Revelation 20 and Jesus

[newton3005]

Is Revelation 20 in the past, or is it still in the future yet to come? Also, it speaks of perhaps three sets of a thousand years. The first set, described in Verse 2, involves an angel binding Satan up for a thousand years. The second set, described in Verse 4, tells of who some may refer to as martyrs, particularly those who lost their heads in standing up for Jesus, reigning with Jesus for a thousand years. The third set, perhaps, described in Verses 5 and 6, tells of the “rest of the dead” who will be part of a second resurrection if you will, and they will reign for another thousand years.

Two questions come to mind: One is. Are the thousand years consecutive one, or are they concurrent? If consecutive, we’re talking about three thousand years. The second question is when the first set, or all sets at once, of the thousand years, are slated to begin? Did they begin already, perhaps when Jesus is resurrected? If so, and they ran concurrently, then the thousand years is behind us and we are faced with Satan who may have been bound up for a time but is now once again free to roam to and fro and walk up and down it as he once did as described in Job 1:7. Well, it seems that Satan was always among us. Which may lead one to believe that if the three sets of a thousand years began with Jesus’ resurrection and are consecutive, we are in the third set of a thousand years in which the world is reigned by Jesus, added with the second group of the dead, with Satan going to and fro after being released for “a little while.” That would lead to a fourth question, which is how long Satan will be around after being released.

There is much to think about here. Whether these events have happened or will happen, we have no control over them. All we can do is to focus on what we do have control over, with God’s help. We can aim for righteousness while Satan walks about. We can arm ourselves against those who are possessed and led by Gog and Magog, but we may have to resign ourselves that they won’t go away but will do what they can to undo carrying out God’s Purpose for us.

And if the thousand years are yet to come, then how much should we worry? Jesus tells us in Matthew 6:34 when he says to “not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.”

 

[HTacianas]

Is Revelation 20 in the past, or is it still in the future yet to come? Also, it speaks of perhaps three sets of a thousand years. The first set, described in Verse 2, involves an angel binding Satan up for a thousand years. The second set, described in Verse 4, tells of who some may refer to as martyrs, particularly those who lost their heads in standing up for Jesus, reigning with Jesus for a thousand years. The third set, perhaps, described in Verses 5 and 6, tells of the “rest of the dead” who will be part of a second resurrection if you will, and they will reign for another thousand years.

Two questions come to mind: One is. Are the thousand years consecutive one, or are they concurrent? If consecutive, we’re talking about three thousand years. The second question is when the first set, or all sets at once, of the thousand years, are slated to begin? Did they begin already, perhaps when Jesus is resurrected? If so, and they ran concurrently, then the thousand years is behind us and we are faced with Satan who may have been bound up for a time but is now once again free to roam to and fro and walk up and down it as he once did as described in Job 1:7. Well, it seems that Satan was always among us. Which may lead one to believe that if the three sets of a thousand years began with Jesus’ resurrection and are consecutive, we are in the third set of a thousand years in which the world is reigned by Jesus, added with the second group of the dead, with Satan going to and fro after being released for “a little while.” That would lead to a fourth question, which is how long Satan will be around after being released.

There is much to think about here. Whether these events have happened or will happen, we have no control over them. All we can do is to focus on what we do have control over, with God’s help. We can aim for righteousness while Satan walks about. We can arm ourselves against those who are possessed and led by Gog and Magog, but we may have to resign ourselves that they won’t go away but will do what they can to undo carrying out God’s Purpose for us.

And if the thousand years are yet to come, then how much should we worry? Jesus tells us in Matthew 6:34 when he says to “not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.”

Christianity is amillennialist, meaning there is no fixed thousand years. It merely represents a long period of time. And the three sets of one thousand years you mentioned are all the same. It is the de facto position of Christianity that Christ currently reigns on the earth through his Church, therefore we are in the "millennium" now.

Also, as you said, we need not worry about any of those things. We know how we are to conduct ourselves and we should continue in that.

 

[Clare73]

Is Revelation 20 in the past, or is it still in the future yet to come? Also, it speaks of perhaps three sets of a thousand years. The first set, described in Verse 2, involves an angel binding Satan up for a thousand years. The second set, described in Verse 4, tells of who some may refer to as martyrs, particularly those who lost their heads in standing up for Jesus, reigning with Jesus for a thousand years. The third set, perhaps, described in Verses 5 and 6, tells of the “rest of the dead” who will be part of a second resurrection if you will, and they will reign for another thousand years.

