Robert Heinlein

[SquareC]

He was one of the most prolific authors of all time. He is considered one of the most influential and controversial authors of his day, and many of his ideas are still considered revolutionary. He set a standard for scientific and engineering plausibility, and helped to raise the genre's standards of literary quality. Within the framework of his science fiction stories, Heinlein repeatedly addressed certain social themes: the importance of individual liberty and self-reliancehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualism, the obligation individuals owe to their societies, the influence of organized religion on culture and government, and the tendency of society to repress nonconformisthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonconformist thought. He also speculated on the influence of space travel on human cultural practices.

He was a great influence on my own personal ideals, and I espouse many of his principles. I cried when he died. I have read and reread many of his novels and short story collections. I recommend his works to anyone who enjoys science fiction.

 

[keith99]

It is hard to go wrong with his works, save for those who disagree with his views. For some of those that he presents his views well is a major problem.

In my opinion his latest stuff was his weakest. Still better than almost anyone else, but far weaker than some of his early stuff.

He, Asimov and Clarke are considered the big 3 of Science Fiction. Save fro still having a good story many of his works may now seem bland to some readers. If you read one and start to feel that way step back and look at the copyright date. Then start reading again and think about how much of what is in the story has basically come to pass. (Then in some cases start shaking in fear as there are a couple that make some pretty dire predictions).

It turns out that while he mainly wrote Science Fiction some of his works are a bit of a cross over and some straight Fantasy. Magic Inc. is Fantasy and Glory Road is at least as much fantasy as anything else.

That Glory Road got published was one of many near things. Many editors did not like it, or more to the point they loved the first 2/3rds and not the end. The end is not the most entertaining, but I'll maintain it is what makes the work great. A slightly more sophisticated version of Sam from LOTR would agree. There are other comparisons to LOTR that could be made, but too much of that could provide spoilers.

 

[abysmul]

Fantastic author and probably my favorite for sci fi. His books like Star Beast, Rocket ship Galileo, Have Space Suit Will Travel, etc. are all great for hooking young readers into sci fi, in my humble opinion.

He wrote on of my favorite books that many love to hate: Friday

 

[keith99]

Fantastic author and probably my favorite for sci fi. His books like Star Beast, Rocket ship Galileo, Have Space Suit Will Travel, etc. are all great for hooking young readers into sci fi, in my humble opinion.

He wrote on of my favorite books that many love to hate: Friday

I was rather Meh on Friday.

I think this is the one that opens "My Father is a mad scientist and I'm his beautiful daughter". I'm positive Heinlein started a book that way and later blasted his critics when they treated the work as a straight adventure story.

If this is that story then my futile search for the first line (which I could quickly confirm at home with my library) has shown he has a lot more people to blast.

 

[keith99]

Since this is a Christian site and also because it seems many here misunderstand the scientific method (and far from all of those Christian) I thought I'd comment on some works looking with this in Mind.

Lifeline is one of his earliest works. The gimmick is that a man comes up with a way to determine when you will die. The story incorporates a lecture on the scientific method (and notes that not all scientists follow it). It has at least 2 interesting twists.

Orphans of the Sky. Sorry I can't think of a way to describe this without blowing a surprise or 2. I can however say I include it here because of a small side issue or 2, how written works can be misunderstood once the context is lost and how legends grow.

If This Goes On. The story starts at some point after the U.S. has become a theocracy. If one hates Masons it is best to avoid this work. It also uses a character setup that is common for Heinlein. The Hero is young and idealistic and has an older, more world wise and cynical friend. The older friend is in many ways more a hero.

 

[SquareC]

There are several of his novels I find worthy of particular mention. I remember Podkayne of Mars with great fondness. It is often considered as one of his juveniles, but he himself did not consider it to be one. It was the first of his books that I read.

Farnham's Freehold is another favorite. As a teen in the 80s at the height of the Cold War, this novel spoke to me of the fear that so many of us felt. Many people are not aware of the fact that he had a bomb shelter under his own home.

Time Enough for Love and The Cat Who Walks Through Walls are among my particular favorites among his later works, which I understand are considered particular statements in authorial self-reference.

