Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 2, 2009

Cross Reference said:
Unclear to them, yes. To us, they shouldn't be.

That is true. I look at the parables as an OC judean/israelite would look at them......Some of the riddles in the OT were pretty difficult to understand I would think

Isaiah 28:11 "And with stammering/deriding lip and in-tongue, another He shall speak to the people, this".

Ezekiel 17:2 "Son of adam, propound thou a riddle and speak thou a proverb/04912 mashal unto house of Israel"

Matthew 13:11 The yet answering He said to them "that to ye it hath been given knowledge of the Mysteries of the Kingdom of the heavens.
To those yet, not it hath been given",

Cross Reference · Aug 2, 2009

Tyndale said:
Cross Reference, please try not to be so suspicious about people motives. There are many things each and every one of us disagree on, but surely it's fine to present an idea as long as the bible is used to back up that idea. The bible is what holds us together, its Gods word on Earth. If we see different interpretations on certain passages, that's God's plan, but at least we spread his word to others.

It only holds us together if it is rightly interpreted. It is never God's will/plan that we see things differently but that we fit together as Joint and marrow.. It is so vitally important that, while agreeing with our heart we must also agree with our mind. When both are in "unison", then we have fellowship not only within ourselves but with each other. Aside from eschatology, few questions need ever go unanswered if one's foundation isn't all over the proverbial map.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 2, 2009

Hey, lookie here!! That Woman and City in Revelation 17 and 18 are also dressed in Purple

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 16:19 A-Man, yet any, was rich and in-slipped purple/porfuran <4209> and fine-linen/busson <1040> making-merry down to a-day, shiningly [Matt 22:11]

Revelation 17:4 And the Woman was having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) purple/porfura <4209> and scarlet/kokkinw <2847> and having been gilded to gold and stone, precious, and pearls,

Reve 18:12 cargo/replete of gold and of silver and of stone, precious and of *pearl and of *linen/bussou <1040> and of purple/porfuraV <4209> and of silk and of scarlet and every wood citron and every instrument of ivory and every instrument out of wood most-precious and of copper and of iron and of marble,

Reve 18:16 *and saying "woe! woe! the City the great the one having been about-cast linen/bussinon <1039> and purple/porfuroun <4210> and scarlet and having been golded to gold and stone, precious and *pearl

Tyndale · Aug 2, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

I've just started reading that. The author was a Futurist and now has become a Preterist? That's one hek of a change. But he still hadn't considered being a historicist? Historicism is the more rational of the two.

The history of the Futurist and Preterist movements are interesting. They were part of the counter-reformation against Historicism.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 2, 2009

Tyndale said:
I've just started reading that. The author was a Futurist and now has become a Preterist? That's one hek of a change. But he still hadn't considered being a historicist? Historicism is the more rational of the two.

The history of the Futurist and Preterist movements are interesting. They were part of the counter-reformation against Historicism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicism_(Christian_eschatology)

Historicism is a school of interpretation which treats the eschatological prophecies of Daniel and Revelation as finding literal earthly fulfillment through the history of the church age and especially in relation to the struggle between the true church and apostasy. Historicism stands in contrast to Preterism, Futurism and Idealism.

Tyndale · Aug 2, 2009

Historicism is covenantle It's reformist.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 2, 2009

Tyndale said:
Historicism is covenantle It's reformist.

Don't know much about "historicism" or "dispensationalism" for that matter, but I do view this parable and Revelation as all "Covenantle"......a change of Priesthoods.

I do not know what label I would use for my view . I just prefer CHRISTIAN myself...........

I do delve into the Hebrew/Greek a lot though and 1 thing I find interesting is the greek word used for "fine-linen" in Luke 16:19.
It is eerily similar to the greek word for "abyss", and generally the prefix "a" before a word denotes a negative.

Strong's Number G12 matches the Greek ἄβυσσος (abyssos), which occurs 9 times in 9 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

12. abussos ab'-us-sos from 1 (as a negative particle) and a variation of 1037; depthless, i.e. (specially) (infernal) "abyss":--deep, (bottomless) pit.

Luke 16:19 A certain Man was rich and in-slipped purple and fine-linen/busson <1040> making-merry down to a-day, shiningly

Reve 11:7 And whenever they should be finishing the testimony of them, the beast, the one ascending out of the Abyss/abussou <12>, shall be doing with them battle, and shall be conquering them, and he shall be killing them,

Reve 17:8 The wild-beast which you perceived was and not is and is being about to be ascending out of the Abyss/abussou <12>, and into destruction is going away.

Tyndale · Aug 2, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Don't know much about "historicism" or "dispensationalism" for that matter, but I do view this parable and Revelation as all "Covenantle"......a change of Priesthoods.

Maybe you would be interested in 'historicism' as its 'Covenantle' in nature.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 2, 2009

Tyndale said:
Maybe you would be interested in 'historicism' as its 'Covenantle' in nature.

Thanks, but no thanks. Now onward with the Parable ehehe.....

Tyndale · Aug 2, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Thanks, but no thanks. Now onward with the Parable ehehe.....

I didn't think you were that short-sighted LLoJ. At least you could have tried the historicism menu as well as your usual menu of futurism and Preterism......at least we tried

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 2, 2009

Tyndale said:
I didn't think you were that short-sighted LLoJ. At least you could have tried the historicism menu as well as your usual menu of futurism and Preterism......at least we tried

Can we get back to the topic of this thread please as I do not want to get into different kinds of Eschatological views here? Thanks

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 22, 2009

I can humbly say that whether this Parable is a true story or not, it is a story that has a lot of similarities to the OT.

