Revelation says ONE of it's heads is wounded

[endofdayz]

From a favorite teacher of mine, he thinks augustus may be the roman leader brought up.

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Thanks for the response and I will check out the book. It's great to see others have reached the same conclusion. I think Revelation 13 and 17 needs to be read this way.

I disagree about the late dates of Revelation being written. I agree with most scholars that it was written around 96 A.D. when Domitian was Emperor.

The bulk of traditional sources date the book to the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian (AD 81–96), which evidence tends to confirm.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation

Also, I don't think it's Augustus. He was friendly to the Jews. I think the end times will be about Christian persecution but the focus will be on Israel with Judah and Israel coming back together and the blindness going away.

This suggests to me that the Roman emperor that ascends out of the bottomless pit will be like Titus, Vespasian or Domitian not Augustus.

Augustus was the first Roman emperor (27 B.C.E.). The policies of Augustus toward the Jews of the Roman Empire in general, and the inhabitants of Judea in particular, followed the favorable line established by Julius Caesar . But with respect to Judea, the emperor's personal friendship with Herod probably played the decisive role.

Augustus

Augustus edict on the Jews was favorable:

The Date of Augustus' Edict on the Jews

The Date of Augustus' Edict on the Jews (Jos. AJ 16.162-165) and the Career of C. Marcius Censorinus on JSTOR

I will check out the book. Thanks for the info!

Here's more on Titus.

The siege lasted for about five months; it ended in August 70 CE on Tisha B'Av with the burning and destruction of the Second Temple.[7] The Romans then entered and sacked the Lower City. The Arch of Titus, celebrating the Roman sack of Jerusalem and the Temple, still stands in Rome. The conquest of the city was complete on approximately 8 September 70 CE. Josephus places the siege in the second year of Vespasian,[8] which corresponds to year 70 of the Common Era.

Overlooking the Temple compound, the fortress provided a perfect point from which to attack the Temple itself. Battering rams made little progress, but the fighting itself eventually set the walls on fire; a Roman soldier threw a burning stick onto one of the Temple's walls. Destroying the Temple was not among Titus's goals, possibly due in large part to the massive expansions done by Herod the Great mere decades earlier. Titus had wanted to seize it and transform it into a temple dedicated to the Roman Emperor and the Roman pantheon.

Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE) - Wikipedia

So like I said, I think it could be Titus but it could be any 1 of the 7 that will ascend out of the bottomless pit.

 

[Ligurian]

The little horn is the second Rev 13 beast, the false prophet, the son of perdition/destruction. Yes, he is a man that lived on the earth at one time and now he is in destruction, a division of Hades

There's hell... and then there's hell.
One is the grave... one is the lake of fire.
One is open all the time... one isn't open yet.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
haides = from a (as negative particle) and eido; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:--grave, hell.

Perdition is not a division of Hades... it's the lake of fire... which literally destroys.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
geena = of Hebrew origin (1516 and Hinnom); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:--hell.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast comes up from the pit, and WILL GO into Perdition. (If this were Greek Mythology 101, I'd tell you that the pit is where the Titans and Giants are kept.)

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy name: those that Thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

apoleia = from a presumed derivative of apollumi; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):--damnable(-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.
Apolluon = active participle of apollumi; a destroyer (i.e. Satan):--Apollyon.

 

[Ligurian]

I disagree about the late dates of Revelation being written. I agree with most scholars that it was written around 96 A.D. when Domitian was Emperor.

Augustus edict on the Jews was favorable:

What is the "Robinson Redating of the New Testament"?

So, the temple was still standing in Revelation... Yep, I saw it there, too.

And why would Augustus being favorable to the Jews mean much to the Christian Revelation? Did you forget that Pharisees were rounding up Christians, torturing them into blasphemy, and killing them... and Rome never batted an eye.
In fact, Pilate said, "see ye to it"... they were definitely allowed to murder.
Remember, Rome also made Edomite-Herodians the kings of Judea.

And then, there's persecution Under Nero, A.D. 67; Domitian, A.D. 81; etc., ad nauseam.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I disagree about the late dates of Revelation being written. I agree with most scholars that it was written around 96 A.D. when Domitian was Emperor.