One book which stands out to me as being particularly controversial, especially in conservative Christian circles, is Job: A Comedy of Justice. It was written as a satire on organized religion. Heinlein himself was an Agnostic. The Number of the Beast and To Sail Beyond the Sunset were also particularly controversial.

Actually, I can't think of one of his books I didn't enjoy reading and rereading. I reread I Will Fear No Evil again just a few months ago.

 

[keith99]

There are several of his novels I find worthy of particular mention. I remember Podkayne of Mars with great fondness. It is often considered as one of his juveniles, but he himself did not consider it to be one. It was the first of his books that I read.

Farnham's Freehold is another favorite. As a teen in the 80s at the height of the Cold War, this novel spoke to me of the fear that so many of us felt. Many people are not aware of the fact that he had a bomb shelter under his own home.

Time Enough for Love and The Cat Who Walks Through Walls are among my particular favorites among his later works, which I understand are considered particular statements in authorial self-reference.

One book which stands out to me as being particularly controversial, especially in conservative Christian circles, is Job: A Comedy of Justice. It was written as a satire on organized religion. Heinlein himself was an Agnostic. The Number of the Beast and To Sail Beyond the Sunset were also particularly controversial.

Actually, I can't think of one of his books I didn't enjoy reading and rereading. I reread I Will Fear No Evil again just a few months ago.

You might want to pick up Grumbles From the Grave. The backstory on Podkayne is interesting. It surely changed the path Robert took and perhaps history in a broader sense. At the time he had a very profitable relationship with the publisher, a long term contract to turn out juveniles. There was one book remaining on the contract and it was expected to be renewed. Robert was forced to make changes, changes he felt destroyed the message of the book. Robert finished out the contract and refused to renew as long as that editor was still employed. Save for that Heinlein might have continued to turn out first rate juvenile books for years to decades.

Re The number of the Beast. It seems what was a secret for years is finally out:

Heinlein Society

The 'Black Hat' is an anagram of Robert Heinlein, in some form. I first found that out at a L5 society meeting in Los Angeles where I briefly met Heinlein and attended a talk he gave.

I very firmly recall that I know Robert blasted his critics regarding the book that started He's a Mad Scientist and I'm his Beautiful Daughter. Now I know it was The Number of The Beast and I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps I heard it from his lips, not from a written source.

Regarding Farnham's freehold. Some have used it to claim Heinlein is Racist. To do that one has to ignore The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Starship Troopers, Tunnel in the Sky and most likely several other works.

I Think I'll end with a trick question of sorts. Was Rod Walker (Hero of Tunnel in the Sky) Black or White?

 

[HereIStand]

I've not read him. Which is a good novel to start with of his? The Moon is a Harsh Mistress looks good.

 

[keith99]

I've not read him. Which is a good novel to start with of his? The Moon is a Harsh Mistress looks good.

Good choice. Especially since we are online, e.g. using computers and computers will play a role in the story.

Are you a total prig about marriage and things sexual? Or put differently would it ruin a story for you if good people in a story where marriage and sex do not conform to current Christian norms? If so this one is out as are many other stories of Heinlein, or for that matter Science Fiction.

Thinking about it Heinlein while a 'Hard' Science Fiction writer in the sense that the science in his stories works and except for breakthroughs fit the knowledge of the time (or at least the possibilities) does much more with what if this was different in society.

So if this is out tell me more about yourself and I'll see what I can think of.

EDIT: I just realized my comments in this note could be over cautious. Just to be clear, the most explicit sex I recall is that 2 characters end up in bed together on their wedding night. Just the 2 of them, but the marriage involves more than just 2 people. Oh and I can not think on anything at all gratuitous in the work. Everything fits. I mention that because I don't really care about thgins being explicit, but if sex or violence is just thrown it does hurt a story in my eyes. Nothing just thrown in here.

 

[HereIStand]

Good choice. Especially since we are online, e.g. using computers and computers will play a role in the story.

Are you a total prig about marriage and things sexual? Or put differently would it ruin a story for you if good people in a story where marriage and sex do not conform to current Christian norms? If so this one is out as are many other stories of Heinlein, or for that matter Science Fiction.

Thinking about it Heinlein while a 'Hard' Science Fiction writer in the sense that the science in his stories works and except for breakthroughs fit the knowledge of the time (or at least the possibilities) does much more with what if this was different in society.

