Right Wing Extremism

[TheGrungeDiva]

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania:

Police: Stolen guns were to be used to overthrow the government

Here's a question, though....

What if we DID live in a corrupt government? Obviously, our current government is not overly corrupt. There is certainly corruption in all levels of government, up to the top, I'm sure, and I say that as a supporter of Mr. Obama, but I'd say even Bush, whom I didn't support, was not corrupt to the point of needing overthrowing.

But what if we lived in, say, Nazi Germany, or a similarly corrupt situation, a regime that obviously needed overthrowing? Would you not recognize that perhaps violence was appropriate then? Maybe you wouldn't agree to carry out the violence, but wouldn't you be less frightened by people "stealing guns to overthrow the government?"

The thing is, these people honestly believe that Obama is as bad as Hitler. It's not their actions that should scare you, but the thoughts that lead to those actions. They want to overthrow the government because they believe that he is that bad. And, if we are really as tolerant as we claim to be, as we liberal Christians want to be, can we really tell people they're not allowed to think certain things? The American Way has always been to outlaw actions but leave thoughts free.

It's a sticky wicket.

My husband is really borderline on this. He is one of those who is ready to defend his country from the government if necessary. And he hated Bush as much as Obama, so it has nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative, it's all about power. These people tend not to trust ANYONE in power.

What is the difference between a patriot and a terrorist? The only difference is which side wins when the dust settles.

 

[TheManeki]

Good question. I'd suggest the RW extremists (ie, the people committing the violent acts in this thread) are living for all practical intents in a parallel universe, where children are members of the Obama Youth, death panels are killing grandmas left and right, guns are outlawed, and the media is nothing more than a propaganda arm of the government -- except for a few brave souls broadcasting the truth from pirate transmitters.

These beliefs are easily shown to be false. No debates about the nature of reality required. Just take a good look around. However, the RW extremists live in a bubble that protects them from reality, thanks to cable TV, radio, and the internet delivering news that is tailored to them.

The question is, if you want to live in a fantasy world,why pick a scary one? Maybe part of it is that horror stories naturally increase in popularity during hard times. Maybe they like these stories because it makes them feel like persecuted heroes instead of being at the mercy of faceless economic forces. And maybe it's because outrage produces a high, a good feeling in sad times.

ETA: You brought up the borderlines, Diva -- the people who haven't bought into the fantasy enough to do things (and become RW extremists), but still think those things. As long as they're not trying to kill people or destroy property, personally I'm okay with that, because I have the hope that they'll eventually come around instead of going off the deep end. Denying reality takes a lot of effort, and is a lot harder than accepting reality -- even when accepting reality means having to admit you were wrong. Heck, a lot of people here in WWMC, including myself, started off living in bubbles of denial in regards to certain topics.

 

[TheManeki]

An additional thought. Conservative Christians who live in this fantasy world may do so because it resonates theologically. Conservative Christians have become more dualistic regarding issues, almost to a Manichean extent. Absolutely, they tend to embrace the idea of an apocalyptic end times, especially one that is right around the corner.

 

[Im_A]

FoxNews will/already have another airing of news.

 

[plmarquette]

what about millions go to hell...because they missed the "Jesus .pdf"

 

[Im_A]

what about millions go to hell...because they missed the "Jesus .pdf"

Then tell God to stop allowing viruses getting into the .pdf file.

 

[Im_A]

Here's a question, though....

What if we DID live in a corrupt government? Obviously, our current government is not overly corrupt. There is certainly corruption in all levels of government, up to the top, I'm sure, and I say that as a supporter of Mr. Obama, but I'd say even Bush, whom I didn't support, was not corrupt to the point of needing overthrowing.

But what if we lived in, say, Nazi Germany, or a similarly corrupt situation, a regime that obviously needed overthrowing? Would you not recognize that perhaps violence was appropriate then? Maybe you wouldn't agree to carry out the violence, but wouldn't you be less frightened by people "stealing guns to overthrow the government?"

