Revelation

[MaxR1996]

This is an open thread to discuss the last book of the bible: Revelation.

I believe Genesis, The Gospel of Jesus, and Revelation, are the most important parts of the bible.

Revelation is one of the most controversial and least discussed parts of the bible.

It explains the end of world happening before Jesus Christ returns and brings Heaven down to the world.

I believe Mystery Babylon = United States. The Beast = United Nations.

Obama = Anti-Christ. Pope Francis = False Prophet.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-Chapter-17/
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-Chapter-18/

Am I under the impression that the United States will be attacked soon, by a foreign country, in the form of Nuclear Attack.

Revelation 17:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Revelation 18:

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation is one of the most controversial and least discussed parts of the bible.

Actually "most discussed book of the bible" would be more accurate. "least understood" might be accurate as well.

Obama = Anti-Christ. Pope Francis = False Prophet.

Except the Antichrist is called the false prophet in Rev so it's just one person, not two. I personally believe Satan will be the antichrist/false prophet anyways. It's not gonna be either of the two you listed.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

The Revelation is a polemic and commentary. Apocalypticism is a form of genre wherein the author generally writes vaticianum ex eventum, (like Daniel, Peter, Paul, etc but unlike John), apocalypse means "unveiling" so the writing is subversive unveiling of what appears to be happening and describes what is really undercutting everything. So Revelation is a subversive apologia in which John of Patmos is telling specific churches to stop dealing with the Roman imperial system, he is also offering a consolation for the destruction of Jerusalem, telling the churches that while it appears like Rome triumphed over Jerusalem they didn't because the Church is the New Jerusalem. Evidently Christians living before the destruction of Jerusalem most likely still participated within the temple cult.

 

[Job8]

Revelation is exactly what it says it is -- an unveiling. It is the unveiling of events between first and second comings of Christ, but it goes far beyond that, and into eternity.

Revelation focuses primarily on the judgments which precede the second coming of Christ, but there are also parenthetical scenes in Heaven. Revelation is fundamentally a chronological set of prophecies (and the majority are about events in the future), but as John was told, he was to write about things he had seen, the things which were there already, as well as those which would occur thereafter. Unless one ties the Olivet Discourse to Revelation, the significance of many events is missed.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Revelation is exactly what it says it is -- an unveiling. It is the unveiling of events between first and second comings of Christ, but it goes far beyond that, and into eternity.

Revelation focuses primarily on the judgments which precede the second coming of Christ, but there are also parenthetical scenes in Heaven. Revelation is fundamentally a chronological set of prophecies (and the majority are about events in the future), but as John was told, he was to write about things he had seen, the things which were there already, as well as those which would occur thereafter. Unless one ties the Olivet Discourse to Revelation, the significance of many events is missed.

More like an unveiling of what was really happening during the Jewish-Roman war of 70CE. ;-)

 

[Job8]

More like an unveiling of what was really happening during the Jewish-Roman war of 70CE. ;-)

That would really be a stretch. But to each his own.

 

[cs100]

Maybe Obama is the Antichrist and Trump is Jesus' 2nd coming???? Hahahaha....

 

[Greg J.]

It is a continual fight for one studying the Bible to try to understand just what it says--without making it say something. The need to figure out details of Revelation might be something most Christians go through, and I don't condemn that need. But one of the rules of Bible interpretation is to first understand what it meant to the people to whom it was written. None of the books started, To the church of God at Greg J.'s house, together with all the saints throughout the United States. Instead we try to know God better through principles revealed (among other things), and that requires we understand the meaning the author was trying to convey to his readers--which requires we understand his background, the cultures he knew, and the situation the intended readers were in as he understood it. All that on top of just trying to accurately understand the meaning of the original words (Greek in this case) provides more than enough to study to achieve the basic meaning of the text.

It is valuable to remind ourselves that the Bible was given to reveal God to us. I would look at Revelation with that in mind and look for spiritual truths given in spiritual words. (1 Corinthians 2:13 and surrounding text) Sometimes we have to just trust that the opinion of people who have been studying a book in the Bible for 40 years "are better than mine" until I am more spiritually mature.

 

[Radrook]

The funny thing is that all these interpretations are said to be done with the help of holy spirit. That would make the holy spirit a very confusing force.

 

[Radrook]

Maybe Obama is the Antichrist and Trump is Jesus' 2nd coming???? Hahahaha....

Calling the first black USA president the anti-Christ might be viewed as a racist reaction by some African Americans.

 

[Greg J.]

... I would look at Revelation with that in mind and look for spiritual truths given in spiritual words. (1 Corinthians 2:13 and surrounding text) Sometimes we have to just trust that the opinion of people who have been studying a book in the Bible for 40 years "are better than mine" until I am more spiritually mature.

*spiritual truths given in spiritual words--which are from the meaning of the text (without adding to the text).

Regarding who's interpretation to trust most--if you don't know who to trust (until you connect with Jesus himself) look to mainstream Christians who have been suffering in the mission field for Jesus while clinging to him for several decades. God connects more truly and deeply with people who have been broken such that they know experientially that they need God and they can't do anything without his help. God lives more powerfully through people like this (including revealing Truths to them). Obeying God in everything is the more generalized path to getting the answers you want (as opposed to, say, reading theology books).

I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15:5, 1984 NIV)

 

[ewq1938]

Calling the first black USA president the anti-Christ might be viewed as a racist reaction by some African Americans.

Only if they think he is the AC because of his race which I highly doubt is the reason. It's more likely his actions that were the reason. But, he isn't the AC so neither that nor the racism card are applicable here.

 

[throughfierytrial]

More like an unveiling of what was really happening during the Jewish-Roman war of 70CE. ;-)

Christ returns only once.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Christ returns only once.

This is true for Catholics as well however we still consider every Eucharist to be the Parousia.

 

[throughfierytrial]

As a Lutheran I couldn't agree. Catholics and Lutherans see Communion differently. There are several passages we can examine, but I'll point first to the I Corinthians 11:17-34 verses. I'll let you look at those passages, but examine closely what is being said. The church members considered the Lord's Supper a simple matter of eating and drinking it seems...even over doing it. Paul warns that they are under God's judgement this way and to the point that some are weak, sick and some have even died as a result of this judgement. Paul commands them to wake up to the fact that the Lord's body and the Lord's blood are in the cup and the loaf. To repeat, the body and blood of the Lord are IN the cup and the loaf...this is different from what Catholics practice. You claim the elements "turn into" the body and blood of Christ. Not so and some of the other Catholic practices surrounding communion veer off course...in my view to way to far an extent.