Perhaps you meant to write that you agree with the late dates of Revelation being written? The proposed date of around AD 96 actually IS considered the "late date" for Revelation's composition. However, the collective internal evidence within Revelation and scripture itself dates Revelation's composition to a very precise window of time; that being somewhere between late AD 59 and early AD 60, just before the catastrophic AD 60 Laodicean earthquake, while that church was still patting itself on the back for their continued financial prosperity.

Christ told the Laodicean church through John that He was "about to spue thee out of my mouth". This was soon fulfilled for that Laodicean church when the earthquake struck that city in AD 60.

 

[Ligurian]

I'm not about to buy that book,
so where then in Daniel 11 does it ever say the king of the north is killed and then coming back to life?

Daniel 11:21 One shall stand on his place, who has been set a nought, and they have not put upon him the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in prosperously, and obtain the kingdom by deceitful ways. 22 And the arms of him that overflows shall be washed away as with a flood from before him, and shall be broken, and so shall be the head of the covenant. 23 And because of the leagues made with him he shall work deceit: and he shall come up, and overpower them with a small nation.LXX

 

[Ligurian]

From a favorite teacher of mine, he thinks augustus may be the roman leader brought up.​

Augustus died of natural causes.

The pit dwellers all seem to be armies that "lie uncircumcised among the slain with the sword, together with their terror and their strength"

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

As for Rome being the only city on seven hills... nope.

Revelation 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
The Seven Hills of Constantinople (Istanbul) - Dr. Andrew Jackson
Seven Hills of Jerusalem

Doesn't the Bible interpret itself, already?

Matthew 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Revelation 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in Me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Revelation 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast [it] into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
Matthew 23:34-35 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and of them ye shall kill and crucify; and of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killest the prophets...
Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Do we believe that Jesus' prophecies will come to pass... or don't we?

Matthew 21:44-45 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Daniel 2:34 Thou sawest until a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands, and it smote the image upon its feet of iron and earthenware, and utterly reduced them to powder.

Matthew 22:7 But when the king heard [thereof], He was wroth: and He sent forth His armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
Revelation 17:16-17 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

 

[DavidPT]

Daniel 11:21 One shall stand on his place, who has been set a nought, and they have not put upon him the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in prosperously, and obtain the kingdom by deceitful ways. 22 And the arms of him that overflows shall be washed away as with a flood from before him, and shall be broken, and so shall be the head of the covenant. 23 And because of the leagues made with him he shall work deceit: and he shall come up, and overpower them with a small nation.LXX

While I do agree that is meaning the king of the north, since I'm assuming that this is why you are bringing up these verses, I'm not seeing where any of that addresses that the KOTN is killed then comes back to life.

Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.


This is how the translation I'm using renders those same verses. Your translation says this--- who has been set a nought. I don't even know what that part is supposed to mean?

 

[Ligurian]

Daniel 11:21 One shall stand on his place, who has been set a nought, and they have not put upon him the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in prosperously, and obtain the kingdom by deceitful ways. 22 And the arms of him that overflows shall be washed away as with a flood from before him, and shall be broken, and so shall be the head of the covenant. 23 And because of the leagues made with him he shall work deceit: and he shall come up, and overpower them with a small nation.LXX

While I do agree that is meaning the king of the north, since I'm assuming that this is why you are bringing up these verses, I'm not seeing where any of that addresses that the KOTN is killed then comes back to life.

Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.


This is how the translation I'm using renders those same verses. Your translation says this--- who has been set a nought. I don't even know what that part is supposed to mean?

The Small Nation is the little horn, since the 10 horns will become kings in the time of the beast, these horns will represent their kingdoms, in the same way that the 7 heads are kings representing their kingdoms. The little horn is that vile person who speaks great things... even against those who dwell in Heaven. The little horn is the mouthpiece of the kingdom of the beast, having subjugated 3 horns.

The mountains are heads AND the waters upon which the woman sits, because she rules the kingdoms of the world. When the dragon is cast down from Heaven, will this fact remain true? What if, when Babylon falls, she is considered dead... until she becomes the cage for every foul beast, and vultures will lodge in her belfrys. At this time, her wounded and presumed dead nation will acquire the dragon king... the little horn.

Yes, I know, the Horn is a Nation... no wait, the Horn is a King. But Kings represent their Kingdoms... a bad king has a nation being called bad because of his actions. People say that America is bad because of what is done in our name... but when have a people ever controlled their own nation... much less had their wishes and needs represented by the actions of their overlords?