Revelations

[mary05]

Is the story of the Devil in Revelations. If so please tell me where, It's a question that has been asked of me and I think so but not sure where.
Thanks for all help.
Mary

 

[BT]

Well... sort of.

read chapters 19, 20 for the story of what will happen to the devil... but as to his original fall etc. that's not in revelation that would be in Isaiah 14:12-15

 

[Bingle]

It could be slightly alluded to in Ezekiel 28 as well.

 

[Matthan]

Are you sure about that, BT and Bingle? After all, aren't the two individuals you referenced "prophets"? Don't they fortell what will come to be? Or, are they historians? Do they talk of history? Personally, I do not think so.

The Hebrews had lots of historians, but there were few prophets of God. And, prophets of God always announced His message to His people. So, how can you say they told of Satan's fall unless you say they fortold of Satah's fall.

Sure makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Matthan <J>< (Festina Lente)

 

[BT]

Are you sure about that, BT and Bingle? After all, aren't the two individuals you referenced "prophets"? Don't they fortell what will come to be? Or, are they historians? Do they talk of history? Personally, I do not think so.

The Hebrews had lots of historians, but there were few prophets of God. And, prophets of God always announced His message to His people. So, how can you say they told of Satan's fall unless you say they fortold of Satah's fall.

Sure makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Matthan <J>< (Festina Lente)

No not really. You have to understand the prophets and their writings is all. In the two offices of the OT (priest & prophet) there were two directions of information.

The priest - from man to God
The prophet - from God to man

Though fortelling of future events was unique to the office of prophet it was not the only substance of the office. The prophets also pronounced judgement, were given to visions, performed sacrifices etc. The prophet was not limited to telling the future (as directed by God) though that was a unique aspect of their individual ministries (and also remember that not all prophets told the future... or were given prophecies of the future... there were whole schools of prophets but there are relatively few that wrote and prophesied in the Bible).
For example Moses was a prophet, he pronounced future events (i.e. I will bring to you the promised land....) however through him God also gave the Law (current event at that time). Furthermore God gave to Moses information that it would otherwise have been impossible to know (past events) i.e. "In the beginning God..."

So no it doesn't make you wonder...

 

[BT]

I'll cut and paste portions of a paper I wrote sometime last year on Satan.. for your edification..

it's nothing fancy, I seem to recall that it was just a quicky and I didn't even have to do footnotes... but it gives a general over view on at least one aspect of Satan.

 

[BT]

The Existence of Satan


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Satan, the enemy of God and of man, has employed a place in the Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation. Where Satan was once feared, he has become somewhat of a comic-book character to many. In some circles of contemporary Christianity there is even disbelief in the true existence of this Biblical figure. Society would simply reject the existence of the devil as a myth. The rationalists claim that the devil is only a metaphor, the pictured personification of the idea of evil. To determine the existence of Satan we must turn to the pages of scripture and see if he is an idea, or if he is a person. Does Satan possess the attributes of personality? Does the Bible teach of a literal being, or is the Biblical language mere metaphor and hyperbole?

 

[BT]

Chapter One

Satan in the Old Testament
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It is from the Old Testament that we derive the history of Satan. The Bible never seeks to prove the existence of Satan, as it never seeks to prove the existence of God. Satan’s existence, as that of God, is understood to be fact and not fiction. From the Old Testament we learn that Satan is a created being. Ezekiel 28:15 shows us that not only was Satan a created being, he was also a perfectly created being, "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, …".

That Satan is an angelic being, can be seen through the narrative of Job. In the first chapter of Job we are shown a day in which "… the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them". (Job 1:6) Though some would consider Satan as having been at one time an angelic being, I find it more correct to state that Satan is an angelic being. He was not changed from an angel into another form of existence, rather he is a fallen angel. The cause of the iniquity of Satan is not known. We do however have a glimpse of the event that could be noted as the fall of Satan. The prophet Isaiah describes the judgement of God on the king of Babylon (an earthly, human king). Isaiah then comes to a section where he begins to use language that seems too strong to refer to any merely human king:

How art thou fallen from heaven,

O Lucifer, son of the morning!

How art thou cut down to the ground,

which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart,

I will ascend into heaven,

I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:

I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,

in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;

I will be like the Most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell,

to the sides of the pit. (Isaiah 14:12-15)
​

In this language of ascending to heaven and setting his throne on high and saying, "I will make myself like the Most High" there is a strong suggestion of the rebellion of an angelic creature of great power and dignity. Wayne Grudem, in his Systematic Theology, explains the shift from human prophecy to prophetic vision as follows. "It would not be uncommon for Hebrew prophetic speech to pass from descriptions of human events to descriptions of heavenly events that are parallel to them and that the earthly events picture in a limited way." We can then learn that the fall of Satan from his position in heaven came as a result of pride. As a result of his original status and authority, Satan still has great power and dignity. His existence is further shown in the Old Testament as that of a being with a distinct personality. Satan is first introduced as the tempter in the Garden of Eden. Later, in the book of Job, we find Satan having a dialogue with God Himself. In this dialogue we see the activity of Satan, (Job 1:8) "And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." It becomes clear that Satan exists in a finite manner. He travels "to and fro", and communicates through dialogue. This is assuredly an indication that his existence is not metaphorical but rather personal.

