Romeo and Juliet anyone?

[keith99]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25123570

Follow the link for the rest of the story. I picked my title because this could have ended up far worse than it did. I'll leave it to you readers to figure out the Romeo and Juliet reference.

And we wonder why kids sometimes show bad judgement when their teachers do things like this.


Calif. school defends DWI shock tactics

Students were told classmates had died in car wrecks — they hadn't

updated 4 minutes ago

OCEANSIDE, Calif. - On a Monday morning last month, highway patrol officers visited 20 classrooms at El Camino High School to announce some horrible news: Several students had been killed in car wrecks over the weekend.
Classmates wept. Some became hysterical.
A few hours and many tears later, though, the pain turned to fury when the teenagers learned that it was all a hoax — a scared-straight exercise designed by school officials to dramatize the consequences of drinking and driving.

 

[mont974x4]

Did it work? Only time will tell.



It is a good idea. We did similar things in the Army.

 

[keith99]

Did it work? Only time will tell.



It is a good idea. We did similar things in the Army.

Let's see. It was hours from when they told the students that some other popular students had been killed until they told the truth. They told 20 classrooms, others probably found out through the grapevine.

Of course all high school students are emotionally stable. Stop, think. Any cahnce someone was emotionally attached to one of the students they were told were killed?

No go back and read Romeo and Juliet.

 

[mont974x4]

I am well aware of the story, it was all over the news.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Why should we as young people trust anything the authorities tell us if we know they have lied to us at least once? It is human nature to be suspicious of anyone that we know has lied before...'fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me'.

This will only exacerbate the problem of drink driving...if the people involved didn't die, it clearly isn't as dangerous as they say it is (that's the thought). The government and police assume that we as citizens, and especially young people, are stupid. However, treating us as such only encourages rebellion. Their business ought to be to give us the facts as they really are and then leave us to make our decisions.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

There was a girl at my school who actually committed suicide and the entire school was in completely hysterics for the next week, and it was rumored that a couple other students that were close to her were contemplating suicide as well.

You don't trick High School students with things like this. In the Army and the Task Force you expect that sort of trauma. But High School students have ENOUGH on their plate and many of them are very stressed. Pushing this on them will only make it worse. Besides, it won't stick. For all the gory, blood-soaked videos we watched in Driver's Ed warning us about the terrors of drunk driving, come graduation day there were still people who got DUI's. Especially the younger kids. When they do stuff like this and then reveal that it's fake, it just makes them go "Oh see, it's obvious this stuff must not happen if they make it up."

 

[quatona]

What a stupid and counterproductive idea.

 

[LittleNipper]

I was in a 1st grade class where we were told by the teacher that blonds and blue eyed kids tested smarter then dark haired brown eyed students and we were not to mix while playing on the playground. I told the teacher (when questioned on the playground after being caught playing with one of "them") that JESUS loves everyone and that I would play with my dark haired friends regardless -- we were all the same. The teacher didn't know what to say, but later said that the event was a sort of scientific test and had been tried elsewhere. They wanted to see how the students would react/behave.

Those without moral convictions seemed to simply accept what the teacher said. If the authority says it's so, well it must be so.

 

[mpok1519]

Lying and brainwashing and forcing falsehoods into one's psyche is a good thing? lol lol lol Or military is screwed up for those very reasons. Of course a soldier will support an unjust war; they don't know the facts! lol of course the students were scared...for a moment before the realized everyone around them would rather lie to them than tell them the truth in order to get them to jump through hoops like a circus dog. But afterwards, they felt so abused and mistreated by the system they think is trying to protect them, that they all got plastered drunk in order to kill the confusion and pain.

So much "thou shalt not lie" I hear going on in this thread. =P

You don't use these brainwashing tactics on students OR military inductees; the truth will set you free, even though most can't handle it.

 

[mpok1519]

man's authority is wrong alot of the time. things like this are proof....

Although I can se the Kantian Categorical Imperative at work in the teachers' ways.....I just don't agree with the means of their Imperative....

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

man's authority is wrong alot of the time. things like this are proof....

Although I can se the Kantian Categorical Imperative at work in the teachers' ways.....I just don't agree with the means of their Imperative....

How can you see the categorical imperative at work may I ask? Surely the imperative says we must never lie, so this is a direct contravention of it.

 

[quatona]

How can you see the categorical imperative at work may I ask? Surely the imperative says we must never lie, so this is a direct contravention of it.