Two questions come to mind: One is. Are the thousand years consecutive one, or are they concurrent? If consecutive, we’re talking about three thousand years. The second question is when the first set, or all sets at once, of the thousand years, are slated to begin? Did they begin already, perhaps when Jesus is resurrected? If so, and they ran concurrently, then the thousand years is behind us and we are faced with Satan who may have been bound up for a time but is now once again free to roam to and fro and walk up and down it as he once did as described in Job 1:7. Well, it seems that Satan was always among us. Which may lead one to believe that if the three sets of a thousand years began with Jesus’ resurrection and are consecutive, we are in the third set of a thousand years in which the world is reigned by Jesus, added with the second group of the dead, with Satan going to and fro after being released for “a little while.” That would lead to a fourth question, which is how long Satan will be around after being released.

There is much to think about here. Whether these events have happened or will happen, we have no control over them. All we can do is to focus on what we do have control over, with God’s help. We can aim for righteousness while Satan walks about. We can arm ourselves against those who are possessed and led by Gog and Magog, but we may have to resign ourselves that they won’t go away but will do what they can to undo carrying out God’s Purpose for us.

And if the thousand years are yet to come, then how much should we worry? Jesus tells us in Matthew 6:34 when he says to “not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.”

I see the thousand years as symbolic of the church age, where the first resurrection is in the new birth from eternal death to eternal life.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Is Revelation 20 in the past, or is it still in the future yet to come?

Still to come.
Chapter 2&3 describe the Church age, chapter 4 begins with 'and then'. So the Church age ends in chapter 3, then you have the 7 years of the antichrist also known as the week of Jacob's trouble, then Christ comes back, destroys the antichrist, then starts the millenium and satan is bound for 1000 years. Then he is released for a bit, then he is thrown in gehenna. Then will be the new Heaven and the Earth

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Christianity is amillennialist

So why were the Church Fathers premillenial? Polycarp, the disciple of Apostle John was a premillenial. No one understood the millenium better than Apostle John who was given the revelation, and he taugh his disciples the literal millenium after Christ returns.

 

[HTacianas]

So why were the Church Fathers premillenial? Polycarp, the disciple of Apostle John was a premillenial. No one understood the millenium better than Apostle John who was given the revelation, and he taugh his disciples the literal millenium after Christ returns.

Not all of the Church Fathers were premillenial. It was a debate that went on for hundreds of years. That's the primary reason why the Revelation was all but rejected by the Church. The mere mention of one thousand years nearly had it excluded from the canon. The idea of a millennium was finally abrogated with the condemnation of chiliasm. And it remained that way until the reformers decided to use it to malign the Pope and the Roman Church. They created numerous conflicting sets of their own doctrines and tore the Western Church apart with them.

 

[Clare73]

So why were the Church Fathers premillenial? Polycarp, the disciple of Apostle John was a premillenial. No one understood the millenium better than Apostle John who was given the revelation, and he taugh his disciples the literal millenium after Christ returns.

Demonstration that Polycarp was personally taught premillennialism by John, or that John was premillennial, keeping in mind prophets didn't necessarily know the meaning of their prophecies.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Not all of the Church Fathers were premillenial. It was a debate that went on for hundreds of years. That's the primary reason why the Revelation was all but rejected by the Church. The mere mention of one thousand years nearly had it excluded from the canon. The idea of a millennium was finally abrogated with the condemnation of chiliasm. And it remained that way until the reformers decided to use it to malign the Pope and the Roman Church. They created numerous conflicting sets of their own doctrines and tore the Western Church apart with them.

All Church did not reject premillenialism as it is taught by many churches and many born again Christians.

Historic premillennialism was held by a large majority of Christians during the first three centuries of the Christian era. Many of the church fathers such as Ireneaus, Papias, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Hippolytus, and others taught that there would be a visible kingdom of God upon the earth after the return of Christ.

Papias was one of the early Church Fathers who knew and heard from Apostle John and knew other Apostles too and he believed in physical millenium. He was also probably a personal acquaintance of the Apostle John.

Polycard was a disciple of Apostle John. He believed in physical millenium.

Justin Martyr in his Dialogue with Trypho (written cir. 155) describes the belief in a literal millennium as the orthodox doctrine, though admitting that some denied it. He sees the millennium centered in Jerusalem and predicted by Old Testament prophets. Justin wrote, “But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.”8Justin did mention that, “many who belong to pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” 9 Evidently there were already others who did not believe in a literal millennium at that point in history, but Justin does not supply their names.

So how is it that the ones who knew Apostle John taught about physcial millenium?

The disciples asked Jesus when He will restore the kingdom of Israel in acts 1 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
Jesus did not deny it, but said it is a future event that is yet to happen.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Demonstration that Polycarp was personally taught premillennialism by John, or that John was premillennial, keeping in mind prophets didn't necessarily know the meaning of their prophecies.

Explain why the ones who knew Apostle John believed in physical millenium. We can be almost certain then, Apostle John explained the millienial kingdom to them.

