Rhyming hymns and watered down theology

[MoNiCa4316]

for those who love the Church's traditions and traditional artwork/chants

Beauty of Catholic Tradition - YouTube

 

[ebia]

that is true.. the question is if hymns should be 'accessible' or not. If yes, how accessible, and to whom? If the average Catholic is not well catechized, wouldn't the hymns only keep them uncatechized? Should hymns be accessible to us or help us to reach deeper concepts? It doesn't even have to be very theological, but for example encouraging people to be thankful for the Eucharist (as in Christ being present, not just being thankful for a meal shared with others), or to think about Christ's suffering, etc.

Pedagogically one wants to be scaffolding. It's no use if the language or ideas are beyond people, but it should stretch them. To do that in a corporate situation you need a range, but if the bulk are uncatechised then the theology and phrasing in at least some of the hymns does need to be within their grasp.

then I think it depends if the ways are helpful or not. I dont know if you find the Lord of the Dance helpful, - it doesn't seem to communicate to me. I dont know. Maybe it's different for different people.

Of course it is. One of the things about figurative approaches is that different people will make different connections at different times in their lives. All the more reason to be as lavish as scripture is in the range of figure we use, not stick to the handful of tried and trusted warhorses of our particular tradition.

 

[ebia]

Thinking about the "blood of the lamb" one, a baptist congregation is probably so used to the phrase that it's largely stock jargon - the goriness and half the biblical resonunces are probably lost. Lets face it, it should be a shocking metaphor and we should be prepared to be shocked by the gospel afresh from time to time.

 

[AMDG]

I dont know if you find the Lord of the Dance helpful, - it doesn't seem to communicate to me. I dont know. Maybe it's different for different people.

It's quite catchy, but it doesn't speak to me either--and I can't see the Gospel in it at all.

 

[FullyMT]

I like Lord of the Dance.

One metaphor and explanation of the the Trinity is perichoresis, a word with multiple meanings, but one of which is dance. So, the Trinity is like a dance, where the movements of each is done in such a way that they are one. We are asked to join in the dance (ie the life and work of the Trinity).

 

[AMDG]

I said that the Lord of the Dance is catchy. (I'm sure that the children love it.) I just think that the words are forced and made to pretend that it's following Christian thought.

Barley Bree - The Lord of the Dance Hymn - YouTube

 

[MKJ]

I can't stand Lord of the Dance, though I like the tune it is set to.

If you take a look at the fellow who wrote it though, and what he was saying, it is well outside of orthodox theology. Some of it is just nonsensical IMO.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Pedagogically one wants to be scaffolding. It's no use if the language or ideas are beyond people, but it should stretch them. To do that in a corporate situation you need a range, but if the bulk are uncatechised then the theology and phrasing in at least some of the hymns does need to be within their grasp.

Maybe the new translation could help with this

 

[AMDG]

I can't stand Lord of the Dance, though I like the tune it is set to.

If you take a look at the fellow who wrote it though, and what he was saying, it is well outside of orthodox theology. Some of it is just nonsensical IMO.

Oh, I see what you mean.

Lex orandi, lex credendi: The case against Lord of the Dance

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Is it just me or is this hymn heretical???

"I myself am the bread of life"

"I myself am the bread of life
you and I are the bread of life
taken and blessed, broken and shared by Christ
that the world may live."

Only Christ is the bread of life. We can be Christ to others, sure, but when the priest consecrates the Host it is Jesus. And only Christ is the bread of life who was "broken for us so that the world may live". He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..certainly not me.

I have a problem with the hymns that talk about the Eucharist merely as a reminder to give to others: sure it's a good idea to give to others and God wants us to do this but - the primary purpose of the Eucharist is to receive Jesus and become one with Him and receive grace... then He can transform us so we can give His love to others. But if we don't even realize that He is there, and treat Him as a means to an end, we are probably limiting ourselves of many graces and it must be sad for Jesus when people receive Him and don't even realize He is there it's a commandment to love our neighbour, and we can't claim to love God if we don't love our neighbour, but the first commandment is to love God: if we don't love Him, we won't truly love others either. He needs to come first. I can't always see that in modern hymns on the Eucharist.

