RFK is Right about this...

[RoBo1988]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/07/02/rfk_jr_biden_is_operating_under_the_delusion_that_the_us_can_dominate_the_world_without_an_industrial_base.html

A lot of US manufacturing, is assembly of imported components. If there's a war going on, that may be difficult, if not impossible.

We're following in the footsteps of the Israelites 1 Samuel 13:19-22

 

[public hermit]

RFK is "lacking in the qualities of reasonableness we need for trustworthy authorities" (this has been amended, but the idea is his conspiratorial positions take away from his credibility). If you want to make an argument, don't start there. Your appeal to scripture is spurious, too.
Great thread, cowboy.

 

[AlexB23]

RFK is a moron. If you want to make an argument, don't start there. Your appeal to scripture is spurious, too.
Great thread, cowboy.

Agreed 100%. For myself, if I want to support Western companies or not support China, I just buy second hand stuff. Also, my first and new air purifier is mostly made in South Korea, while my table is made in Denmark (2nd hand). TV is sadly made in China, same with a lot of things in my place, but I bought a pizza pan made in Austria from CO2-neutral production. Used it 3x already, and I love it. My fridge thermometer is made in Germany. Goes down to minus 60 degrees Fahrenheit for some reason, and up to 124 degrees Fahrenheit for no reason. China is no good, so since the 2020s, I have tried to avoid buying Chinese.

 

[IceJad]

RFK is a moron. If you want to make an argument, don't start there. Your appeal to scripture is spurious, too.
Great thread, cowboy.

He may not have articulated properly but he does have a point. America's industrial strength is not what it use to be during WW2. You have most of your core technologies being manufactured outside of your borders. On top of relying on resources from suppliers that themselves rely on more unsure sources (by this I mean unfriendly/hostile nations). In the event of a real war where would America get their supplies from? Unfriendly nations and companies control most of the low level productions required by American high level productions to work.

America might design microprocessors but who manufactures them? And who supplies the manufacturers with materials? And who controls the mines for the raw materials? Even if you solve the raw material and manufacturing problems today, how fast can you ramp up productions to even match your rivals? Given if you can read the future and know that a war is inevitable in 3-5 years, can you change the industrial output to match already standing manufacturing nations? Look at your ammunition production today, you can't even keep a steady pace to resupply Ukraine without running dangerously low yourself. While places like North Korea and China even Iran are pumping them out like the US prints money.

 

[AlexB23]

He may not have articulated properly but he does have a point. America's industrial strength is not what it use to be during WW2. You have most of your core technologies being manufactured outside of your borders. On top of relying on resources from suppliers that themselves rely on more unsure sources (by this I mean unfriendly/hostile nations). In the event of a real war where would America get their supplies from? Unfriendly nations and companies control most of the low level productions required by American high level productions to work.

America might design microprocessors but who manufactures them? And who supplies the manufacturers with materials? And who controls the mines for the raw materials? Even if you solve the raw material and manufacturing problems today, how fast can you ramp up productions to even match your rivals? Given if you can read the future and know that a war is evitable in 3-5 years, can you change the industrial output to match already standing manufacturing nations? Look at your ammunition production today, you can't even keep a steady pace to resupply Ukraine without running dangerously low yourself. While places like North Korea and China even Iran are pumping them out like the US prints money.

I do agree, that RFK has a point. However, for myself, I do not rely on politicians to where I buy my stuff from. Instead, diligent research on where items come from is important.

This is some of my inventory. I am hoping that before the end times, or before 2030, I can switch to all Western (North America, Europe), Japanese or Korean made products instead of Chinese stuff.

Item	Origin
1970s Coffee Table	Denmark, 2nd hand at local shop in my state
Winix Air Purifier	South Korea, new, Amazon
Riess Pizza Pan	Austria, new, purchased from Riess website, brought home by parents when they went to visit family in Holland.
Cutlery	From parents, some IKEA and KitchenAid tools from China
Fridge Thermometer	Germany, purchased online from Walmart or something
LG Washing Machine	USA
LG 43UN700T-B monitor (43 inches)	Korean company, made in China
Samsung A54 phone	India
Smart lights	Chinese, cos most smart lights are not made in the US
TV Stand	Chinese
Shelving	Chinese
Desk	Chinese
Chairs, bed	From parents
Shirts	Second hand

 

[RoBo1988]

"When the debate is lost, insults become the losers tool"

 

[public hermit]

Yeah, I guess.

He may not have articulated properly but he does have a point. America's industrial strength is not what it use to be during WW2. You have most of your core technologies being manufactured outside of your borders. On top of relying on resources from suppliers that themselves rely on more unsure sources (by this I mean unfriendly/hostile nations). In the event of a real war where would America get their supplies from? Unfriendly nations and companies control most of the low level productions required by American high level productions to work.