The disciples of Jesus asked Him in acts 1 6 about when He will establish the kingdom of Israel, to which Jesus said it is not for them to know, meaning it will happen one day.

The Jews in the day of Jesus were expecting Messiah to establish the kindom of Israel.

The fourth century church historian Eusebius considered Papias to be a primary source for the millennial views of early fathers. He wrote:

In these [Papias' accounts] he says there would be a certain millennium after the resurrection, and that there would be a corporeal reign of Christ on this very earth; which things he appears to have imagined, as if they were authorized by the apostolic narrations, not understanding correctly those matters which they propounded mystically in their representations. . . . yet he was the cause why most of the ecclesiastical writers, urging the antiquity of the man, were carried away by a similar opinion; as, for instance Irenaeus, or any other that adopted such sentiments.

The writer of the Epistle of Barnabas (cir. 117/132 AD ) held to the idea that after six thousand years of history that would correspond to six days of creation, there would be a seventh day “sabbath” rest which would last one thousand years. The following is from the Epistle of Barnabas:

Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, “He finished in six days.” This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, “Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years.” Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. “And He rested on the seventh day.” This meaneth: when His Son, coming again, shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day.

Justin Martyr in his Dialogue with Trypho (written cir. 155) describes the belief in a literal millennium as the orthodox doctrine, though admitting that some denied it. He sees the millennium centered in Jerusalem and predicted by Old Testament prophets. Justin wrote, “But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.”8Justin did mention that, “many who belong to pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” 9 Evidently there were already others who did not believe in a literal millennium at that point in history, but Justin does not supply their names.

We can even look into the Scripture what the millenium will look like:

Isaiah 11:1-10 which will be our main text for this sermon. “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; 3 And shall make Him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and He shall not judge after the sight of His eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of His ears: 4 But with righteousness shall He judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and He shall smite the earth: with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of His loins, and faithfulness the girdle of His reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and His rest shall be glorious.”

Do you see any of these happening today? No I do not think so.

Isaiah 65 20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

Do you see people today dying as 100 year olds and be considered young? I do not think so.

And when will the Messiah sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem? Do you see Him sitting there now?

 

[Clare73]

Explain why the ones who knew Apostle John believed in physical millenium. We can be almost certain then, Apostle John explained the millienial kingdom to them.

Almost. . .

The disciples of Jesus asked Him in acts 1 6 about when He will establish the kingdom of Israel, to which Jesus said it is not for them to know, meaning it will happen one day.
The Jews in the day of Jesus were expecting Messiah to establish the kindom of Israel.

I note that Jesus does not mention Israel in his response to them.

I also note that in the only passage in the Bible dealing with a millennium (Rev 20:4-6), there is no mention of Jews, Israel, Palestine, land or Jerusalem.

The fourth century church historian Eusebius considered Papias to be a primary source for the millennial views of early fathers. He wrote:

In these [Papias' accounts] he says there would be a certain millennium after the resurrection, and that there would be a corporeal reign of Christ on this very earth; which things he appears to have imagined, as if they were authorized by the apostolic narrations, not understanding correctly those matters which they propounded mystically in their representations. . . . yet he was the cause why most of the ecclesiastical writers, urging the antiquity of the man, were carried away by a similar opinion; as, for instance Irenaeus, or any other that adopted such sentiments.

The writer of the Epistle of Barnabas (cir. 117/132 AD ) held to the idea that after six thousand years of history that would correspond to six days of creation, there would be a seventh day “sabbath” rest which would last one thousand years. The following is from the Epistle of Barnabas:

Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, “He finished in six days.” This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, “Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years.” Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. “And He rested on the seventh day.” This meaneth: when His Son, coming again, shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day.

Justin Martyr in his Dialogue with Trypho (written cir. 155) describes the belief in a literal millennium as the orthodox doctrine, though admitting that some denied it. He sees the millennium centered in Jerusalem and predicted by Old Testament prophets. Justin wrote, “But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.”8Justin did mention that, “many who belong to pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” 9 Evidently there were already others who did not believe in a literal millennium at that point in history, but Justin does not supply their names.

We can even look into the Scripture what the millenium will look like:

Isaiah 11:1-10 which will be our main text for this sermon. “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord; 3 And shall make Him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and He shall not judge after the sight of His eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of His ears: 4 But with righteousness shall He judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and He shall smite the earth: with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of His loins, and faithfulness the girdle of His reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and His rest shall be glorious.”

Do you see any of these happening today?
No I do not think so.
Isaiah 65 20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
Do you see people today dying as 100 year olds and be considered young? I do not think so.
And when will the Messiah sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem? Do you see Him sitting there now?

