Romans

[Jerrysch]

Where did the gentiles who were living in Rome get the gospel? That is who presented the gospel to the gentiles who lived in Rome?

 

[biblebeliever123]

Actually I don't think it's stated 'who' was the founder 'in person' of the church at Rome. We can go to Pauline doctrine though and see that Paul was FIRST ONE given the revelation of the mystery and he (paul) made it known to others.
We can see that Paul is the pattern 1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
We see that Paul is THE apostle to the gentiles...Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
We see that Paul is the one that the Lord Jesus Christ uses to 'beget' people through the gospel message he preached.
1 Corinthians 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

Time and again in all his epistles he confirms his especial apostleship, ministry, and message committed to him to give to us.

He himself set the pattern for this principle...teaching others what he had been given by direct revelation. We have received it of Paul and are to pass it to others.
2 Timothy 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

If we speculate, we could speculate that one of the dear ones he greeted in the 16th chapter of Romans, someone that he had begotten through the gospel, someone he had taught and committed to that brother so that he could teach others also.

I don't speculate though about this...but rather through application of the pauline doctrine given above conclude that Paul was their 'father' (spiritual father if you will, please people do NOT deliberately misunderstand that word, but understand it as seen in 1 Cor. 4:15)

 

[Jerrysch]

Actually I don't think it's stated 'who' was the founder 'in person' of the church at Rome. We can go to Pauline doctrine though and see that Paul was FIRST ONE given the revelation of the mystery and he (paul) made it known to others.
We can see that Paul is the pattern 1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
We see that Paul is THE apostle to the gentiles...Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
We see that Paul is the one that the Lord Jesus Christ uses to 'beget' people through the gospel message he preached.
1 Corinthians 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

Time and again in all his epistles he confirms his especial apostleship, ministry, and message committed to him to give to us.

He himself set the pattern for this principle...teaching others what he had been given by direct revelation. We have received it of Paul and are to pass it to others.
2 Timothy 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

If we speculate, we could speculate that one of the dear ones he greeted in the 16th chapter of Romans, someone that he had begotten through the gospel, someone he had taught and committed to that brother so that he could teach others also.

I don't speculate though about this...but rather through application of the pauline doctrine given above conclude that Paul was their 'father' (spiritual father if you will, please people do NOT deliberately misunderstand that word, but understand it as seen in 1 Cor. 4:15)

I think you are dogging the question. We have been told here that only Paul spread the gospel to the gentiles, and I am in light of this asking who it was who brought the gospel to Rome. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, you know.

 

[eph3Nine]

Shes not dodging anything. Shes simply not going to involve herself in SPECULATION when the scriptures give us the information we need to understand the difference between PROPHETIC doctrine and MYSTERY doctrine.

We dont do well with trick questions here, nor are we about to be led down some path where we choose not to walk by someone with an agenda. Not speaking of YOU, of course, but anyone who comes here trying to get us off onto some rabbit trail.

 

[timlamb]

I think you are dogging the question. We have been told here that only Paul spread the gospel to the gentiles, and I am in light of this asking who it was who brought the gospel to Rome. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, you know.

Yeh Jerry, dodging bating and trick questions are only acceptable when done by them. I got the same dog and pony act when bb123 finally responded to 1 Cor. 9:19-23.

Paul taught the one Gospel to jew and gentile alike. It is so obvious that, though his ministry was primarily Gentile, he preached the Gospel to any who would listen. He went from Christian hater to preaching in the synagogues so fast, every thing was "revealed Mystery" to him.

 

[eph3Nine]

It is literally IMPOSSIBLE to "dodge" that which is not claimed by scripture. NO ONE KNOWS the answer to the question posed. If someone thinks they do...then please POST it and stop with the game playing.

 

[timlamb]

It is literally IMPOSSIBLE to "dodge" that which is not claimed by scripture. NO ONE KNOWS the answer to the question posed. If someone thinks they do...then please POST it and stop with the game playing.

You dodge the question by rambleing off in a different direction without admitting you don't know. And bb123 is good at that and so are you.

 

[Tychicum]

I'll bite.

Paul was in Rome.

No Scriptural evidence of any other Apostle.

Last heard of Peter was still in Jerusalem keeping his agreement to contain his preaching to the Jews.

No Scripture evidence exists Peter broke his word.

There are all kinds of fables believed by one denomination or another ... some wear funny hats and others funny dresses all by tradition.