The thing is, these people honestly believe that Obama is as bad as Hitler. It's not their actions that should scare you, but the thoughts that lead to those actions. They want to overthrow the government because they believe that he is that bad. And, if we are really as tolerant as we claim to be, as we liberal Christians want to be, can we really tell people they're not allowed to think certain things? The American Way has always been to outlaw actions but leave thoughts free.

It's a sticky wicket.

My husband is really borderline on this. He is one of those who is ready to defend his country from the government if necessary. And he hated Bush as much as Obama, so it has nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative, it's all about power. These people tend not to trust ANYONE in power.

What is the difference between a patriot and a terrorist? The only difference is which side wins when the dust settles.

The actions are more terrifying because its the totality of the thoughts. No one, can cure that type of radicalism that the likes of your husband and the man arrested in cumberland county, pa. The only difference is...your husband is a law abiding citizen and that is why he is at least a respectable person. The passion is still the same between say your husband and the murderer. That passion against Obama. Your husband chooses to act in a moral manner with his passion...thus actions being more important than the thoughts and ideas.

 

[Im_A]

Who Are The Anarchists Behind the Rome Embassy Bombs? - Yahoo! News

Silly radical conservatives...

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

The actions are more terrifying because its the totality of the thoughts. No one, can cure that type of radicalism that the likes of your husband and the man arrested in cumberland county, pa. The only difference is...your husband is a law abiding citizen and that is why he is at least a respectable person. The passion is still the same between say your husband and the murderer. That passion against Obama. Your husband chooses to act in a moral manner with his passion...thus actions being more important than the thoughts and ideas.

Obama is not my enemy, but he is my opponent... just like in a chess game. Nothing personal, and I don't dislike the man at all. We're just on opposite sides politically. He seems to genuinely believe that European-style democratic socialism is the way to go, whereas I'm a strict constitutionalist, laissez-faire capitalist and libertarian. I respect him, and I could be friends with him, but I couldn't vote for him.

 

[Im_A]

Obama is not my enemy, but he is my opponent... just like in a chess game. Nothing personal, and I don't dislike the man at all. We're just on opposite sides politically. He seems to genuinely believe that European-style democratic socialism is the way to go, whereas I'm a strict constitutionalist, laissez-faire capitalist and libertarian. I respect him, and I could be friends with him, but I couldn't vote for him.

No offense my friend but your point is?

I very well know the difference between opponent and enemy.

Is all that crazy to state that we have things in common with terrorists? They are human beings as well. Just those of us who have our views who choose to act morally or within the law with our opposition is the ONLY thing that separates us from the tyranny that we see with right-wing extremism or any wing of politics.

So again, no offense...your point is?

 

[grainofsalt]

Unfortunately, right wing extremism is very real, but relatively rare. What is much more common is right wing radicalism (left wing radicalism). This is what is more implied when you see people protesting with signs that say "impeach" or "stop socialism now, act today". Some of these people are very well meaning, but some have not truly educated themselves on reasoning and are blindly following a radical political system because 1. life situations deteriorating 2. believing truths exagerated and twisted into inflated bent truths or "lies" 3. Believing false rumors spread by radical sources 4. fear of change 5. lack of factual understanding, lack of knowledge concerning necessity.

For example, tea partiers could be considered very conservative. If a tea partier has some of his views even moderately changed by a radical source (such as the original source suggests that the military funding should be cut in non essential areas as a needed change for economic sucess gets errornously/intentionally changed to the military spending must be cut by 30 percent because if it is not our economy will collapse .....), that person has can easily turn from mainstream conservative to radical conservative/right wing.

Unfortunately, the line between radical and extremist has become a bit thinner too. Radicals that are displeased by conservative actions can turn to extremism because they preceive that no one in government is capable, therefore a revelution is needed. So generally to jump from radical to extremism, a total loss of faith in conservatives in office is generally needed to be reached. This is not the case for anti abortion extremists that already harbor an extremist mentality towards a specific issue for instance.

The biggest issue with right wing radicalism is that it creates an enviroment of contempt and hatred for other Americans, and for those working in government.

As a moderate republican that is pro government and is a government contractor, I wanted to provide my insight since I'm kind of in the middle of the road and can see both sides. I hope this explaination helps.

