Romans 2: 13-15

[pulseworm]

for not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

is Paul saying people who have not heard the name Jesus can go to Heaven if they have Jesus in their hearts?

 

[apenman]

for not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

is Paul saying people who have not heard the name Jesus can go to Heaven if they have Jesus in their hearts?

Something like that. It kind of begs the question, how were Gentiles saved before the sacrifice of Christ??

 

[VT2A&M]

Can you have Jesus in your heart without hearing about him?

VT

 

[apenman]

Can you have Jesus in your heart without hearing about him?

VT

A person can certainly be saved without hearing about Christ.

 

[raphael_aa]

Can you have Jesus in your heart without hearing about him?

VT

IMO one can 'Jesus in their heart' without hearing of Him OR, having heard of Him, without explicitly 'accepting' Him. I think it was Karl Barth who had the notion of the 'anonymous' christian, one who follows the Way of Christ without consciously knowing he is doing so.

I know many of my more conservative brethren will dispute this.

 

[Carrye]

How would you define "having Jesus in your heart"?

 

[Foon Nerfdahl]

God judges the heart. Our actions show our heart.

Actions of love show that one is a friend of God.

Of course people other than Christians go to heaven if they "Love God and neighbor" and do actions that show that they are a friend of God.

How could anyone think otherwise?

 

[apenman]

God judges the heart. Our actions show our heart.

Actions of love show that one is a friend of God.

Of course people other than Christians go to heaven if they "Love God and neighbor" and do actions that show that they are a friend of God.

 

[SpaceMonk]

God judges the heart. Our actions show our heart.

Actions of love show that one is a friend of God.

Of course people other than Christians go to heaven if they "Love God and neighbor" and do actions that show that they are a friend of God.

How could anyone think otherwise?

I don't disagree with this concept, but then what's the point of christianity?

Why did Jesus order evangelism, if salvation is only up to the heart and our actions of love?
I suppose Buddha is in heaven then?
He took his own path to enlightenment - and it worked out for him?
That's good to know.
So why the necessity for evangelism?

 

[apenman]

I don't disagree with this concept, but then what's the point of christianity?

Christ died so that this concept can be true, and it is the point of Christianity.

 

[SpaceMonk]

Christ died so that this concept can be true, and it is the point of Christianity.

I should have said, "Why be christian?" or "Why persuade others to be christian?", which would have fit better with the rest of my post.

 

[The Midge]

I don't disagree with this concept, but then what's the point of christianity?

Why did Jesus order evangelism, if salvation is only up to the heart and our actions of love?
I suppose Buddha is in heaven then?
He took his own path to enlightenment - and it worked out for him?
That's good to know.
So why the necessity for evangelism?

So the majority of us who did/ do not have Jesus in a heart have half a chance.

I think the difference is that those who hear the gospel get to live redeemed lifestarting now. Eternal life is a continuation not just a new start.

 

[Gwynne]

I should have said, "Why be christian?" or "Why persuade others to be christian?", which would have fit better with the rest of my post.

Because being a Christian is about having a personal relationship with Him, and He is more than worthy of our praise.

 

[apenman]

I should have said, "Why be christian?" or "Why persuade others to be christian?", which would have fit better with the rest of my post.

I don't promote the "Christian religion", as religion isn't necessary. I do promote Christ and the "scope" of his sacrifice which many don't seem to quite understand.

 

[Foon Nerfdahl]

One could believe that without Christ's death--nobody could be saved.

Or......one could believe that God's forgiveness is available to anyone and Jesus was the primary example.......he came to show us how to live, how to die, and why to die (in the war for social justice).

 

[Dukey]

for not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,

is Paul saying people who have not heard the name Jesus can go to Heaven if they have Jesus in their hearts?

these verses dont say that people can be saved without the gospel....thats a common religious heresy....rather, the verses say that gentiles can be saved without the law (of moses)

 

[Foon Nerfdahl]

What "law" do you think these verses are talking about, Dukey?

What are "the things of the law" mentioned in this text?

How could gentiles "instinctively do the things of the law" if this text were talking about the law of Moses?

Could one "instinctively" know the entire law?

No.

Paul talks about the law that Jesus gave........"Love God and Neighbor."

People can, and do, instinctively obey the law of Jesus.

And they do go to heaven because of what is written on their heart because their actions show that they follow the way of Jesus........be they Muslim, atheist or Jew.

 

[Dukey]

What "law" do you think these verses are talking about, Dukey?

the law of moses

What are "the things of the law" mentioned in this text?

please be more specific

How could gentiles "instinctively do the things of the law" if this text were talking about the law of Moses?

because the law of moses is spiritually originated

Could one "instinctively" know the entire law?

No.

are you answering the question for me?

Paul talks about the law that Jesus gave........"Love God and Neighbor."

these two commandments are pulled from the law of moses

People can, and do, instinctively obey the law of Jesus.

jesus fulfilled the law of moses....if you read the first eight chapters of the book of romans, you will see that every reference to law is directly made concerning the law of moses....this is only basic theology

And they do go to heaven because of what is written on their heart because their actions show that they follow the way of Jesus........be they Muslim, atheist or Jew.

the verses do not exempt people from hearing the gospel....i believe that youve missed paul's message

 

[Gwynne]

because the law of moses is spiritually originated

That's debatable, to say the least. Many of the laws in the OT are related to health and sanitation, not spirituality. Others are related to inheritance and property, not spirituality.

If you love God and love your neighbor, the rest follows, regardless of the religion that you are.

 

[Foon Nerfdahl]

the verses do not exempt people from hearing the gospel

Hearing what Gospel?

That of Paul?

Or that of Jesus?

HEARING Paul's Gospel?

Or DOING the Gospel of Jesus?