America might design microprocessors but who manufactures them? And who supplies the manufacturers with materials? And who controls the mines for the raw materials? Even if you solve the raw material and manufacturing problems today, how fast can you ramp up productions to even match your rivals? Given if you can read the future and know that a war is inevitable in 3-5 years, can you change the industrial output to match already standing manufacturing nations? Look at your ammunition production today, you can't even keep a steady pace to resupply Ukraine without running dangerously low yourself. While places like North Korea and China even Iran are pumping them out like the US prints money.

That might make a point, if it were someone else. But there's still dog BBQ and sexual assault. Is that cool with you? Try again.

 

[AlexB23]

"When the debate is lost, insults become the losers tool"

Agreed. In fact, here are two another ones, straight out of the OT and the NT.

Proverbs 11:12 (NKJV): "He who is devoid of wisdom despises his neighbor, But a man of understanding holds his peace."
Luke 6:37 (NKJV): "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

 

[IceJad]

I do agree, that RFK has a point. However, for myself, I do not rely on politicians to where I buy my stuff from. Instead, diligent research on where items come from is important.

This is some of my inventory. I am hoping that before the end times, or before 2030, I can switch to all Western (North America, Europe), Japanese or Korean made products instead of Chinese stuff.

Item	Origin
1970s Coffee Table	Denmark, 2nd hand at local shop in my state
Winix Air Purifier	South Korea, new, Amazon
Riess Pizza Pan	Austria, new, purchased from Riess website, brought home by parents when they went to visit family in Holland.
Cutlery	From parents, some IKEA and KitchenAid tools from China
Fridge Thermometer	Germany, purchased online from Walmart or something
LG Washing Machine	USA
LG 43UN700T-B monitor (43 inches)	Korean company, made in China
Samsung A54 phone	India
Smart lights	Chinese, cos most smart lights are not made in the US
TV Stand	Chinese
Shelving	Chinese
Desk	Chinese
Chairs, bed	From parents
Shirts	Second hand

It is admirable that you make a conscious choice to wean yourself from products manufactured in unfriendly nations. However many of the components are still sourced from said unfriendly nations. And your enemies know it. When Japan had a dispute with China, China reduced their exports of rare earths to Japan to stifle the Japanese manufacturing. It is a form of hybrid warfare.

Now magnify that to all form of industries you can see the danger RFK is talking about. While you can't totally decouple from the rest of the world it is still a prudent idea to increase the manufacturing in your own country. Japan is already doing the same, where the government is encouraging their companies to relocate back to their homeland with grants.

This kind of policy change requires time to implement, if you don't start today you might miss a crucial window of opportunity.

Globalization works when the whole world is at peace, but we can hardly say that the world now is anywhere near stable.

 

[IceJad]

Yeah, I guess.

That might make a point, if it were someone else. But there's still dog BBQ and sexual assault. Is that cool with you? Try again.

What? Dog BBQ and sexual assault? Are we even talking about the same thing here? I can't try again if I can't understand your point. Nothing in the article even remotely hinted at any of that.

 

[AlexB23]

It is admirable that you make a conscious choice to wean yourself from products manufactured in unfriendly nations. However many of the components are still sourced from said unfriendly nations. And your enemies know it. When Japan had a dispute with China, China reduced their exports of rare earths to Japan to stifle the Japanese manufacturing. It is a form of hybrid warfare.

Now magnify that to all form of industries you can see the danger RFK is talking about. While you can't totally decouple from the rest of the world it is still a prudent idea to increase the manufacturing in your own country. Japan is already doing the same, where the government is encouraging their companies to relocate back to their homeland with grants.

This kind of policy change requires time to implement, if you don't start today you might miss a crucial window of opportunity.

Globalization works when the whole world is at peace, but we can hardly say that the world now is anywhere near stable.

Yeah, that is true. The components inside my air purifier are partially made in China, from what I have heard. The battery inside my phone is probably made in China. We need a law that says that 95-100% of components must be made in the country of origin in order to be labeled "made in USA" or "Made in Japan". If not, items should be labeled with a ratio of where the items come from.

Globalization is faltering in 2024, cos the world has gotten really violent in 2024 and is tense. Looks like I will have to buy almost totally second hand except for electronics when other items fail.

 

[AlexB23]

Yeah, I guess.

That might make a point, if it were someone else. But there's still dog BBQ and sexual assault. Is that cool with you? Try again.

I do not like SA or RFK either, but can you quote a source?