So if this is out tell me more about yourself and I'll see what I can think of.

EDIT: I just realized my comments in this note could be over cautious. Just to be clear, the most explicit sex I recall is that 2 characters end up in bed together on their wedding night. Just the 2 of them, but the marriage involves more than just 2 people. Oh and I can not think on anything at all gratuitous in the work. Everything fits. I mention that because I don't really care about thgins being explicit, but if sex or violence is just thrown it does hurt a story in my eyes. Nothing just thrown in here.

I would say that if the work itself has overall redeeming artistic value, then it's permissible to allow for some material that might be objectionable otherwise if it were just thrown in for its own sake. I try look at some of the language and material in Tom Wolfe's novels in that way.

 

[keith99]

I would say that if the work itself has overall redeeming artistic value, then it's permissible to allow for some material that might be objectionable otherwise if it were just thrown in for its own sake. I try look at some of the language and material in Tom Wolfe's novels in that way.

I think that means you will be fine with this novel.

Honestly with language occasionally what some insist on offends me. As I see it Sailors should swear like sailors. Villains generally should not be polite, Hannibal Lector being an exception, and all the more frightening because of it.

I'm interested in Hearing how you like the story and also if you notice a couple of things.

 

[keith99]

Robert also wrote some strange stuff. Because of other conversations one came to mind. The short story Them.

Quite different.

 

[SquareC]

Heinlein's beliefs regarding sex and marriage are unconventional and are usually the most controversial subjects in many of his novels. He advocated plural marriages in a variety of forms, free sexuality and casual nudity. In his personal life, he was a nudist and had an open marriage with his second wife. I suppose it could be referred to as a case of "practice what you preach," but I tend to think it was the other way around, a case of strongly advocating his personal beliefs.

As far as his being a "hard" science fiction writer, it is one of the many reasons I love his books. He was a well educated man and the fact that his science does work and his projected breakthroughs are realistic meets a "must have" for me in science fiction. I will drop a book midway through if the science is unrealistic. I have a fairly thorough knowledge of practical science and I cannot stand a book that contains bad science! It's one of my biggest pet peeves.

And yes, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is an good place to start. It's on my must-read list for those new to Heinlein. I hope you enjoy it!

 

[keith99]

I think it is worth pointing out that sex in his stories is not graphic, prurient or gratuitous.

In fact the erotic scene that comes to mind is one where nothing happens. (For those who have read Heinlein I'm thinking of the three bares).

In one way what Heinlein does with sex is pretty much what he does with everything else. He looks at how thing might work out if something changed. In the case of sex if our attitudes were different.

And his hard science side does not preclude some pretty wild speculations. His gate transport ideas and the jump idea are not and may never be possible. BUT once postulated they follow rules. Heck even when he deals with magic in Magic Inc. it follows rules.

A warning. A lot of the science is outdated. Specifically much of his works were written when the rest of the solar system being populated or at least habitable was a reasonable hope. That is now a dashed hope.

I can see how that would ruin a work for some as for a work written now it would be a serious issue for me. But I take older works in the context they were written.

 

[SquareC]

I think it is worth pointing out that sex in his stories is not graphic, prurient or gratuitous.

In fact the erotic scene that comes to mind is one where nothing happens. (For those who have read Heinlein I'm thinking of the three bares).

In one way what Heinlein does with sex is pretty much what he does with everything else. He looks at how thing might work out if something changed. In the case of sex if our attitudes were different.

And his hard science side does not preclude some pretty wild speculations. His gate transport ideas and the jump idea are not and may never be possible. BUT once postulated they follow rules. Heck even when he deals with magic in Magic Inc. it follows rules.

A warning. A lot of the science is outdated. Specifically much of his works were written when the rest of the solar system being populated or at least habitable was a reasonable hope. That is now a dashed hope.

I can see how that would ruin a work for some as for a work written now it would be a serious issue for me. But I take older works in the context they were written.

I have to agree with all of the above 100%. Another thing to consider, especially with regards to the potential population and/or habitation of other planets in our own solar system, is the enduring theme of "the World as Myth," which is most thoroughly demonstrated in The Number of the Beast. It can be used to explain the differences between our own universe (code name Armstrong) and, for example, the universe of Stranger in a Strange Land. Actually, it can be used to cover virtually any difference, lol.