From the beginning of time Satan has been the tempter and enemy of man. In the Garden of Eden Satan confronted Eve and appealed to her pride; "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:4,5) In this conversation between the angelic being and the first human woman we can see that Satan has personality. The temptation did not come from within Eve, it came from an outside source. If Satan did not exist as a being with personality the flaw would have been in the creation, Eve herself. We know that this is not the case and that the result of the fall was a curse of enmity between man and the serpent. Prophetically this curse showed the coming of Christ the Son of man, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." (Genesis 3:15).

 

[BT]

Chapter Two

Jesus’ teaching and experience with Satan
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During the time of his earthly ministry Jesus had unique experiences with Satan. It was during a time of fasting and prayer in the wilderness that Satan tried relentlessly to bring the Son of God to do evil. We are able to learn many things about the existence of Satan from Jesus. In the Gospel according to John Jesus confronted the disbelief of the Jews and showed his knowledge of Satan from the beginning of time, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not." (John 8:44,45) This passage of scripture shows us that Jesus knew Satan to exist "from the beginning" and that in his existence Satan was a liar and the father of lies.

Jesus’ teaching on the existence of Satan can also be clearly seen in the titles which He gave him. In John 14:30 Jesus gives Satan the title "the prince of this world". The title of prince can only be given of a person not an intangible or a metaphor. Satan plainly possesses all the attributes of personality: the names given to him show that fact, and the actions which are attributed to him will prove it even more abundantly.

Some have said that Satan is a mythological figure which was developed through Jewish superstition. On this point Augustus Strong in his Systematic Theology states. "… the constant representation of angels as personal beings in Scripture cannot be explained as a personification of abstract good and evil, in accommodation to Jewish superstitions, without wresting many narrative passages from their obvious sense; implying on the part of Christ either dissimulation or ignorance as to an important point of doctrine; and surrendering belief in the inspiration of the Old Testament from which these Jewish views of angelic beings were derived. This same remark applies to the view which regards Satan as but a collective term for all evil beings, human or superhuman. The Scripture representations of the progressive rage of the great adversary, join with the testimony of Christ just mentioned, to forbid any other conclusion than this, that there is a personal being of great power, who carries on organized opposition to the divine government." Jesus Christ as our ultimate teacher believed and taught the existence of Satan. Moreover Jesus warned that Satan was not only the enemy of God, but also of man.

 

[BT]

Conclusion
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Satan is mentioned in the Bible as many times as are all the other angels together, from the first to the last page of the history of man and of the universe. He plainly possesses all the attributes of personality. From the Old Testament we saw that Satan was formerly "the day-star, son of the morning" (Isaiah 42:12), and that he fell from having determined to take the place of the Lord, or seeking to elevate himself above God. The New Testament informs us that Satan was a "murderer from the beginning" and is the father of lies. It has ever been the devil’s characteristic to originate sin and tempt others to sin. From the teachings of Jesus we learned that the Lord himself considered Satan to exist as a literal being and not some intangible force. Through the Scriptures we see Satan as acting in accordance of his own will. He has moved about the earth, tempted man and worked to thwart God at every turn. While the subject of the existence of Satan may be troubling we are reminded that he is not an all-powerful being. Satan is a created being with the same limitations as the other angels. Contrary to some theological principles (or lack of understanding) Satan is not omnipotent, omniscient, or omnipresent. Satan is an angelic being, and we learn throughout the Bible that his days are numbered. While this great enemy may be seeking to disrupt, tempt and destroy, his fate is already sealed. Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

 

[BT]

Bibliography Page
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1. Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology Volumes 7 & 8. Dallas Seminary Press, 1978
2. Charles Hodge. Systematic Theology Volume I. Hendrickson Publishers, third edition 2003
3. Rene Pache. The Future Life. Moody Press Chicago, 1962
4. Augustus H. Strong. Systematic Theology Three Volumes in One. The Judson Press, twenty-fifth printing 1967
5. Wayne Grudem. Systematic Theology. Zondervan Publishing House Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1994

 

[Matthan]

BT, your work is impressive. However, where do you find a reference to Satan in Genesis? Could you please supply Chapter and verse. (KJV only, please)

Oh, and keep in mind that, as Christians, we should never assume that anything not specifically mentioned in Scripture is really or actually there, none the less. If we did make such assumptions, then we could never challenge anyone else for making similar assumptions concerning other things or events also not specifically mentioned in Scripture (such as the immaculate conception of Mary, praying to saints, etc.)

Matthan <J>< (Festina Lente)

 

[BT]

BT, your work is impressive. However, where do you find a reference to Satan in Genesis? Could you please supply Chapter and verse. (KJV only, please)

Oh, and keep in mind that, as Christians, we should never assume that anything not specifically mentioned in Scripture is really or actually there, none the less. If we did make such assumptions, then we could never challenge anyone else for making similar assumptions concerning other things or events also not specifically mentioned in Scripture (such as the immaculate conception of Mary, praying to saints, etc.)

Matthan <J>< (Festina Lente)

Amen. Ok just give me a minute. I'll give you the overview while I look up the details.

The serpent is Satan. You have to look at the Hebrew to see it clearly though. Though you can also see it in the prophecy that God gives Eve and Eve's response (meaning what she named her firstborn... apparently thinking that he was the redeemer)... The name for serpent is something like "shining one" let me look it up in my notes

 

[benlym]

I cant wait till Jesus the prince of peace and truth comes back like a man of war and makes Satans Last number drop!!

 

[benlym]

cant wait for armageddon..
and ofcourse rapture..