 

[public hermit]

What? Dog BBQ and sexual assault? Are we even talking about the same thing here? I can't try again if I can't understand your point. Nothing in the article even remotely hinted at any of that.

It's in the public domain. Is it true? Who cares? The better questions is: Is this the best we can do? His opinion is general and not trusted as authoritative except by those who choose to believe so. The larger question concerns the fitness of this country's citizens.

 

[SimplyMe]

I guess my issue is that it isn't anything new that hasn't been pointed out previously, including Pres. Biden. It is worth noting that the Inflation Reduction Act, particularly the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program, specifically has requirements for components and even source materials to be from the US or a free-trade partner (which excludes China). Additionally, there are specific military programs to procure US (or, again, friendly nation) procurement of rare earth metals.

Personally, this is an area I've been concerned about since the 1980's, when much of our manufacturing was moved overseas. RFK may have mentioned it, but it is an issue that is already being worked on, so it isn't anything new or even unique to him (again, it is something the Biden administration has been working on).

 

[public hermit]

I guess my issue is that it isn't anything new

Right. This thread is about persona and not context. If someone wants to make this particular argument, then don't muddy the waters with RFK.

 

[IceJad]

It's in the public domain. Is it true? Who cares? The better questions is: Is this the best we can do? His opinion is general and not trusted as authoritative except by those who choose to believe so. The larger question concerns the fitness of this country's citizens.

Ok this is where I disengage. I'm talking about American industrial capability vs the current reality. You're for some reason attacking RFK for his personal flaws or crimes which I don't know nor need to know. And I'm not going to google that. It's not my point of argument. If you dislike RFK, it is fine but don't give me incomprehensible haikus to respond to my points.

 

[AlexB23]

I guess my issue is that it isn't anything new that hasn't been pointed out previously, including Pres. Biden. It is worth noting that the Inflation Reduction Act, particularly the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program, specifically has requirements for components and even source materials to be from the US or a free-trade partner (which excludes China). Additionally, there are specific military programs to procure US (or, again, friendly nation) procurement of rare earth metals.

Personally, this is an area I've been concerned about since the 1980's, when much of our manufacturing was moved overseas. RFK may have mentioned it, but it is an issue that is already being worked on, so it isn't anything new or even unique to him (again, it is something the Biden administration has been working on).

We can blame Clinton for selling our souls to China in 2000 for solidifying the made in China stuff. But yes, I am glad that moves are being made to back down from China, but it has been three years and not much has changed. We need people to vote with their wallets, and not buy Chinese. Politicians will not solve this problem. Voting with our wallets will.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-the-world-opened-the-gates-of-china-1532701482

 

[IceJad]

Yeah, that is true. The components inside my air purifier are partially made in China, from what I have heard. The battery inside my phone is probably made in China. We need a law that says that 95-100% of components must be made in the country of origin in order to be labeled "made in USA" or "Made in Japan". If not, items should be labeled with a ratio of where the items come from.

Globalization is faltering in 2024, cos the world has gotten really violent in 2024 and is tense. Looks like I will have to buy almost totally second hand except for electronics when other items fail.

That would be good to know but a nightmare to implement. You will need a global agreement on it.

 

[SimplyMe]

We can blame Clinton for selling our souls to China in 2000 for solidifying the made in China stuff. But yes, I am glad that moves are being made to back down from China, but it has been three years and not much has changed. We need people to vote with their wallets, and not buy Chinese. Politicians will not solve this problem. Voting with our wallets will.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/when-the-world-opened-the-gates-of-china-1532701482

I'd put it under Reagan -- the 80's when "Greed is good" was the mantra (thanks Michael Douglas and the movie Wall Street). There was a major change in corporations back in the 80s, partially due to the number of corporate raiders, where short term profits were valued over long term prospects. All sorts of companies were moving factories to Asia to take advantage of much lower labor costs.

My recollection of Clinton's "selling our souls" is that I didn't like it, at all, but that it made little difference as they already had most of our jobs.

 

[public hermit]

Ok this is where I disengage. I'm talking about American industrial capability vs the current reality. You're for some reason attacking RFK for his personal flaws or crimes which I don't know nor need to know. And I'm not going to google that. It's not my point of argument. If you dislike RFK, it is fine but don't give me incomprehensible haikus to respond to my points.

No, I do understand what you are saying and don't necessarily disagree, but RFK sucks as the spokesperson for the argument. I'm surprised you aren't alarmed by him. Does he strike you as reasonable? He does not seem reasonable to me. I just don't thinks he's somehow special for making an argument that is well known.

Here you go: Bring manufacturing back here.
See, I said it and didn't enlist RFK as support.