Rules for Bible interpreting...

[lig75]

Read between the lines on some posts. Anyway I see this subject is mainly for a few who monopolize it. I still think I see snobbery in some places.

 

[edjones]

Hay John, thanks for the kind words.
Hopefully I won't get banned from here anytime too soon.
I miss the other forum and all you guys.
Keep lifting up the Lord Jesus Christ,
ed

 

[Christsoldier]

I think when arguing with skeptics it may help to have different translations and be educated more thoroughly than your average lay person.

But, for the average person, especially a new believer, I always recommend an easy reading translation to get them started.

 

[filosofer]

Originally posted by Hervey filosopher:

I knew that this site said that the newer translations were better. However, i disagree with that statement !

Okay.

The site does give some very important information that is relative, and I thought that there was enough info, that was accurate, to bring this site to your attention.

Appreciate that.

And why do you say that my information is not accurate ?

Statistically people can make many statements that "sound convincing"; but upon closer examination the person could have erred in several ways. For instance, if we consider all New testament manuscripts (no matter which textual family), and consider a difference in two manuscripts even if only one letter in one place differentiates the two manuscripts. Then, check all other manuscripts on that one letter in that one spot. Then, consider all the possible variations of every difference in letters and/or words of all manuscripts in every place in the New Testament, that total number of differences is less than 2% of the entire New Testament text. So, 30% or 70% differences - well, it doesn't match the evidence.

Another problem is that many assumptions are made before these statistics are studied. For instance, if a person assumes the solution prior to investigation, that assumption very likely skews the data.

There are also logical fallacies made in some of the arguments, which need further examination.

One of the problems is that when a logical error is made, or an assumption is made, the one doing the study is often the least likely person to spot the error (true in any field of study). However, when questions are raised about the methodology or logic, some people become defensive, taking it as personal insult and so respond with a personal attack rather than examining the evidence and underlying assumptions.

For instance, if you disagree with a stated position, the person who made the original statement can attack you by calling you "snobbish" or by claiming that you are not really a believer because you don't accept that person's position. Such a response has nothing to do with the disagreement, and certainly does not address the underlying logical or methological error or assumptions.

 

[edjones]

