rosary question

[Albion]

There are "alternate" rosaries.

Something like these: Lutheran Rosary http://www.giftsofaith.com/Files/lutheranrosary.pdf
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The question has to be asked, "ARE those in fact 'rosaries?'

I say "No." The word "rosary" has long had a specific meaning, and that meaning is inseparably connected to a devotional directed towards Mary. And we know that praying to the saints is wrong.

To call Lutheran beads or Anglican Prayer Beads "rosaries" is like calling the head of any of our churches, "the Protestant (or Lutheran or Anglican) Pope." Well, they're not pope figures. The word "pope" has implications, and that's the case also with "rosary." It comes from the idea of giving a spiritual gift of roses to the Virgin when the rosary is recited, and also that she will answer and deliver on the petitions associated with saying these prayers in that particular fashion.

 

[synger]

While most people do indeed think of the Roman Catholic practice when they use the term "rosary", it also means, in general, a rope of prayer beads. The use of prayer beads goes back much farther than the RC rosary practice.

Historical note: our word "bead" comes from the old English term for "prayer", they were that tied in with prayer beads.

As to inquiring of the dead, most non-RC rosary prayers do not include the "Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners..." part of the Marian prayer. If they include the Hail Mary, it is the Scriptural section of it: "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ."

From discussions I've had, it seems that Catholics consider asking Mary to pray for them to be similar to me asking my husband or my sister to pray for me... since we are all part of the "communion of saints." Personally, I don't pray Marian prayers, because I see no scriptural use for it. But devotional prayer is definitely encouraged in the Bible, and using beads to assist one in doing so is just one tool that we can use.

So, for me, I consider contemplative prayer using beads to be "adiaphora". Neither required by Scripture, nor prohibited by it. Do it, or don't. It's a personal piety decision.

 

[Albion]

While most people do indeed think of the Roman Catholic practice when they use the term "rosary", it also means, in general, a rope of prayer beads. The use of prayer beads goes back much farther than the RC rosary practice.

The CONCEPT goes back a long way, but the WORD itself ("rosary") does not actually refer to those pre-Dominican sets of prayer beads. This was my point. The word, despite being commonly applied to all Christian prayer bead sets, does actually have a meaning which is the spiritual giving of a garland of flowers to the Virgin by way of praying the beads.

From discussions I've had, it seems that Catholics consider asking Mary to pray for them to be similar to me asking my husband or my sister to pray for me... since we are all part of the "communion of saints." Personally, I don't pray Marian prayers, because I see no scriptural use for it. But devotional prayer is definitely encouraged in the Bible, and using beads to assist one in doing so is just one tool that we can use.

I'd say that that is the Catholic DEFENSE, not the Catholic belief. To truly appreciate what the rosary is all about is to understand that in the case of Mary, it's not just "inquiring of the dead" but rather a devotion to the saint (as commanded by the Virgin herself, according to the legend) and with the expectation that certain benefits will come from that saint in return.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I'm thinking I might pick up a Lutheran or Anglican set and give them a try. I don't believe in praying to Mary or the saints, so the Catholic version wouldn't be the one for me.

 

[Rhamiel]

The question has to be asked, "ARE those in fact 'rosaries?'

I say "No." The word "rosary" has long had a specific meaning, and that meaning is inseparably connected to a devotional directed towards Mary. And we know that praying to the saints is wrong.

To call Lutheran beads or Anglican Prayer Beads "rosaries" is like calling the head of any of our churches, "the Protestant (or Lutheran or Anglican) Pope." Well, they're not pope figures. The word "pope" has implications, and that's the case also with "rosary." It comes from the idea of giving a spiritual gift of roses to the Virgin when the rosary is recited, and also that she will answer and deliver on the petitions associated with saying these prayers in that particular fashion.

see i agree with you, I would not call those sets of prayers "rosaries" but I thought it would have been rude to just be like "you guys don't know what a rosary is blah blah blah" I made this thread to see how some non-catholics view the rosary

 

[Albion]

see i agree with you, I would not call those sets of prayers "rosaries" but I thought it would have been rude to just be like "you guys don't know what a rosary is blah blah blah" I made this thread to see how some non-catholics view the rosary

Well, there are some few Lutherans and Anglicans who pray the 59 bead set you call the rosary, but almost always without using the same prayers as Catholics do. As for what they think the rosary is, I guess you can see that most do not give much thought to the full implications that Catholics attach to the rosary, but see it as a counting device. But that, after all, is historically where the item originated, assuming that we acknowledge that the use of a set of beads or knots in Christian history is older than the date that is believed to be that of the giving of the rosary by the Virgin to St. Dominic.

 

[Albion]

I'm thinking I might pick up a Lutheran or Anglican set and give them a try. I don't believe in praying to Mary or the saints, so the Catholic version wouldn't be the one for me.