FWIW I believe that the tradition of men is the Scripture's enemy.

(PS BB123 provided a solid honest answer ... just because you yourself don't know doesn't give anyone license to badger someone else giving an honest answer )

 

[biblebeliever123]

I didn't dodge. I answered with scripture as best I knew. Do you know?? If you do, please enlighten!

No baiting, no dodging, that's all false accusations, which timlamb has done repeatedly. By all means timlamb give us the answer. It would require you to actually go look in the Bible... Romans it's right after Acts, right before 1 Corinthians in case you need direction. You come in, hurl a flip remark and don't even so much as offer a possible answer to the question (which by the way, it wasn't my question...so how could it be 'baiting'? ) You seem to only be interested in striving and not interested in actually contributing to a discussion or thread with a scriptural answer. Try growing up and contributing some answers. You don't like anything scriptural that I put in the thread so please shed some light...instead of just heat.

 

[Jerrysch]

We dont do well with trick questions here, nor are we about to be led down some path where we choose not to walk by someone with an agenda. Not speaking of YOU, of course, but anyone who comes here trying to get us off onto some rabbit trail.

I think we have gone over this before... I am giving those here who are presenting this doctrine an opportunity to present it, when it isn't presented clearly to my simple mind... I ask for clarification. If you considered your stance to be , well bulitproof, you would welcome an opportunity to demonstrate that character of your belief. Instead all that is presented is your suggestion that I am trying to trip you up. Do you consider this to be a game where we are trying to win tricks and then at some time the winner will be awarded a big prize? I am trying to get to the bottom of this doctrine which you are presenting and seeking to get the information from those who support it, without twisting their words to mean what they did not intend, that is why I have asked so many questions form 3 or 4 different directions. I would have thought you'd relish the opportunity to present your thoughts. When your doctrine did not appear to mesh with the Scriptures I have brought these apparant inconsistancies up, apparantly you view this as some sort of game or "agenda" well, I will admit that I do have an agenda, it is to understand the Word of God and to protect that understanding from error, if there are those here who are threatened by that, well that is a different issue.

 

[Jerrysch]

I didn't dodge. I answered with scripture as best I knew. Do you know?? If you do, please enlighten!

I am not baiting anyone, where does this come from? Are we in some contest here? Are we after the truth or what? Do we get points for "winning" a discussion? How many points do I have? What can I use them for?? I don't get it. I thought you all knew me better, baiting?

 

[TheScottsMen]

Yeh Jerry, dodging bating and trick questions are only acceptable when done by them. I got the same dog and pony act when bb123 finally responded to 1 Cor. 9:19-23.

Paul taught the one Gospel to jew and gentile alike. It is so obvious that, though his ministry was primarily Gentile, he preached the Gospel to any who would listen. He went from Christian hater to preaching in the synagogues so fast, every thing was "revealed Mystery" to him.

What question did you have regarding Cor. 9:19-23?

 

[timlamb]

What question did you have regarding Cor. 9:19-23?

No question, except to hear how they explain that scripture in light of their teaching that paul had some revelation of mystery that he could only share with the gentiles. Paul was a good preacher in that he preached to the needs of his audience the one true gospel, God's Grace through Jesus Christ.

 

[biblebeliever123]

I am not baiting anyone, where does this come from? Are we in some contest here? Are we after the truth or what? Do we get points for "winning" a discussion? How many points do I have? What can I use them for?? I don't get it. I thought you all knew me better, baiting?

Not directed at you jerry (excuse me for not making that plain) ....actually timlamb made the wisecrack about 'baiting' so that was really more to answer him.
I answered the question best I knew from scripture...and no there is no contest, that's exactly the point ...amen!! I'm not here to strive about words... I just give what I believe from God's Word. I gave my answer plain and simple and folks can take it or leave it...it all comes back to each one must study to show himself/herself approved unto God...an unashamed workman ( and I do know enough from your posts that you agree with that !)

 

[timlamb]

Not directed at you jerry (excuse me for not making that plain) ....actually timlamb made the wisecrack about 'baiting' so that was really more to answer him.
I answered the question best I knew from scripture...and no there is no contest, that's exactly the point ...amen!! I'm not here to strive about words... I just give what I believe from God's Word. I gave my answer plain and simple and folks can take it or leave it...it all comes back to each one must study to show himself/herself approved unto God...an unashamed workman ( and I do know enough from your posts that you agree with that !)