Archaic Words in the NIV

BIBLE VERSE- NIV -AV
Ezra 9:5 -abasement- heaviness
Is 24:23- abashed- confounded
Ezek 40:18- abutted -over against
2 Chr 15:14- acclamation -voice
Is 13:8 -aghast -amazed
Ezek 40:13 -alcove -little chamber
2 Chr 13:22 -annotations -story
Num 31:50 -armlets -chains
Acts 2:6 -bewilderment -confounded
Ps 58:7- blunted -cut in pieces
Job 8:2 -blustering -strong
Ps 93:4 -breakers -waves
Ex 35:22 -brooches -bracelets
Is 57:4 -brood- children
Dan 10:6 -burnished -polished
Rev 4:3- carnelian -sardine
I Sam 13:5 -charioteers -horsemen
Rev 18:12 -citron- thyine
I Ki 7:6- colonnade -porch
Ex 13:3- commemorate- remember
Song 2:12 -cooing -voice
I Ki 4:22 -cors- measures
Gen 18:8- curds- butter
Zec 6:6- dappled- gristled
Gal 5:19 -debauchery -lasciviousness
2 Sam 21:5 -decimated --destroyed
Gen 40:6 -dejected -sad
Is 44:20- deluded -deceived
Matt 18:28- denarii- pence
Matt 20:2 -denarius- penny
Lev 21:12- desecrate -profane
Jer 30:16 -despoil -give for a prey
John 18:3- detachment- band
Ezek 13:22- disheartened- sad
Ps 7:14 -disillusionment -falsehood
I Pet 4:4- dissipation -riot
Ezra 2:69 -drachmas- drams
Hab 1:15 -dragnet drag
Lk 20:23 -duplicity craftiness
Pro 28:12 -elation -glory
Ecc 12:11- embedded- fastened
Ps 73:21 -embitter -grieved
Rom 2:20- embodiment- form
Mk 14:31 -emphatically -vehemently
2 Chr 30:22- encouragingly -comfortably
Pro 23:10- encrouch- enter
Ps 69:2 -engulf- overflow
2 Chr 17:14 -enrollment -numbers
Ps 45:11- enthralled- greatly desire
Lk 9:34 -enveloped- overshadowed
Eph 6:4 -exasperate- provoke
Ezek 25:7 -exterminate- perish
Is 14:8 -exult- rejoice
1 Ki 16:21 -factions -parts
Is 8:21 -famished -hungry
1 Sam 28:24- fattened- fat
Jude 16- faultfinders complainers
Song 4:5 -fawns -roes
Micah 2:2- fellowman -man
Ex 5:1 -festival -feast
I Sam 25:8 -festive- good
Deut 27:6 -fieldstones -whole stones
Acts 28:11 -figurehead -sign
Ex 28:20 -filigree- enclosings
Ezek 26:5- fishnets- nets
Is 30:17 -flagstaff- beacon
Ezek 34:21- flank -side
Ps 89:47 -fleeting- short
Acts 22:23 -flinging- threw
Acts 5:40 -flogged- beaten
Gen 7:11 -floodgates- windows
Is 16:2- fluttering- wandering
Is 59:13- fomenting -speaking
Josh 2:23- forded- passed over
Jude 25 -forevermore -for ever
Ps 104:26 -frolic -play
Is 27:9- fruitage -fruit
Jer 46:20 -gadfly -destruction
Is 24:8 -gaiety -mirth
1 Sam 18:8 -galled -displeased
Gen 19:1 -gateway -gate
Gen 41:3 -gaunt -leanfleshed
Job 16:8 -gauntness -leanness
Lev 11:30- gecko -ferret
Ex 2:12- glancing- looked
Hab 3:11 -glint -light
Job 41:32- glistcning -shine
Ps 30:1- gloat- rejoice
Job 10:21 -gloom -darkness
Ezek 39:19 -glutted- full
Is 51:17- goblet -cup
Gen 14:1- goiim -nations
James 3:12- grapevine -vine
Rev 20:14 -Hades -hell
Is 28:24 -harrowing -break the clods
Ps 44:19- haunt- place
Gen 2:10- headwaters- heads
Lev 11:19- hoopoe -lapwing
Ezek 17:17 -horde -army
Deut 14:5- ibex -pygarg
2 Tim 2:20 --ignoble -dishonour
Ezra 6:11- impaled -hanged
I Cor 15:50 -imperishable- incorruption
Hab 1:6 -impetuous -hasty
Amos 6:5- improvise- invent
1 Chr 21:1 -incited -provoked
Pro 9:7 i-ncurs -getteth
Heb 7:16 -indestructible -endless
Mk 10:41- indignant -displeased