I recall that when I was looking at the school religion curriculum, the part about the Eucharist also talks a lot about helping others, - but I think it's important for kids to know that the Eucharist is Jesus. No wonder there are Catholics who think the Eucharist is a symbol

As one article said:
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]"Contemporary hymns lead us to believe that Christ becomes bread, rather than the reverse; that the bread is only a symbol of Christ, or, worse, of something else entirely; that it is our body and our blood; that this is a meal only; or that this is a call to social activism. The words sacrifice, Real Presence, and even Body and Blood of Christ are strangely absent." "The sacrifice, they write, is rather only a banquet in which we are fed, which in turns prompts us to feed the hungry, a call to social action"[/FONT]
http://www.adoremus.org/1102MassMusic.html

the article mentions some other hymns that really don't communicate Catholic teaching on the Eucharist, but are more Protestant:

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Welcome the symbols[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Feasting and telling;[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Signs of thanksgiving,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Signs of indwelling[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial](James Hansen: "Bless the Feast". Text © 1988 Oregon Catholic Press [OCP] Publications).[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]We bring the bread and wine to share a meal[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Sign of grace and mercy[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]The presence of the Lord[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial](Marty Haugen: "We Remember". Text © 1980 GIA Publications).[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Bread, blessed and broken for us all[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Symbol of your love, from the grain so tall[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial](Michael Lynch: "Bread, Blessed and Broken". Text © 1978, 1979 Raven Music; published in OCP Publications).[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Then there are hymns that simply use the Eucharist as a reminder to give to others, as said before...[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Here is a living sign:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]That one man's dying and rising[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Becomes our bread and wine[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial](Jack Miffleton: "Give Thanks and Remember". Text and music © 1975 WLP).[/FONT]

"[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Yet there are texts that come to us from Protestant churches that are most appropriate. For example:

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Lord, sup with us in love divine
Your Body and Your Blood
That living bread, that heavenly wine
Be our immortal food.
(James Montgomery 1771-1854: "Shepherd of Souls")[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]And another, most appropriate hymn:[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]
Draw near and take the Body of the Lord
And drink the Holy Blood for you outpoured
(John Mason Neale 1818-1866: "Coena Domino", 1851)
[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]This is actually a translation and adaptation of an earlier Latin hymn, and the sentiment is unabashedly Catholic."[/FONT]
​

[/FONT]

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Here is an excerpt from an interesting article that relates to the thread...

