Rev. 21 question

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[dana b]

Why do you think John added the part for cubits as to a man in Rev.21, when an angel was doing the measuring?


Re 21:17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, accordng to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

You know that a hundred and forty and four cubits also represents the 12 tribes of Israel squared(regenerated Matt.19;28), and also the six days of creation with their 24 hours each.

................24 hours in a day
........times 6 days of Genesis Creation
..equals - 144

When a day = 1000 years it means this number would be 144,000.2 Pet.3;8 In this case we would expect that this verse is talking about Mankind's 6000 years being completed. The number 144,000 therefore indicates the fulfillment of exactly 6000 years.

6 times 24 = 144 (this shows God's 6 days of Genesis Creation)
6 times 24 = 144 times 1000(man's court 2Pet.3;8) man's =6000yrs.

How is it a "measure of a man?" Well this number 144 is derived by measuring "the man Israel" by his 12 sons after they had become tribes and regenerated as the Christian Covenant in 2000AD.

And it is the "spirit man" because the lost tribes to whom Christianity was taken have today become Christian nations who follow the spirit of the law, not just the dead word of law like they used to. Jer.31;31

Maybe you can find something in my wordy answer to help figuring this verse Rev.21;17. I would be interested.

 

[Isatis]

Why do you think John added the part for cubits as to a man in Rev.21, when an angel was doing the measuring?


Re 21:17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, accordng to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

so we know these measurements are to be taken literally.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You know that a hundred and forty and four cubits also represents the 12 tribes of Israel squared(regenerated Matt.19;28), and also the six days of creation with their 24 hours each.

................24 hours in a day
........times 6 days of Genesis Creation
..equals - 144

When a day = 1000 years it means this number would be 144,000.2 Pet.3;8 In this case we would expect that this verse is talking about Mankind's 6000 years being completed. The number 144,000 therefore indicates the fulfillment of exactly 6000 years.

6 times 24 = 144 (this shows God's 6 days of Genesis Creation)
6 times 24 = 144 times 1000(man's court 2Pet.3;8) man's =6000yrs.

How is it a "measure of a man?" Well this number 144 is derived by measuring "the man Israel" by his 12 sons after they had become tribes and regenerated as the Christian Covenant in 2000AD.

And it is the "spirit man" because the lost tribes to whom Christianity was taken have today become Christian nations who follow the spirit of the law, not just the dead word of law like they used to. Jer.31;31

Maybe you can find something in my wordy answer to help figuring this verse Rev.21;17. I would be interested.

I think you have an interesting manner of thinking about the 144,000 and the measure of a man.
In Ezekiel 47, the measure of the cubits = thousand year days [of the one week of seven thousand years for this present creation]; after four thousand "cubits" -four thousand year days- the River of Life [typing the Living Spirit/Christ] flowing out from the throne of the temple [typing the heavenly temple] becomes so wide and deep a man cannot pass over. Christ is come in flesh at the end of the fourth thousand year Day, which is after mid-week, and the "last days" of earth's one week of thousand year days. So many souls are born again in Christ and added to that River of Life [adopted into the Living Spirit/Christ] that the River is immpossible to cross over, after that.

 

[dana b]

I think you have an interesting manner of thinking about the 144,000 and the measure of a man.
In Ezekiel 47, the measure of the cubits = thousand year days [of the one week of seven thousand years for this present creation]; after four thousand "cubits" -four thousand year days- the River of Life [typing the Living Spirit/Christ] flowing out from the throne of the temple [typing the heavenly temple] becomes so wide and deep a man cannot pass over. Christ is come in flesh at the end of the fourth thousand year Day, which is after mid-week, and the "last days" of earth's one week of thousand year days. So many souls are born again in Christ and added to that River of Life [adopted into the Living Spirit/Christ] that the River is immpossible to cross over, after that.

Christ came on the 4th day(4th millennium), because he is as the sun.(actually the Sun is as him)

"The Sun of righteousness..." Mal.4;2

"I am come a light into the world." Jn.12;46

"His countenance was as the Sun." Matt.17;2

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Christ came on the 4th day(4th millennium), because he is as the sun.(actually the Sun is as him)

"The Sun of righteousness..." Mal.4;2

"I am come a light into the world." Jn.12;46

"His countenance was as the Sun." Matt.17;2

Yes, the sun was prepared and set in the heavens on day 4, as a type of the New Man flesh body, made for the Glory to dwell in.
Jesus is Emmanuel, God tabernacling in the prepared body of flesh, and the Glory of God. The sun, as the type of His own prepared New Man body, is also where the dwelling of God the Glory is set , and where His throne in the heavens is. I once made a thread about the Word telling us that "in the sun hath He set His tabernacle/dwelling place", and there are many relevant Scriptures.