1 Cor 12:22- indispensable -necessary
Is 44:11- infamy -ashamed
2 Chr 12:3 -innumerable -without number
Jer 48:30- insolence -wrath
Rom 1:30- insolent -despiteful
2 Ki 2:23 -jeered -mocked
2 Chr 34:11- joists- couplings
Deut 18:3 -jowls- cheeks
1 Sam 10:16 -kingship- kingdom
Acts 27:30- lifeboat -boat
Matt 2:1- magi -wise men
Jer 49:25- mainstay- chief
Job 12:6- marauders- robbers
Job 32:14- marshaled- directed
1 Sam 13:20- mattocks -courter
Job 13:12- maxiums -remembrances
Ps 81:2 -melodious- pleasant
Ezra 6:2- memorandum- record
Lk 19:16 -mina -pound
Acts 18:14 -misdemeanor- wrong
Rom 16:18 -naive -simple
Est 2:10 -nationality -people
Is 40:23 -naught -nothing
Gen 12:9 -Negev -south
Gen 6:4 -Nephilim -giants
2 Sam 19:7 -nightfall- night
2 Sam 4:5 -noonday- noon
Dan 11:43- Nubians -Ethiopians
Job 22:24- nuggets -gold
Lam 4:5 -nurtured- brought
Ezek 27:26- oarsmen- rowers
Ps 88:12- oblivion- forgetfulness
Eph 5:4- obscenity filthiness
Ex 29:14 -offal --dung
2 Ki 17:32- officiate -sacrificed
Mk 6:1- opportune -convenient
Job 28:2 -ore -stone
Ps 49:16 -overawed -afraid
Is 16:6 -overweening -very
Deut 22:8 -parapet -battlement
Lk 23:9 -piled- questioned
Deut 32:11 -pinions -wings
Est 1:6- porphyry -red
Is 20:3- portent -wonder
1 Ki 6:3 -portico- porch
2 Ki 20:7 -poultice -lump
Matt 27:27- Praetorium- common hall
Dan 3:3 -prefects -governors
Acts 13:8 -proconsul- deputy
Deut 21:20 -profligate -glutton
Ezek 16:26- promiscuity- whoredoms
Jude 12 -qualm -fear
Num 11:4 -rabble- mixed multitude
Hab 2: 11 -ramparts -tower
Gen 49:14 -rawboned -strong
Ex 8:14 -reeked -stank
1 Sam 13:21- repointing -sharpen
Pro 14:33 -reposes -resteth
Gal 2:9 -reputed- seemed
I Chr 16:32- resound -roar
Ps 76:4 -resplendent -glorious
Neh 9:25 -reveled -delighted themselves
Is 22:13 -revelry -gladness
Jer 2:30- revening -destroying
Jer 2:6 -rifts -pits
Song 1:13 -sachet- bundle
Est 3:12 -satraps -lieutenants
Ps 68:13 -sheathed- covered
Ecc 9:14- siegeworks- bulwarks
Ps 116:6 -simplehearted -simple
2 Sam 6:5 -sistrums- cornets
Mk 4:37 -squall- storm of wind
Rev 14:20 -stadia -furlongs
Song 2:9 -stag hart
Deut 4:45 -stipulations testimonies
1 Sam 7:9 -suckling s-ucking
I Ki 21:5- sullen -sad
I Tim 3:11 -temperate -sober
Ps 55:8 -tempest -storm
Hos 4:13- terebinth- elms
2 Ki 7:10 -tethered -tied
Lk 3:16- thong- latchet
Is 55:13 -thornbush -thorn
Ps 81:7 -thundercloud -thunder
2 Tim 1:7 -timidity -fear
Is 1:31- tinder- tow
Rev 12:15- torrent -flood
Ecc 4:6 -tranquillity- quietness
Phil 4:7 -transcends- passeth
Ezek 17:10 -transplanted- planted
Song 7:5 -tresses -galleries
1 Sam 14:19- tumult -noise
Gen 49:4 -turbulent unstable
Pro 28:16 -tyrannical -oppressor
Is 54:14 -tyranny -oppression
2 Ki 19:6 -underlings -servants
2 Ki 24:1 -vassal- servant
Job 15:25 -vaunts -strengtheneth
Job 20:23 -vent -cast
Song 1:16- verdant -green
Ezra 3:10 -vestments -apparel
Ps 112:10- vexed -grieved
Num 34:5 -wadi -river
1 Sam 15:2- waylaid -laid wait for
Hosea 14:4- waywardness- backsliding
Joel- weakling weak
Job 5:13- wily --froward
Is 29:6- windstorm -storm
Gen 32:25- wrenched -out of joint
Matt 21:41- wretches -wicked men
Is 11:6 -yearling -fatling