I have always looked at it as a "Covenantle" parable, especially in relation to the Hebrew Israelites/Jews to which this story was told. Thoughts?

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 22, 2009

Shameless bump

squint · Sep 22, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
I can humbly say that whether this Parable is a true story or not, it is a story that has a lot of similarities to the OT.

I have always looked at it as a "Covenantle" parable, especially in relation to the Hebrew Israelites/Jews to which this story was told. Thoughts?

The covenantal understanding of this parable put forth by J. P. Eby is probably one of the POOREST dissections of that scripture set that I have EVER read. It's so full of holes I cannot count them all.

And it is USED to heap JUDGMENT upon the people of Israel, and in that way it is ANTI-Semitic at it's CORE. I am quite surprise you would practice that quite frankly. But once these types of ANTI-RACE views dig into the heart they are hard to DITCH.

I'd ask you what in the world yer thinkin' but whatever...

s

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 22, 2009

squint said:
The covenantal understanding of this parable put forth by J. P. Eby is probably one of the POOREST dissections of that scripture set that I have EVER read. It's so full of holes I cannot count them all.

And it is USED to heap JUDGMENT upon the people of Israel, and in that way it is ANTI-Semitic at it's CORE. I am quite surprise you would practice that quite frankly. But once these types of ANTI-RACE views dig into the heart they are hard to DITCH.

I'd ask you what in the world yer thinkin' but whatever...

s

Ummm no. Just the corrupt muderous Judean rulers/priesthood
Would you also say this Messianic's view of it is also "anti-Judean"

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

*snip*
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man has been the foundation for many of the erroneous beliefs about "hell" within traditional Christianity. Some have viewed it not as a parable, but as a true story Yeshua told to give details about the punishment of sinners in hell................

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yourselves 'a father we are having, the Abraham'. For I am saying unto ye, that is able the God out of the stones, these, to raise-up children to the Abraham.

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me that I am being pained in the Flame this."

squint · Sep 22, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Ummm no. Just the corrupt muderous Judean rulers/priesthood

Uh, pardon me, but where do you even SEE the 'rich man' associated to be JEWISH or even A JUDEAN RULER???

Hello! It could have been ANY RICH MAN on the face of the WHOLE planet.

Would you also say this Messianic's view of it is also "anti-Judean"

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

IF their understanding of this particular parable revolves around LINKING the 'rich man' to the JEWS as a RACE or a RELIGION, yes. And as such I sincerely HOPE our own 'legal system' comes to recognize that such things are a violation of basic CIVIL RIGHTS in this country and are FULLY PROSECUTED...

Nonsense in the name of God...at the expense of ANY certain RACIAL GROUP or CREED should NOT be tolerated whatsoever, particularly by supposed 'believers.'

Even the unbelievers know BETTER THAN THAT!

s

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 22, 2009

squint said:
Uh, pardon me, but where do you even SEE the 'rich man' associated to be JEWISH or even A JUDEAN RULER???

Hello! It could have been ANY RICH MAN on the face of the WHOLE planet.

IF their understanding of this particular parable revolves around LINKING the 'rich man' to the JEWS as a RACE or a RELIGION, yes. And as such I sincerely HOPE our own 'legal system' comes to recognize that such things are a violation of basic CIVIL RIGHTS in this country and are FULLY PROSECUTED...

Nonsense in the name of God...at the expense of ANY certain RACIAL GROUP or CREED should NOT be tolerated whatsoever, particularly by supposed 'believers.'

Even the unbelievers know BETTER THAN THAT!

s

Whatever squint

squint · Sep 22, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Whatever squint

How would you like JEWS to run you out of your HOME as a GENTILE DOG in the name of their government sanctified 'religion?'

That's why even CIVIL GOVERNMENT has more common sense than some 'believers.'

I have JEWISH FRIENDS...and I respect their 'rights' to their positions, even if I disagree with same. And ya know what? NONE of 'dem dar jews' condemn our fellow mankind to be burned alive forever or die an eternal death in the name of JUDAISM. They LAUGH at christian believers for this IDIOCY because that didn't even EXIST as an Old Testament position, which O.T. 'some' christian believers don't 'throw out.'

In this way they are FAR FAR better people than most I run into in christiandom. They actually DO have a way to love their neighbors that does not result in the ETERNAL DEATH or ETERNAL TORTURE of same in the name of their God.

whatever...

A person might FEAR to become a slave in their own mind?

s

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 22, 2009

squint said:
How would you like JEWS to run you out of your HOME as a GENTILE DOG in the name of their government sanctified 'religion?'

That's why even CIVIL GOVERNMENT has more common sense than some 'believers.'

I have JEWISH FRIENDS...and I respect their 'rights' to their positions, even if I disagree with same. And ya know what? NONE of 'dem dar jews' condemn our fellow mankind to be burned alive forever or die an eternal death in the name of JUDAISM. They LAUGH at christian believers for this IDIOCY because that didn't even EXIST as an Old Testament position, which O.T. 'some' christian believers don't 'throw out.'

In this way they are FAR FAR better people than most I run into in christiandom. They actually DO have a way to love their neighbors that does not result in the ETERNAL DEATH or ETERNAL TORTURE of same in the name of their God.

whatever...

A person might FEAR to become a slave in their own mind?

s

Have you ever tried to explain this Covenantle Parable to them?

http://www.kosherjudaism.org/phpBB3/

squint · Sep 22, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Have you ever tried to explain this Covenantle Parable to them?

WHY would any N.T. account have any relevance to their understandings? I have to meet them on their own ground when I witness GODS LOVE to them. And most of them already have that much figured out for themselves...no different than WE DO for ourselves.

Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

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Cross Reference

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