm thankful to have others who are having similar problems and have found recovery through the program. I guess I still have some warming up to with a few of the beliefs held though.