I was making a general statement about the methods used by the controlling group of this thread. Eph3nine is the one who baits, but most all of you have refused to backup statements about your belief, dodging contraversial scripture.

I went back and reread your post on cor. 9 and actually agreed with some of it. But you seem to put paul in a different light under that scripture than you previously had. You admit paul taught the gospel to all men and then finish by saying the gospel for one is still different that the gospel for another, that is not what that scripture says. First you seem to be agreeing with the scripture then you add your doctrine to it. I felt that you were dodging the true meaning of the scripture. I don't know how you can read that scripture and believe paul is doing anything but bringing salvation to all men with one gospel.

I must appologise for my words spoken in frustration. I have been on the defencive due to the posting of one person here and I have been behaving in an un-Christian manor, sorry.

 

[Tychicum]

No question, except to hear how they explain that scripture in light of their teaching that paul had some revelation of mystery that he could only share with the gentiles. Paul was a good preacher in that he preached to the needs of his audience the one true gospel, God's Grace through Jesus Christ.

Paul taught only one Gospel ... it was Peter and James who had taught another.

If you say that there is only "one" gospel ... why did Paul call it "another gospel" ... ?

Galatians 1:6-7 KJV I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

When is it another gospel ... but yet not another? Something different ... similar ... but different enough to call it "another" ... ?

When it comes from the "James gang" hanging out in Jerusalem who had come to stir up trouble at the church in Antioch. Judaizers. Those who continued to teach the Law even blend it in with simple Grace.

Galatians 2:11-16 KJV But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. (12) For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. (13) And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation. (14) But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? (15) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, (16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul chewed Peter out for his hypocrisy in front of everyone else!!!

How bad is that ... ? Paul getting angry in front of the whole church at Peter for his bad behavior.

So when you say that there is only one gospel ... and they all taught the same thing you are simply, utterly and completely wrong ... because you haven't looked into it deeply enough. You are parroting what some TV preacher may have said ...

Paul actually put a CURSE ... one of the very few in Scripture ... on those who would preach "ANOTHER GOSPEL" ...

Galatians 1:8-9 KJV (8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

So when you say that there is only one ... are you suggesting that Paul was boxing shadows? That he was simply paranoid?

No.

That there was more than one version going around ... and that no matter how appropriate that other in another dispensation it was NOT to be preached in this new dispensation.

 

[eph3Nine]

AAAAmen Tychie! Preach it brother....

 

[CCWoody]

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[timlamb]

What is the good news(gospel)? It is Chrtist sacrificed and then risen for the salvation of all men. It was prophecied BC. Jesus told what would happen to Him and why; they didn't understand, and appearantly many still don't.

There is only one Good news to preach concerning Christ, Paul was a late commer but he certainly got excited about it.

As it says in corrinthians, he became all things to all people to spread THE gospel.

Jerry, Sorry for my part in getting your thread off track.

When a simple scripture like Gal. 1:6-7 can be so badly misinterpreted, there doesn't seem to be any central point of logic to work from.

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perrish, but have everlasting life."

The Gospel(Good news), and all we really need to know for salvation. AMEN!!!

 

[eph3Nine]

Paul taught only one Gospel ... it was Peter and James who had taught another.

If you say that there is only "one" gospel ... why did Paul call it "another gospel" ... ?

When is it another gospel ... but yet not another? Something different ... similar ... but different enough to call it "another" ... ?

When it comes from the "James gang" hanging out in Jerusalem who had come to stir up trouble at the church in Antioch. Judaizers. Those who continued to teach the Law even blend it in with simple Grace.

Paul chewed Peter out for his hypocrisy in front of everyone else!!!

How bad is that ... ? Paul getting angry in front of the whole church at Peter for his bad behavior.

So when you say that there is only one gospel ... and they all taught the same thing you are simply, utterly and completely wrong ... because you haven't looked into it deeply enough. You are parroting what some TV preacher may have said ...

Paul actually put a CURSE ... one of the very few in Scripture ... on those who would preach "ANOTHER GOSPEL" ...

So when you say that there is only one ... are you suggesting that Paul was boxing shadows? That he was simply paranoid?

No.

That there was more than one version going around ... and that no matter how appropriate that other in another dispensation it was NOT to be preached in this new dispensation.

Excellent points made Tychie. If folks would just take a minute and THINK these things thru, they just might have a METANOIA moment: ie: a change of mind. This, after all, IS what God is after for ALL of us.