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial][SIZE=+1]Ritus Narcissus:
Why Do We Sing Ourselves and Celebrate Ourselves?[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]by Father Paul Scalia[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Imagine the following scene: You arrive at Mass on Sunday, eager to thank God for His goodness to you. You slide into the pew early, kneel in prayer, and direct your praise and worship to your Lord and God. You stand as the song leader introduces the opening hymn: "Table of Plenty". Suddenly your praise comes to a screeching halt, not because of your own prayers, but because of what you are singing. In fact you are no longer praising God at all, but singing to the others:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Come to the feast of heaven and earth!
Come to the table of plenty!
God will provide for all that we need,
here at the table of plenty.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Now it gets worse: you begin to sing His lines:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]O, come and sit at my table
where saints and sinners are friends.
I wait to welcome the lost and lonely
to share the cup of my love.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]And so at the very beginning of Mass, your conversation with God is derailed and transformed into a participation in the congregation's introspection.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]To appreciate the damage done by such hymns, we must first call to mind two essential aspects of the Mass: presence and dialogue. First of all, what distinguishes the Mass from all other forms of worship is the re-presentation of Christ's sacrifice. The Mass does not merely recall or reenact Christ's redemptive act but in fact makes present the mystery of faith, the passion, death and resurrection of Christ (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1366).[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Second, the presence of Christ in the Eucharist and indeed throughout the Mass makes possible a real dialogue between God and man; it creates an active conversation. The remembrance of someone does not lead to dialogue with that person; only to reminiscing. The presence of Christ in the Mass, however, inspires us to speak to Him as only the beloved can speak to the Lover. Thus the Mass is a dialogue between Christ and the Church, between God and man, in which God speaks His lines and we speak ours. He speaks to us through the readings and (we hope) the homily, while we respond to Him through the prayers of the priest, our personal prayers, and the hymns.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Accordingly, active participation at Mass requires the faithful to acknowledge the presence of Christ and enter the dialogue, taking the words of the Bride as their own. They embody the Bride, and their Mass parts -- the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei ­ express her desire for union with the Bridegroom. Other texts used at Mass should reflect and deepen this sentiment. The dialogue reaches its culmination at the Consecration, when the Bridegroom speaks His definitive words of love and thus becomes really present to His Bride in the Eucharist.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Given the lyrics of much contemporary liturgical music, however, we must ask what has become of this dialogue and our ability to enter it. Many hymns have us sing only about ourselves and to ourselves, even going so far as to usurp God's part. Such words fail to convey the true meaning of the Mass as a dialogue between Christ and the Church. The offending lyrics come in two varieties: in the first, we sing to one another and about one another, but do not include God in the conversation; and in the second, we sing God's parts.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]The Cult of Conceit: Why Are We Singing to Each Other?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]A conversation demands that we include the other in the discussion. If someone speaks to you about himself, about you, about himself and you, but never really with you, you would call that person conceited. So have we become in our conversation with God: He humbles Himself to dwell among us under the form of bread and wine, while we ignore Him and sing about ourselves and to ourselves.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Of course, many traditional hymns also address the other believers rather than God. But a close look at such hymns (for example, "Now thank we all our God", "Praise, my soul, the King of heaven", or "Ye watchers and ye holy ones") reveals a crucial difference: the traditional hymns address others only to invite them to worship God, while most contemporary songs invite us to glorify ourselves.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]"Bread of Life" by Rory Cooney, provides a splendid example of this self-centered conversation. The theme of the song lends itself to the Communion rite. But unfortunately, the words distort the meaning of Communion and the dialogue that should be taking place:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]I myself am the bread of life
you and I are the bread of life
taken and blessed, broken and shared
by Christ
that the world may live.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Aside from the fact that this song radically distorts Our Lord 's "Bread of Life" discourse, it also leaves God out of the conversation: we talk to ourselves. As the communicants come forward to receive the living God, they are singing about themselves. "Sing a New Church", a triumphalist paean to diversity by Delores Dufner, OSB, also fosters the Cult of Us:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Let us bring the gifts that differ
And, in splendid, varied ways,
Sing a new Church into being,
One in faith and love and praise[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]So the chorus goes, and the verses similarly proclaim us to ourselves. Passing over the tremendous ecclesiological problems in the text, we should question what the song communicates to the congregation: songs about us constitute worship of the Almighty. We have replaced Him as the focus of worship.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]A favorite Communion song in some parishes is "This Bread That We Share" by Dominic MacAller:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]This bread that we share is the body of Christ,
this cup of blessing his blood.
We who come to this table bring all our wounds to be healed.
When we love one another as Christ has loved us,
we become God's daughters and sons.
We become for each other the bread, the cup,
the presence of Christ revealed.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Again the words, which clumsily try to convey the beautiful theology of the Mystical Body, foster in the congregation a focus on itself at the very moment that it should be speaking to and about Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]One of the worst offenders in this cult of conceit is a song called "Anthem" by Tom Conry:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]We are called, we are chosen.
We are Christ for one another.
We are promise to tomorrow,
while we are for him today.
We are sign, we are wonder,
we are sower, we are seed.
We are harvest, we are hunger.
We are question, we are creed.[/FONT]
​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Count them: 13 separate uses of "I" or "we" in these lines. Nor do the verses help: they do not sing to Christ, but only about Him and to ... us! Although the verses do emphasize our inadequacy before God and dependence on Him, nevertheless, the dialogue with the Almighty has been shut down, and we sing to one another about one another and only secondarily about Him, the object of all our affections.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Arial]Songs such as these give us a wonderfully ridiculous image of a bride so enamoured with herself that she cannot see the Bridegroom awaiting her at the altar.[/FONT]

Ritus Narcissus
​