 

[Christsoldier]

edjones,

And, the point to your post is....... : )

 

[rkbo]

Ed that must have taken you a long time to go through the two versions. Oooor did you copy and paste it from someone who did? Either way, are you saying that King James english is easier to understand and more precise?

Hervey are you picking and choosing what you like and ignoring what you don't? Taking scholars out of context is something the JW's do. Am I making you steamed up yet?........sorry......kinda

 

[el44]

Hi,I don't know the meaning of most of those words so can't really comment on the use of them to understand scripture.
I have learned that the Word of God is opened up for those who want to understand it to get to know Jesus.Any help from other books is great just as more than one Bible is for seeing a different translation.Makes things quicker,but I believe the Word is such that all the things needed to undrstand the Word are already there.
I get a little on edge when presented with an idea backed up by other books telling me what this scripture means,without the backup being out of the Bible.
I'm kind of a Him'n me and my Bible kinda guy.I'm more than willing to listen to teachings,preachings and the like,but ultimtely it's Him'n me and my Bible that are the final judge as there is alot of stuff written in books,sang in songs,and preached and teached right out of the Bible that I don't believe for a minute.
I think the Word is more of a doing thing,and once doing understanding follows.Not like a lottery....more like seedtime and harvest.

 

[edjones]

Many in our day say, "Well, we have to have a new version, because we have to have a Bible that we can understand today. The children struggle with the King James. We need something easy for them to understand. Bla...Bla...Bla..."

This simply is not true. Harvard University analyzed various versions of the Bible, and they found the King James Bible was written at an 6th grade reading level. They found the NIV was written at the eleventh grade reading level. And all the other versions would require a college education for a complete comprehension. That is right, the Living Bible requires a college education for complete comprehension. Any sixth grader can read the King James Bible.

Also, the new versions have many more multi-type syllable words than does the KJV. They also have several more words that are three and four syllables than does the KJV.

Using the Fleisher/Kincaid Scale, Harvard University determined that the King James Bible is the easiest of all the Bibles in the English language to read.

 

[rkbo]

sorry ed I don't believe that the KJV is easier to read than the new translations. I know of no one ecept yourself that thinks it is.

God knows how to preserve his word even in the new versions.

 

[edjones]

God

The Source of Spiritual Understanding


The Bible leaves NO DOUBT that understanding is NOT a matter of "updated language" or "better translation". Understanding comes from God, Who gives it to or withholds it or withdraws it from men on the basis of what they do with His word.


The inspiration of the Lord giveth understanding, Job tells us Job 32:8. Understanding is not produced by an updated translation; by faith we understand, Heb 11:3! Where does such faith come from? From the word of God Rom. 10:17 ...he that heareth reproof getteth understandingProv 15:32. The word comes first, not the understanding.


For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding, Solomon wrote in Prov 2:6. Understanding comes from God, not "my language' or "updated translations." David was completely fluent in "the original Hebrew," yet he asked God, Give me understanding Ps 119:34, 73, 125, 169.


God demands reception of the words before He grants understanding.
Paul prayed for God to give others understanding. God provides that understanding through His word, which is breathed out of His mouth: Through thy precepts I get understanding, David discovered after asking for understanding Ps 119:104. Some disciples discovered that same truth on the road to Emmaus Luke 24:45. Even the simple-minded can receive understanding from God's word Ps 19:7, because The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding to the simple Ps 119:130. Today, people demand understanding before a person receives the words of God; God demands reception of the words before He grants understanding.


Perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? Jesus once asked His apostles Mark 8:17 Sin and the hardening of the heart can prevent a person's understanding the word of God. People can have their understanding darkened because they are ignorant of God's word Eph 4:8 -- yet people would claim that lack of understanding produces the ignorance and not vice versa. God removes understanding from teachers who reject His word I Timothy 1:9, hiding their heart from understanding, Job 17:4. When God removes a man's understanding, an updated translation does not restore it.

 

[Navigator]

Can we get a cite??

This simply is not true. Harvard University analyzed various versions of the Bible, and they found the King James Bible was written at an 6th grade reading level. They found the NIV was written at the eleventh grade reading level. And all the other versions would require a college education for a complete comprehension. That is right, the Living Bible requires a college education for complete comprehension. Any sixth grader can read the King James Bible.

Also, the new versions have many more multi-type syllable words than does the KJV. They also have several more words that are three and four syllables than does the KJV.

Using the Fleisher/Kincaid Scale, Harvard University determined that the King James Bible is the easiest of all the Bibles in the English language to read.

Please read this link: Bible Translations

They have the following 'grade levels' for the various translations:

NIV - 7.8
NiRV - 2.9 (a children's version)
KJV - 12..0
NKJV - 9.0
NLT - 6.3

(I'll note that the information for these scores come from the publisher's.)

Is this just more KJV-Only ULs cut and pasted?

 

[Navigator]

I did my own study...

Cutting and pasting the first chapter of Genesis into Microsoft Word, I can use the Grammar checker to give me a 'Flesh-Kincaid Reading Level'. The following are the results:

NIV: 5.2
KJV: 7.3
NLT: 3.0
NASB: 4.7

I'll grant that perhaps the first chapter of Genesis doesn't give a good reading of the whole translation, but that was my selected sample. I'm more than willing to repeat this experiment with any chapter any one chooses, and with any versions that I have available to me.