As I recall, the Lutheran set was intended for use during Lent, whereas the Anglican set that is now used by many different kinds of Protestants was intended for use 'whenever and wherever.'

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

As I recall, the Lutheran set was intended for use during Lent, whereas the Anglican set that is now used by many different kinds of Protestants was intended for use 'whenever and wherever.'

Alrighty, thanks. I'll research it a little, but it sounds like the Anglican set is the one for me.

 

[Tangible]

If I remember correctly, the Lutheran prayer beads (like here) are pretty closely linked to our Small Catechism, and are probably to be considered a rosary in the very broadest sense of the word.

There is an interesting article on prayer beads in various religions at Wikipedia.

In response to the poster above who commented about 'vain repetition', here is a very good quote from a document at the LCMS website.

Many people are often bothered by the thought that repeating prayers, creeds and sections of the catechism by heart is the kind of "vain repetition" which Jesus condemned. "Doesn't this demonstrate a lack of spirituality?" they might ask.

To that question one must ask, "What exactly is `vain repetition'?" Vain repetition is the repeating of words with no faith in Christ, or with the belief that such repetition is a work through which we earn God's grace. The warning against vain repetition applies to any prayer which is repeated from wrong faith, including a so-called "prayer from the heart." Repetition is good. Vain repetition is bad.

The repetition of texts which are anchored in the Word of God enables that Word to penetrate deeply into our subconscious minds and to the very depths of our souls. The Holy Spirit continues to minister to us, even when we are unaware of it, through the Word of God which is learned by heart and repeated in prayer.

 

[sealacamp]

pray the rosary

I have no idea what that is.

Sealacamp

 

[Tangible]

I have no idea what [praying the rosary] is.

Probably best to ask for clarification from whoever might use the term.

Most generally, it us used by Roman Catholics to refer to praying a series of prayers with the aid of a string of beads to stay on track and to avoid omissions.

Here is a link to the Catholic rosary prayers. How to Pray the Rosary

 

[sealacamp]

Thanks for the link brother Domino.

Sealacamp

 

[Tangible]

Thanks for the link brother Domino.

Sealacamp

Aw, shucks. You can call me CD.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Deeply looked down upon by reformed circles.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Deeply looked down upon by reformed circles.

Any particular reason why?

 

[Albion]

Any particular reason why?

Since it looks like he may not be coming back to this thread mmediately, don't you think that 1) he was responding directly to the OP without having followed all the rest dealing with Christian Prayer Beads, etc. and 2) opposes the Catholic rosary for the reason most Protestants who know what it is all about also oppose it--because it is praying TO a saint?

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Since it looks like he may not be coming back to this thread mmediately, don't you think that 1) he was responding directly to the OP without having followed all the rest dealing with Christian Prayer Beads, etc. and 2) opposes the Catholic rosary for the reason most Protestants who know what it is all about also oppose it--because it is praying TO a saint?

Could be. It'd be natural enough for most Protestants to be against praying to saints. As Protestants go, I'm very much a Catholic and Orthodox sympathizer, and I'm not comfortable with it myself. But if Calvinists are opposed to all use of prayer beads, I'd like to know why.

 

[Rhamiel]

it makes no sense to be opposed to prayer beads, i can understand not wanting to pray to the saints, but using a string of beads to keep track of your prayers?
the rosary can be said on anything, the beads are not vital to the rosary, it is a colection of prayers and meditations

 

[Albion]

it makes no sense to be opposed to prayer beads, i can understand not wanting to pray to the saints, but using a string of beads to keep track of your prayers?
the rosary can be said on anything, the beads are not vital to the rosary, it is a colection of prayers and meditations

Well, the Catholic rosary is a collection of prayers and meditations that are specifically dedicated to and directed to the Virgin Mary. So that's the rub. On the other hand, anyone could just take the Catholic rosary and pray other prayers to the Father or to Jesus, as you are thinking. To the extent that there's some aversion to doing this, I'd guess it owes to shying away from a Catholic practice that is thought to be wrong, without considering all these qualifications we've been speaking of...or else it's the idea that we don't need to "keep track" or count anything. The original reason for using beads in the first place is lost on most Catholics and almost all Protestants.

 

[Rhamiel]

Well, the Catholic rosary is a collection of prayers and meditations that are specifically dedicated to and directed to the Virgin Mary. So that's the rub. On the other hand, anyone could just take the Catholic rosary and pray other prayers to the Father or to Jesus, as you are thinking. To the extent that there's some aversion to doing this, I'd guess it owes to shying away from a Catholic practice that is thought to be wrong, without considering all these qualifications we've been speaking of...or else it's the idea that we don't need to "keep track" or count anything. The original reason for using beads in the first place is lost on most Catholics and almost all Protestants.

all marian devotion is centered on Christ, i can not explain it properly, but when we think why Mary is blessed, it is because of the Grace of God, His saving power, Her Son is what makes our Lady special