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Roman church errors and inventions

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bbbbbbb

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I wonder if the non-RC Christians who descended from the early colonial Christian groups have issued an apology to the Indigenous Americans ?

The Congregational Churches (descended from the Massachusetts Bay Colony churches and now known as the United Church of Christ) has done that. The Anglican Church (which colonized New York, the Carolinas, Georgia, and Virginia) has not done so, to my knowledge. The Society of Friends (aka Quakers) which colonized Pennsylvania never was a denomination and consisted of independent meetings. Thus, it is impossible to determine if, or how many, of them did so. There were also other religious groups which came to this country but none of them, including the aforementioned denominations did so at the behest of a religious leader telling them to destroy the barbarous people of the New World. Thus, none of them really have no need to rescind or revoke any such pronouncement.
 
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Read the text of the Bull itself and you will see that the means of conversion is not intended to be either sweet or gentle. Would you like it if a Muslim described you as barbarous and in need of conversion to Islam?
 
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Philothei

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Perhaps, but they never revoked or rescinded the Word of the Lord which had come through the Papal Bulls. The Bulls just got sent to the Vatican dustbin for nosy folks to dig up later.


so if one goes to jump over the bridge I will follow him too..eh..that makes me lesser guilty of jumping *scratches head*
 
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Thekla

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The Quakers, beginning with William Penn, kept respectful relations with the Indians of this region (the "Walking Purchase" was a sad exception, though it postdated W. Penn and was not a Quaker action, though it was done iirc by a Quaker). The Moravians, and as far as I know, and the Anabaptist settlers of Pa., also maintained respectful relations.

Here's a general listing, btw:

Early American Church Denominations

NOTE: the UCC was the merger of the Congregational and Evangelical Reform (largely German) Denominations, so I guess "Reformed" would be covered under the UCC apology.
 
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Philothei

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Read the text of the Bull itself and you will see that the means of conversion is not intended to be either sweet or gentle. Would you like it if a Muslim described you as barbarous and in need of conversion to Islam?
Thus the times and language of the times...Uneducated folk was just that... Barbaric meant uneducated back then
 
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Philothei

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Let's not sweep with the big broom here Thanks Thekla
 
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Secundulus

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Read the text of the Bull itself and you will see that the means of conversion is not intended to be either sweet or gentle. Would you like it if a Muslim described you as barbarous and in need of conversion to Islam?
That is what the Quran says.
 
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SpiritualAntiseptic

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The Church did not declare dogmatically that the Earth was flat, that would also be out of the bounds of what dogma is.

You also don't seem to understand the issue around Galileo on several levels. First, it had nothing to do with the Earth being flat. Columbus had already discovered the new world by that time, putting away any doubts for even the most uneducated person.

Now, to save time and posts, I am going to address the other points you might throw out about Galileo-
Most people think it is over heliocentrism (Earth going around the Sun). This is wrong too- it was already proposed by a devout Catholic canon lawyer named Copernicus a century early and was widely accepted.
A few people know that what made Galileo different was that he proposed that orbits around the Sun were imperfect. This was problematic on a philosophical level. Although this wasn't the philosophical issue, it was Galileo's insistance on new philosophy and theology that caused him problems- particularly the idea that God could be known through math... but most people don't know that history.
 
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SpiritualAntiseptic

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Here is an interesting article:

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the arguments that you made earlier that you have chosen to ignore.

There are some people on internet forums that don't seem to have much actual knowledge about history. Within religious forums, they read polemic articles they can find on the internet and either cut and paste them or just rehash what they say. When someone is able to refute these materials, the person, with no actual knowledge of the issue and the mere ability to find stuff on the internet is usually forced to throw out red herrings by posting more articles that have nothing to do with the topic, but attack whatever group or idea they were after in the first place. Thus, the discussion isn't advanced and no real dialogue can take place.
 
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bbbbbbb

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so if one goes to jump over the bridge I will follow him too..eh..that makes me lesser guilty of jumping *scratches head*

I suppose we could start a new thread, "The Errors and Inventions of Protestantism" or even "The Errors and Inventions of Orthodoxy." However, the OP is limited to the Catholic Church, so I will not derail this thread.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Thank you for the excellent information. The only point I would disagree with is that of Rhode Island, which was found by John Brown, a Baptist, who escaped Puritan persecution in the Massachusetts Bay Colony and founded Rhode Island as a refuge not only for Baptist, but also for Quakers and Jews (the oldest Baptist Church and the oldest synagogue in America are both in Rhode Island). Thus, it is inaccurate to think that Rhode Island was Congregational.

By the way, do you know of any association between Rhode Island and the Island of Rhodes?
 
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bbbbbbb

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Wikipedia (that source of all Truth and Knowledge) apparently doesn't know that history either. I suggest you revise its biography, because as it is, it reads, in part -

Galileo Galilei (Italian pronunciation: [galiˈlɛo galiˈlɛi]; 15 February 1564[4] – 8 January 1642)[1][5] was an Italian physicist, mathematician, astronomer, and philosopher who played a major role in the Scientific Revolution. His achievements include improvements to the telescope and consequent astronomical observations, and support for Copernicanism. Galileo has been called the "father of modern observational astronomy,"[6] the "father of modern physics,"[7] the "father of science,"[7] and "the Father of Modern Science."[8] Stephen Hawking says, "Galileo, perhaps more than any other single person, was responsible for the birth of modern science."[9]

The motion of uniformly accelerated objects, taught in nearly all high school and introductory college physics courses, was studied by Galileo as the subject of kinematics. His contributions to observational astronomy include the telescopic confirmation of the phases of Venus, the discovery of the four largest satellites of Jupiter (named the Galilean moons in his honour), and the observation and analysis of sunspots. Galileo also worked in applied science and technology, improving compass design.

Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when a large majority of philosophers and astronomers still subscribed (at least outwardly) to the geocentric view that the Earth is at the centre of the universe. After 1610, when he began publicly supporting the heliocentric view, which placed the Sun at the centre of the universe, he met with bitter opposition from some philosophers and clerics, and two of the latter eventually denounced him to the Roman Inquisition early in 1615. Although he was cleared of any offence at that time, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture" in February 1616,[10] and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy," forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest. . . ."





Now, I readily confess my previous error which is a great source of embarrassment to myself. I trust that we can agree to the above Wikipedian statement.
 
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Thekla

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I had no idea -- though this site claims that possibly it was:

Rhode Island: Facts, Map and State Symbols - EnchantedLearning.com

Thanks for the correction to the list !
 
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bbbbbbb

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Please calm down, dear friend. I just posted a response regarding certain errors in my earlier post that you assicuously addressed.

If I were seriously interested in disucssing church history I would probably be posting on the Church History board at CF, as, I suppose, you might be, as well.

However, I noted that the discussion on this thread not unsurprisingly had degenerated into the typical diatribes for and against various beliefs about Mary. In light of the fact that this discussion never leads anywhere I decided to liven things up a bit for us. I hope you agree that my intrusion did accomplish its purpose.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I don't mean to distress, but have Denominational apologies been issued for forced "conversions" in Alaska (20th c.) ?

That is a good question which might be profitably pursued on another thread. On a similar note, at the end of the last century the Anglican Church of Canada was sued by various Native American groups for their forced conversions and the destruction of their culture. The court found in favor of the Native Americans and assessed an enormous fine against the Anglican Church of Canada, forcing the entire denomination into bankruptcy.
 
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