Peace.

 

[edjones]

Jesus’ Own View of Scripture

He believed in the Genesis account of creation
Matthew 19:4-6; Mark 10:6-8

He believed in the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch
Matthew 8:4; John 5:46; 7:19

He believed in the historicity and universality of the Noahic Flood
Matthew 24:37-39

He believed in the historicity of Abraham
John 8:56

He believed in the historicity of Sodom and Gomorrah
Matthew 10:15; 11:23-24

He believed Lot’s wife was turned into a pillar of salt.
Luke 17:32

He believed God gave manna from heaven to Israel
John 6:31,49,58

He believed in the Davidic authorship of the Psalms
Matthew 22:43

He believed in the historicity of Jonah and the whale
Matthew 12:39-41

He believed in the Danielic authorship of Daniel
Matthew 24:15

He believed in the unity of the book of Isaiah
Matthew 13:14-15; Mark 7:6; John 12:38-41

He believed the Jews had a history of rejecting God’s Word
Luke 11:47-51

He accepted the Old Testament Jewish canon,
but rejected the Apocrypha
Luke 24:44

He scolded the Sadducees for their ignorance of Scripture
Matthew 22:29

He taught that every word of Scripture proceeded from God
Matthew 4:4

He taught the doctrine of the preservation of Scripture
Matthew 5:17-18; 24:35; Luke 6:17

He taught that the Old Testament Scriptures pointed to Him
Luke 24:27,44

He taught that man will be judged by God’s Word
John 12:47-48

He taught the absolute authority of Scripture
John 10:34-36

He pre-authenticated the New Testament writings as Scripture
John 14:26; 16:12-13

He never corrected or criticized Scripture,
even though He did not possess the original autographs
John 17:17



He never involved Himself in higher or lower criticism or attempted to recover the original autographs.

He either knew Scripture was the Word of God and said it was, did not know if Scripture was the
Word of God or not and said it was, or knew Scripture was not the Word of God and said it was anyway. The first option is the whole truth of the matter.

Those who claim to be followers of the Lord Jesus Christ ought to hold the same high view of Scripture that He held. What right do they have to hold any other view? Obviously, no right at all.

 

[Navigator]

Hmmm... Jesus wrote (figuratively of course) Scripture... (or at least inspired the authors...)

and phew... thank goodness, I have a high view of Scripture...

care to respond to the grade level question you brought up?

 

[edjones]

TheKing James
Version is founded squarely on the Textus Receptus, which is in 90-95%
agreement with the five thousand extant Greek manuscripts. But the Westcott
and Hort text is in disagreement with them just about as much, and is
founded upon two of the worst of texts, Codex Vaticanus and Codex
Sinaiticus. Thus if you reject or look down upon the KJV, and settle for a
mutilated Bible, you go ahead, but count me out. I do not say that you
cannot profit from reading other versions. You can. But if they are based
on the Westcott and Hort text, they are immediately suspect and you should
be mighty careful that you check that version with the KJV as closely as
possible.

Now practically all versions of the Scriptures today, with exception to the
King James, are based upon the Westcott and Hort Greek text.

 

[Navigator]

That was a fair post...

didn't equate anyone with a Nicolatian, didn't call into question anyone's faith, allowed for personal conviction and put forth an argument to follow (W&H texts, versus the Majority texts).

You've come a long way ed... keep up the good work.

Peace.

 

[edjones]

Study your Bible WITH the help of the Holy Spirit.
You don't need any 'outside sources' -
you need to the Holy Spirit and
the Holy Spirit will work directly with you WITHIN the scriptures.
Is 28:9: Whom shall he teach knowledge?
and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?
them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10: For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line;
here a little, and there a little:

1Cor:2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth,
but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Cor:2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.

We need spiritual guidance
and that spiritual guidance comes from the KJV 1611 Bible!

 

[Navigator]

Actually, I believe our spiritual guidance come from the Holy Spirit... am I wrong?

 

[edjones]

Study your Bible WITH the help of the Holy Spirit.
You don't need any 'outside sources' -
you need to the Holy Spirit and
the Holy Spirit will work directly with you WITHIN the scriptures.