Rumsfeld apologizes, accepts responsibility.

[Western Deity]

How can you stand on moral high ground over the middle east while justifying what occurred by saying "Well they did this to us..."; that puts you on the same level.

And I saw the apology on TV last night, I thought it strange nobody noticed how he implied that if it had never gone public he would have never been sorry.

 

[Elyse]

Although I hate what our soldiers did to those prisoners, and I hope it's isolated (in spite of the rumors of more videos of rape and even murder), I am also concerned for all our soldiers over there when this escalates. And it will. And it's already bad enough over there now. Whether you are looking at this in humanitarian terms, or patriotic terms, or hopefully both---It sucks bad and there doesn't seem to be any good solution now.

 

[Doctrine1st]

.....still searching for an apology for buildings knocked down, or soldiers dragged through streets, or civilians hung from bridges. Stupid google - must not be working. M

Not trying to be a smart you know what but who is this apology going to come from?

 

[Doctrine1st]

Indeed. One thing I have found terrifying is the ease with which some (but not all) military folks can dehumanize whole groups of people, exempting them from any and all rules. I know too many Christians who believe that it is perfectly acceptable to lie to atheists, because they don't "deserve" honesty. Not a good witness...

Yes, it is terrifying, but for survivals sake both physically and mentally, and again I haven't been in the military, but I would see it as essential. A neccessary evil. As far as what occured in captivity, that is just a failure in the command to make sure things are done within the integrity that we were trying to display that makes us better as a democratic society. As far as Christians go, there is such as thing as the, "noble lie." I personally see Paul himself guilty given his claims in the Bible itself.

take care seebs,

 

[Blessed-one]

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[Yitzchak]

I am glad to see rumsfeld doing the right thing, whether forced or not. Taking responsibility is refreshing. Personally, I think this whole thing has the CIA written all over it. The CIA Has a long history of working behind the scenes when it comes to softening up prisoners.

 

[oldrooster]

They were to blame for most of the excesses in Vietnam.

 

[Yitzchak]

They were to blame for most of the excesses in Vietnam.

My point exactly. I cannot prove it of course. But with members of the bush adminstration's ties historically to the CIA over the years. Added to that, the 9-11 furor with the mandate for more money and resources being put into anti-terrorist concerns including espionage. I don't believe neccesarially that Bush knew personally. But some in his administration were willing to play dirty in Iraq. It got out of control and leaked. My theory ....

 

[Existential1]

I am glad to see rumsfeld doing the right thing, whether forced or not. Taking responsibility is refreshing. Personally, I think this whole thing has the CIA written all over it. The CIA Has a long history of working behind the scenes when it comes to softening up prisoners.

USA responsibility has to be unitary.
To accept the operation of executively unregulated elements: is to accept that the USA, in its international interventions; is an anarchic, uncontrolled, and unaccountable instrument.
Which qualities violate all national, international, and faith law, that I am aware of.
Real responsibility taking, entails repentance and rebirth: here to bring USA intervention into line with its own rhetoric; that it is an executive directed instrument for good, where GWB extnds that to be the fulfilment of God's purpose.
All of that falls, where direction becomes clandestine, executively undirected, and unaccountable to democratic and legal process.
Rumsfeld gives no indication that he intends any redemptive steps in this.

To my understanding: neither the OT, or the NT; allows for free-lance units operating in the darkness, and beyond the direction of either the CEO, or his representatives in the field: where, instead, the Biblical emphasis seems to be on transparent cleaving to covenants old and new.

 

[oldrooster]

You have MI5 we have the CIA, they are a law unto themselves.....

 

[Existential1]

You have MI5 we have the CIA, they are a law unto themselves.....

In both of our countries, there seems to be recognition that such unaccountability is no longer tenable.
Both of our countries witness powerful striving to make the institutions transparent, accountable, and subject to one unitary law.
No one, no one, can ever be allowed to remain above the law: even Jesus did not ask that for himself; where, even in deviating from its nominal detail, he strove to fulfill it, rather than disdain it.

 

[oldrooster]

However, there has to be a department that takes care of less than savory tasks. Thats what they do, I don't say that it is right, just a reality of life now.

 

[Existential1]

However, there has to be a department that takes care of less than savory tasks. Thats what they do, I don't say that it is right, just a reality of life now.

There should be no task, in a democratic and faith-led civilisation, that should be immune to transparency, accountability, and legality.
We are so big, so strong, so ascendant over our enemies: that if we forswore all action that could not be so t, a. & l; then we would still overwhelm them, and perhaps more effectively and efficiently.
Not least because others would recognise that we were indeed moral and consistent; and were thereby good friends and allies to have.

 

[feral]

I was glad to hear him apologize, but I was disturbed that he seemed to spend a lot more time covering his own butt then actually admitting his failures, begging for forgiveness and preparing to take action. His frantic claims that he did try to act would have looked much less arrogant had he thrown in more apologies and come forward before he was tricked or questioned. I happen to love Lindsey Graham now.

 

[Existential1]

I happen to love Lindsey Graham now

Who Lindsey Graham?