Keeping in mind those are prophetic riddles, which I do not see as literal, but as figurative, in light of
God telling Miriam and Aaron that while he spoke to Moses clearly, he spoke to the prophets in riddles (dark sayings), not clearly (Nu 12:8), so I see it as a mistake to interpret all prophecy literally, particularly when so much personal interpretation is in disagreement with NT apostolic teaching authoritative to God's people (Lk 10:16).

 

[eleos1954]

Is Revelation 20 in the past, or is it still in the future yet to come? Also, it speaks of perhaps three sets of a thousand years. The first set, described in Verse 2, involves an angel binding Satan up for a thousand years. The second set, described in Verse 4, tells of who some may refer to as martyrs, particularly those who lost their heads in standing up for Jesus, reigning with Jesus for a thousand years. The third set, perhaps, described in Verses 5 and 6, tells of the “rest of the dead” who will be part of a second resurrection if you will, and they will reign for another thousand years.

Two questions come to mind: One is. Are the thousand years consecutive one, or are they concurrent? If consecutive, we’re talking about three thousand years. The second question is when the first set, or all sets at once, of the thousand years, are slated to begin? Did they begin already, perhaps when Jesus is resurrected? If so, and they ran concurrently, then the thousand years is behind us and we are faced with Satan who may have been bound up for a time but is now once again free to roam to and fro and walk up and down it as he once did as described in Job 1:7. Well, it seems that Satan was always among us. Which may lead one to believe that if the three sets of a thousand years began with Jesus’ resurrection and are consecutive, we are in the third set of a thousand years in which the world is reigned by Jesus, added with the second group of the dead, with Satan going to and fro after being released for “a little while.” That would lead to a fourth question, which is how long Satan will be around after being released.

There is much to think about here. Whether these events have happened or will happen, we have no control over them. All we can do is to focus on what we do have control over, with God’s help. We can aim for righteousness while Satan walks about. We can arm ourselves against those who are possessed and led by Gog and Magog, but we may have to resign ourselves that they won’t go away but will do what they can to undo carrying out God’s Purpose for us.

And if the thousand years are yet to come, then how much should we worry? Jesus tells us in Matthew 6:34 when he says to “not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.”

There is not 3 sets of 1,000 years.

The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints (from the 1st resurrection and the saved dead alive at that time) are taken to heaven between the first and second resurrections. Very clear here what happens at His return.

1 Thessalonians 4

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close, Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth.

The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected after the 1,000 years, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city ( Armageddon) battle of Gog and Magog) ; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Revelation 20; 1 Corinthians 6:2, 3; Jeremiah 4:23-26; Revelation 21:1-5; Malachi. 4:1; Ezekiel 28:18, 19.)

 

[HTacianas]

All Church did not reject premillenialism as it is taught by many churches and many born again Christians.

Historic premillennialism was held by a large majority of Christians during the first three centuries of the Christian era. Many of the church fathers such as Ireneaus, Papias, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Hippolytus, and others taught that there would be a visible kingdom of God upon the earth after the return of Christ.

Papias was one of the early Church Fathers who knew and heard from Apostle John and knew other Apostles too and he believed in physical millenium. He was also probably a personal acquaintance of the Apostle John.

Polycard was a disciple of Apostle John. He believed in physical millenium.

Justin Martyr in his Dialogue with Trypho (written cir. 155) describes the belief in a literal millennium as the orthodox doctrine, though admitting that some denied it. He sees the millennium centered in Jerusalem and predicted by Old Testament prophets. Justin wrote, “But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.”8Justin did mention that, “many who belong to pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.” 9 Evidently there were already others who did not believe in a literal millennium at that point in history, but Justin does not supply their names.

So how is it that the ones who knew Apostle John taught about physcial millenium?

The disciples asked Jesus when He will restore the kingdom of Israel in acts 1 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
Jesus did not deny it, but said it is a future event that is yet to happen.

If you look to one of the sources you quoted, it says there are many who thought otherwise. Not that it was some minority view among very few, but among many. That was the debate going at the time concerning the millennium. But the matter was resolved by the Church when it abrogated the teaching of the millennium. And they did it under the authority of Jesus Christ. It's gone. There is no millennium.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

If you look to one of the sources you quoted, it says there are many who thought otherwise. Not that it was some minority view among very few, but among many. That was the debate going at the time concerning the millennium. But the matter was resolved by the Church when it abrogated the teaching of the millennium. And they did it under the authority of Jesus Christ. It's gone. There is no millennium.

Ok keep believing that, we shall see soon enough

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Keeping in mind those are prophetic riddles, which I do not see as literal, but as figurative,

Zechariah 9 9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; righteous and having salvation is he, humble and mounted on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey

Was this figurative also?

 

[Clare73]

Zechariah 9 9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; righteous and having salvation is he, humble and mounted on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey

Was this figurative also?

Fulfilled prophecy is easy to interpret, as in Da 2.