Gotta disagree with you here, Robbie. The Categorical Imperative doesn´t say that - neither clearly not at all.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Gotta disagree with you here, Robbie. The Categorical Imperative doesn´t say that - neither clearly not at all.

I thought Kant argued that to lie is to will that you are believed, and will at the same time that there is a principle of telling the truth so people believe you, so when you lie it is impossible to will it as a universal maxim?

Of course I tend to doodle in my philosophy seminars, so in all likelihood I've got this wrong. Not to mention that I gave up pretty quickly on the Groundwork...

 

[Steezie]

In my last year of high school, we had a young man fall asleep at the wheel and crashed. The crash killed him instantly.

When the school learned about this we had probably hundreds of students who came to the school's grief counselors. The entire school was a mess for almost a week. Several of his closest friends actually disappeared for a few weeks.

The level of stress and anxiety that resulted from that was incredible. Lying about something like that would have probably caused riots and I would have been right there with them hucking bricks.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I find it disgusting. If that happened in my school, I'd pack my bag and walk out.

Just my two pence.

 

[RavenPoe]

And when one of these students has a bill from a psychotherapist for dealing with the trauma, do you think the school is going to pay it and still think it was a good idea?

What if one of the students did go all "Romeo" over this? Would the school be held responsible for their death? Deception is not the answer!

 

[mpok1519]

How can you see the categorical imperative at work may I ask? Surely the imperative says we must never lie, so this is a direct contravention of it.

from what I understand, the categorical imperative suggests doing the right thing for the right reasons, doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, and doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. y'know....its weird....depending upon the category...and the imperative.

 

[lawtonfogle]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25123570

Follow the link for the rest of the story. I picked my title because this could have ended up far worse than it did. I'll leave it to you readers to figure out the Romeo and Juliet reference.

And we wonder why kids sometimes show bad judgement when their teachers do things like this.


Calif. school defends DWI shock tactics

Students were told classmates had died in car wrecks — they hadn't

updated 4 minutes ago

OCEANSIDE, Calif. - On a Monday morning last month, highway patrol officers visited 20 classrooms at El Camino High School to announce some horrible news: Several students had been killed in car wrecks over the weekend.
Classmates wept. Some became hysterical.
A few hours and many tears later, though, the pain turned to fury when the teenagers learned that it was all a hoax — a scared-straight exercise designed by school officials to dramatize the consequences of drinking and driving.

I personally think this is a great idea. It gets the important message into the system of the teenagers (young adults who are about to enter the world) that you can't trust those over you. That until who ever is your next authority proves to you they aren't a lying cheating ... then you shouldn't trust them.

Wonder how they will react the next time someone pulls this trick and tells them that some they know had died... even if that person actually did die.

If you lied to me about a close friend dieing, how can I trust you to not lie about the less important things?

 

[lawtonfogle]

I thought Kant argued that to lie is to will that you are believed, and will at the same time that there is a principle of telling the truth so people believe you, so when you lie it is impossible to will it as a universal maxim?

Of course I tend to doodle in my philosophy seminars, so in all likelihood I've got this wrong. Not to mention that I gave up pretty quickly on the Groundwork...

Doodling is much better than the other favorite activity, sleeping.

I also wrote a paper during one... it was on an idea I had concerning some form of morality.

By far my most favorite activity was debating, and discussing, with the professor. What was really fun was when the Professor and I tag teamed someone else who hadn't done enough homework.

I got the same Prof next semester for logic... that will be fun (no, seriously, logic is fun).

Anyways, Kant said that you shouldn't lie, because then you couldn't be trusted not to lie (that is of course paraphrased... what he actually said took up a few dozen pages).

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Doodling is much better than the other favorite activity, sleeping.

I also wrote a paper during one... it was on an idea I had concerning some form of morality.

By far my most favorite activity was debating, and discussing, with the professor. What was really fun was when the Professor and I tag teamed someone else who hadn't done enough homework.

I got the same Prof next semester for logic... that will be fun (no, seriously, logic is fun).

Anyways, Kant said that you shouldn't lie, because then you couldn't be trusted not to lie (that is of course paraphrased... what he actually said took up a few dozen pages).

Aah I hated logic...the only reason I (and hordes of flustered looking girls who got there suspiciously early) carried on going was that the lecturer was hot. So hot in fact, I might do Logic II next year. I will of course fail, but it'll be worth it.