I think in any older novel, it is absolutely vital to consider the state of the art at the time of publication. An author can only work within the science they understand to be true. What fascinates me (especially in some of the older publications) is the truth of so many predictions these authors made about the future which is now our present. What was previously science fiction is now a nonfiction version of true science fact. It can be astounding to see and realize just how true to life these predictions have become our own reality. It really encourages me to continue to read science fiction, particularly hard science fiction. Just so long as the science is as correct as humanly possible, I enjoy reading them. Of course, scifi competes (and sometimes loses the battle) with my love for fantasy novels. I also enjoy those books that combine the two. Those are quite fun!

 

[keith99]

I have to agree with all of the above 100%. Another thing to consider, especially with regards to the potential population and/or habitation of other planets in our own solar system, is the enduring theme of "the World as Myth," which is most thoroughly demonstrated in The Number of the Beast. It can be used to explain the differences between our own universe (code name Armstrong) and, for example, the universe of Stranger in a Strange Land. Actually, it can be used to cover virtually any difference, lol.

I think in any older novel, it is absolutely vital to consider the state of the art at the time of publication. An author can only work within the science they understand to be true. What fascinates me (especially in some of the older publications) is the truth of so many predictions these authors made about the future which is now our present. What was previously science fiction is now a nonfiction version of true science fact. It can be astounding to see and realize just how true to life these predictions have become our own reality. It really encourages me to continue to read science fiction, particularly hard science fiction. Just so long as the science is as correct as humanly possible, I enjoy reading them. Of course, scifi competes (and sometimes loses the battle) with my love for fantasy novels. I also enjoy those books that combine the two. Those are quite fun!

It is also important to consider what our society would accept at the time of publication. I've seen fools criticize Heinlein for failure to have enough LGBT characters or similar things. Fact of the matter is he had far more than anyone else I can think of. He pushed the limits on just about everything.

BTW thinking about it he does have a trans character, which I'm pretty sure his critics in this area ignored.

 

[SquareC]

It is also important to consider what our society would accept at the time of publication. I've seen fools criticize Heinlein for failure to have enough LGBT characters or similar things. Fact of the matter is he had far more than anyone else I can think of. He pushed the limits on just about everything.

BTW thinking about it he does have a trans character, which I'm pretty sure his critics in this area ignored.

And all it took was for him to die to get his sex change! I think that in some ways, he pushed the limits far past what society would accept back then. For that matter, his advocation of plural marriage in a variety of forms and complete sexual freedom without consequences are still beyond what many in society currently accept.

 

[keith99]

And all it took was for him to die to get his sex change! I think that in some ways, he pushed the limits far past what society would accept back then. For that matter, his advocation of plural marriage in a variety of forms and complete sexual freedom without consequences are still beyond what many in society currently accept.[/QUOTE

What story are you thinking of? I was thinking of All You Zombies.

 

[SquareC]

And all it took was for him to die to get his sex change! I think that in some ways, he pushed the limits far past what society would accept back then. For that matter, his advocation of plural marriage in a variety of forms and complete sexual freedom without consequences are still beyond what many in society currently accept.

What story are you thinking of? I was thinking of All You Zombies.

I was referring to the infamous Andrew Jackson "Libby" Long, the lightning calculator and mathematical genius. He died and was placed in a capsule orbiting a sun by Lazarus Long. He was later picked up and taken to Tertius and rejuvenated. It turned out that he had a genetically anomaly, namely an XXY chromesome. He was asked to choose between being male or female, and chose female. She was a complete female, to the point of becoming a mother later, rather than being surgically altered from male to female. I can't bring the name of the book to mind, my memory is extremely unreliable.

 

[keith99]

I was referring to the infamous Andrew Jackson "Libby" Long, the lightning calculator and mathematical genius. He died and was placed in a capsule orbiting a sun by Lazarus Long. He was later picked up and taken to Tertius and rejuvenated. It turned out that he had a genetically anomaly, namely an XXY chromesome. He was asked to choose between being male or female, and chose female. She was a complete female, to the point of becoming a mother later, rather than being surgically altered from male to female. I can't bring the name of the book to mind, my memory is extremely unreliable.

One of the later novels.