The Created Temple of God, Which is in the Created Heavens
http://www.christianforums.com/t7259341/

 

[dana b]

Yes, the sun was prepared and set in the heavens on day 4, as a type of the New Man flesh body, made for the Glory to dwell in.
Jesus is Emmanuel, God tabernacling in the prepared body of flesh, and the Glory of God. The sun, as the type of His own prepared New Man body, is also where the dwelling of God the Glory is set , and where His throne in the heavens is. I once made a thread about the Word telling us that "in the sun hath He set His tabernacle/dwelling place", and there are many relevant Scriptures.


The Created Temple of God, Which is in the Created Heavens
http://www.christianforums.com/t7259341/

I've just been reading your other post about the Sun. Most people when they first connect the symbology are amazed at the correspondences throughout the bible. I am glad that you can relate to Jesus and the Sun coming on the fourth day.(4 millennium after Adam) So how then do you feel about advancing these correspondences further?

One day with the lord is as a thousand. 2Pet.3;8


3000AD.........Judgment Day.........................

..........Day of Rest(Christian Millenium)Rev.20;6......Gen. Day 7

2000AD.....................................................

.........1500AD - Age of Enlightenment......Mankind created Day 6
.........................Dark Ages...................Animals created

1000AD......................................................

.........Constantine spreads Christianity under Eagle - Fowl Day 5
.........Christians use the sign of the fish..................Fish

000................RESURRECTED....................................
JESUS CHRIST crucified....................................Sun
....................O.T. cannonized(500BC)...............Moon....Day 4
....................The Prophets(800-500BC).............Stars
1000BC................................................................

......Israel living/florishing in promised land ...Plants(air)....Day 3

2000BC.....Crossing Red Sea/Jordan on "dry land."(twice mentioned)

......................................divided the waters on Genesis Day 2

3000BC.....................NOAH'S FLOOD

..................................................created the earth on Day 1
4000BC...........Adam and Eve begin farming..............................


The 31 verses of Genesis Chapter One seem to tell us two stories at the same time.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I've just been reading your other post about the Sun. Most people when they first connect the symbology are amazed at the correspondences throughout the bible. I am glad that you can relate to Jesus and the Sun coming on the fourth day.(4 millennium after Adam) So how then do you feel about advancing these correspondences further?

One day with the lord is as a thousand. 2Pet.3;8

Actually, I haven't personally had enlightenment/revelation about all God's years and the different manners He calculates them with, so as to make a clock, so to speak, of His intersecting methods of counting time, both on earth and in heaven.
We have literal 24 hour days in Genesis creation week and earth is given one week of thousand year days, with the last being the Sabbath for earth. Then we have Jubilee years of every 50th year, and 140 Jubilee years allotted for this present creation.
But there is another method He counts time with, using a cycle for the Church that is different than that for Israel. In Enoch -Ethiopian Enoch] we have the revelation of ten weeks which are, at the first, 700 years long, each, and yet they stop being counted when Jesus is crucified and risen, for Israel, and begin to be counted again after the Church is removed from the midst of the earth. The problem is though, that the last of them to fulfill the ten are not 700 years long after they begin to be counted again, and that is a complete mystery to me, still and I find not one clue to why in Moses or in Jesus doctrines [as given to John], nor in Enoch. Perhaps it is there in plain sight, but hidden until the time for understanding, as so many things in the Word have been, through the ages, which are opened at the proper time and then it seems so simple to understand it. God does seal understanding of things until it is time to "see", but they are there in plain sight and we look behind and understand, but we can't see it looking forward.

 

[dana b]

Actually, I haven't personally had enlightenment/revelation about all God's years and the different manners He calculates them with, so as to make a clock, so to speak, of His intersecting methods of counting time,

Perhaps it is there in plain sight, but hidden until the time for understanding, as so many things in the Word have been, through the ages, which are opened at the proper time and then it seems so simple to understand it. God does seal understanding of things until it is time to "see", but they are there in plain sight and we look behind and understand, but we can't see it looking forward.

Yeah, like this;



HEBREW CALENDAR......................CHRISTIAN CALLENDAR

7000 years after Adam....................................3000 AD

......THE MILLENNIUM OF REST Heb.4;4-7, Lk.22;30

6000 years after Adam....................................2000 AD

5000 years after Adam....................................1000 AD

4000 years after Adam..................JESUS CHRIST CRUCIFIED

3000 years after Adam....................................1000 BC

2000 years after Adam....................................2000 BC

1000 years after Adam....................................3000 BC

......Adam and Eve farming in Mesopotamia.........4000 BC

The Bible tells us that for six days God laboured creating this world and then rested on the seventh. In this same pattern but over six thousand years our world has followed similarly until the present time when we have arrived at the seventh day.