 

[SSSSMDS-RT]

Right wing extremism is just plain scary. 'Nuff said.

I agree!

 

[plmarquette]

so is left wing rhetoric....

I am glad Bush was in white house on 9-11 and not Gore or Obamma....
who would have made a big speech and did nothing...

 

[Supernaut]

so is left wing rhetoric....

I am glad Bush was in white house on 9-11 and not Gore or Obamma....
who would have made a big speech and did nothing...

While I agree with your opinion (especially with Gore), we really do not know full well what would have happened.

 

[lux et lex]

so is left wing rhetoric....

I am glad Bush was in white house on 9-11 and not Gore or Obamma....
who would have made a big speech and did nothing...

Or continue reading a children's book. Whichever.

 

[Im_A]

so is left wing rhetoric....

I am glad Bush was in white house on 9-11 and not Gore or Obamma....
who would have made a big speech and did nothing...

I'm not saying that Gore or Obama would do any better. Obama's record in my opinion right now is not good. Killing suspected American terrorists instead of giving the due process that is granted to every criminal and law abiding citizen in the constitution is not the act of a leader that I can get behind any more. Gore? Points theorizing with someone who never had the presidency is flat out meaningless.

Nevertheless...what justice has been done for 9/11 from what Bush has done? From what Obama has let continue? What justice could be obtained besides wasted money to wars that we don't need, that we can't afford and lives being lost in vain?

Zilch.

So why do you think that Bush was a good choice for the situation that we were in?

 

[Supernaut]

Or continue reading a children's book. Whichever.

It had big words in it!!!!

 

[Xen_Antares]

so is left wing rhetoric....

I am glad Bush was in white house on 9-11 and not Gore or Obamma....
who would have made a big speech and did nothing...

If Gore, McCain, Obama, or just about anybody else was in the White House, there may have never been a 9-11. A folder being set on their desk with the warning that Al Queda was planning something big may have just caught one of their eyes, and necessary steps to prevent it from taking place may have been initiated.

It also a myth a Democrat would have done nothing. No matter who was in office would have invaded Afghanistan, but not Iraq, as Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. This is perpetuated by using examples of Bill Clinton only sending cruise missiles after the attack on the US embassies in 1998 and the USS Cole in 2000. What conservatives refuse to remember (because it paints them as guilty) is that when Clinton sent those cruise missiles after the attack on the US embassies the GOP was screaming for his blood and claiming he was using the US Armed Forces to distract the nation from his impeachment proceedings. I remember when this happened very distinctly, I had just joined the military and completed basic training and was at my first training assignment when news broke.

 

[Im_A]

It also a myth a Democrat would have done nothing. No matter who was in office would have invaded Afghanistan, but not Iraq, as Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. This is perpetuated by using examples of Bill Clinton only sending cruise missiles after the attack on the US embassies in 1998 and the USS Cole in 2000. What conservatives refuse to remember (because it paints them as guilty) is that when Clinton sent those cruise missiles after the attack on the US embassies the GOP was screaming for his blood and claiming he was using the US Armed Forces to distract the nation from his impeachment proceedings. I remember when this happened very distinctly, I had just joined the military and completed basic training and was at my first training assignment when news broke.

They also forget what Obama has been doing behind the scenes. They forget JFK.

There's so much conservatives forget in relation to war and Democrats.

 

[WannaWitness]

I usually don't venture out into this section of the forums, but since there are a few who see me as some sort of renegade for showing some balance, I might as well throw in my two-cents....

In my personal experience, I have found that extremists on both ends (not just with politics, but with other issues, as well) have those of us who don't think exactly like them tuned out, no matter how much we feel we may make sense. They write us off as no better than "evil heathen" rather than brothers and sisters in Christ who merely have a different perspective on things. As a true moderate (as in neither Democrat nor Republican), I appreciate what grainofsalt said in post #51. He demonstrates good sense and thought. I only wish that more people could look at it that way. I'm not saying we should set out to try to change people's mind on how they honestly feel; I'm merely suggesting to hear out and have respect for another person's point of view, even while disagreeing. The world would be all the better for it.