The Hebrew and Israelites have always begun their calendar from the time of Adam in Mesopotamia whom is generally thought to have lived around 4000BC. This would mean that their date would now be about 6000 years or more after Adam. With the culmination of this 6000 year period of world history, the millennium of rest is expected to begin.

Christianity meanwhile, has set up it's own time-keeping calendar based on the same principle of a day equaling a thousand years.2Pet.3;8 Jesus was crucified and then rose on the morning of the third day. In this same way and following this pattern a Christian Israel kingdom was expected during this third millennium. After Christ's crucifixion on Calvary Hill more than 2000 years ago, his followers the Christians began using their new calendar dating from his time in order to count the years until this millennium.

From the time of Christ, until the year 1000AD constituted the first day while from 1000AD until 2000AD would be the second day. The beginning of the 21st century is therefore the beginning of the third 1000 year period after Jesus Christ's crucifixion and is therefore the morning of the third day. In this way it appears that the Christians and the earlier Hebrews were both expectant of the coming Millennium at the same time.

*I'd like to learn about the other timekeeping method you are researching if you have some time to state it simply for me. thanks Daniel b.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[zeke37]

what do you think V ?

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[busdriver72]

The cubit was not a set measurement.

Interesting how a simple question in the original post evolved into something else.
Really, is the issue of the "cubit" that serious of a theological issue?
Maybe the idea being conveyed is that the act of measuring does two things:
1) It indicates that there is a reality to it...there IS a real, genuine "New Jerusalem." It's not just symbolic. The act of measuring indicates realness. (Personally I equate New Jerusalem with the "Father's house" that Christ spoke of in which there are many dwelling places.)
2) While we may debate about the length of measurement (or the meaning of the numbers) perhaps, again, we are simply being given something concrete for our minds. While we cannot know the size down to the exact millimeter...we don't need to....we have an idea of the size and scope of it as well as the beauty and majesty.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[yeshuasavedme]

I don't know, that is why I wanted to see what other people on here think about it. I wonder if we are to use it as a key to someting else, such as the number of the name of the beast. Nebchadnezzar made a golden image -60 by 6 cubits. But I don't know how big the plain of Shinar was where he had it set. It was made of gold, so is gold the link, or maybe it has nothing to do with Rev. 13?

John had earlier in Rev. 21 referred to furlongs, yet he didn't feel the need to tell us how long that was.
The angel was going to measure the city, wall, and the gates.

I just find it odd to relate cubits to the measure of a man, unless John had a certain man/king in mind. The cubit was not a set measurement.

Just maybe the cubit of a man is measuring physical things, and the cubit of YHWH measures time?? -not that it matters, just that cubits in Ezekiel 47 are time measures.

 

[busdriver72]

Will there be nations with kings over them in the new earth?

v 24 And the nations of them which are saved...and the kings of the earth...
Rev. 21

The Scripture says to those who "overcome" they will rule and reign with Christ....the Apostle Paul said that we will "judge angels."
The exact pattern and method that the Almighty will use to do this....who knows?
However He does it....it will be perfect....like He does everything else.

 

[Tractor1]

Why do you think John added the part for cubits as to a man in Rev.21, when an angel was doing the measuring?


Re 21:17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, accordng to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

A. T. Robertson identifies the word measure (Gr., metron) as "the accusative case of general reference in apposition with the verb emetresen." The implication of this statement is that whether man or angel measured it, the measurement would be the same. Word Picutres in the New Testament, VI, 474

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[dana b]

I was looking over Revelation again to try to figure out some things that I had questions on. I started at the back of the book. I have just wondered at times why John added that part.

Since we're on this chapter...here is my other question>

Will there be nations with kings over them in the new earth?

v 24 And the nations of them which are saved...and the kings of the earth...
Rev. 21

Yes there will be 12 sovreign nations in the reganerated millennium New Jerusalm. They are the re-generated tribes of Israel who followed Jesus and became Christian nations.

And now that the 7th seal has been opened the mysteries are visable. The New Jerusalem is indeed as long as it is wide in measurment. Rev.21;16

And the 12 gates do indeed have the names of the 12 tribes/regenerated written upon them. The Christian nations are all in place just as they are described in Eze.48;31-35 To see this for yourself you can look at a "Lambert's azimuthal equal area projection of a full map of Eurasia. This is the only map that contains all of the entire continent including Spain. Some more modern maps cut half of Spain off and the distances thereby become changed. This special map is often found in the National Geographic Atlas, Readers Digest Atlas, many old school atlases. But lately it has for some reason been excluded in modern map making. I cannot find it on the internet.

If you get one you can measure the miracles of Rev.21 for yourself!