Retired California Bishop Takes Pope's Invitation to Speak His Mind

[FriendofFrancis]

we would not have a pastor in every parish
because we would not have priests
because women are incapable of being priests
so no liturgy

How can you limit God? Francis teaches that God is revealed through people. What is more important, feeding souls or denying those who thirst?

 

[stray bullet]

we would not have a pastor in every parish
because we would not have priests
because women are incapable of being priests
so no liturgy

Liturgy is a very vague term, women can lead a liturgy, I believe, just not a Mass. You are right though - simulating women being ordained and telling people they are priests means false communion.

 

[Fantine]

Women lead liturgy of the hours in convents all the time, probably for many centuries.

 

[Rhamiel]

How can you limit God? Francis teaches that God is revealed through people. What is more important, feeding souls or denying those who thirst?

I am not limiting God

but I am being faithful to the reveled truth that God has made known to us

women can not be priests, this is the teaching of the Church that was founded by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit

for women to dress up and ape at being a priest would be a rejection of the wishes of our Lord, who choose only men to be Apostles

we are called not to be rebels to the King of All Creation
we are called to be His faithful servants

 

[Davidnic]

Women lead liturgy of the hours in convents all the time, probably for many centuries.

Yeah but that is different from the Divine Liturgy (The Mass). As Stray points out liturgy is a vague term. I think we all know what was meant.

 

[Davidnic]

How can you limit God? Francis teaches that God is revealed through people. What is more important, feeding souls or denying those who thirst?

Well Pope Francis also confirmed that the question of women being priests has been decided by the Church and is not for real discussion that will change anything.

As he said:

"The church has spoken and says no ... That door is closed."

He added: "With regards to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says no. Pope John Paul [II] said so with a formula that was definitive. That door is closed."

And JPII's formula was indeed definitive. Theologically it can not change. I suppose people can discuss it as an exercise and make the arguments they make. But the way the Church works it can not change.

As far as denying those who thirst...it depends what they thirst for. If they thirst for God but want to have that thirst satisfied in a way that He says no to; then it is not a charity to allow that.

Like I said before, I am not personally opposed to talking about it and discussing why and why not. But I see no way to overcome the constant teaching of the Church on the matter. I also see no reason to overcome the constant teaching of the Church on the matter. But, with rare exceptions, I discussion is healthy. So I would like to see the Bishop, as a private theologian as he is, state his case. But I do not expect it to counter what exists in the long run.

 

[katerinah1947]

Well Pope Francis also confirmed that the question of women being priests has been decided by the Church and is not for real discussion that will change anything.

As he said:

"The church has spoken and says no ... That door is closed."

He added: "With regards to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says no. Pope John Paul [II] said so with a formula that was definitive. That door is closed."

And JPII's formula was indeed definitive. Theologically it can not change. I suppose people can discuss it as an exercise and make the arguments they make. But the way the Church works it can not change.

As far as denying those who thirst...it depends what they thirst for. If they thirst for God but want to have that thirst satisfied in a way that He says no to; then it is not a charity to allow that.

Like I said before, I am not personally opposed to talking about it and discussing why and why not. But I see no way to overcome the constant teaching of the Church on the matter. I also see no reason to overcome the constant teaching of the Church on the matter. But, with rare exceptions, I discussion is healthy. So I would like to see the Bishop, as a private theologian as he is, state his case. But I do not expect it to counter what exists in the long run.

Hi,

I understand now what you meant, I think. You would like him, not someone else explain why he thinks some women, just like some only males, can be priests?

All priests or deacons I imagine, are called by God, and in my case that is so. However in all places some of them, it is very hard to see why God called them. In some cases it seems, they called themselves. It is and was not God.

You are aking for his , reasons, and no one elses. I did not know that before this response.

LOVE,
...Mary Katie., .... .

 

[Davidnic]

Well it is not even why some women, but how it is possible for any woman to enter the ordained priestly ministry. In the Theology revealed by God to the Catholic Church it is not possible. Unless he has some argument that the Pope's have not already refuted.

I think, that since he wrote what he wrote...we will see more in the future on just how he thinks it is possible even though the Church does not.

 

[katerinah1947]

Well it is not even why some women, but how it is possible for any woman to enter the ordained priestly ministry. In the Theology revealed by God to the Catholic Church it is not possible. Unless he has some argument that the Pope's have not already refuted.

I think, that since he wrote what he wrote...we will see more in the future on just how he thinks it is possible even though the Church does not.

Hi,

The church as you recall has apologized for a few things. And although I am sort of an expert on God, Trinitarianly, and what I was taught by my teacher Biblically, church rules and the way they word things, is not my expertise. My knowledge is of God, by way of what I had to know, in order to answer that Single question, that He had put to me in late 2007.

So, what you say, and the theologically infallible it is, belongs at this time to others, in God's world to work on, almost exclusively.

Faustina and others, seem to remind the church of things that are forgotten. I think Divine Mercy Sunday, is merely a reminder of what once existed in the church, but was forgotten about over time.

I am, who I say I am, and that is confirmed by a Test given to me, but verified to a Spiritual Director of The Roman Catholic Church, as being confirmed by The Holy Spirit Himself, so it is binding upon me for all of eternity, and beyond, if that makes any sense right now.

My view to you, from my background, is not what you asked for. I thought you had asked for it.

But, I sure hope Paul's comments, which are very clear, are not indeed somehow not understood precisely the way God meant those words to be understood then, but by a different meaning now, then, then.

LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .

 

[Erose]

I would like to point out that all of this has been tried before, and please can anyone tell me how well it has helped the Anglican communions?

Last I checked their numbers are still dropping, and it is at risk of dying out altogether, if something doesn't get better.

So if doing all these things hasn't helped the Anglicans how on earth is it going to help us?

 

[benedictaoo]

How can you limit God? Francis teaches that God is revealed through people. What is more important, feeding souls or denying those who thirst?

But a woman priestess would invalid the Mass itself. This is not within anyone's control. Not even the pope. The Mass would be invalid if a woman were to say the Mass no matter how many popes gave a go ahead.

 

[benedictaoo]

Also, I think it's worth mentioning JPll didn't have to be speaking ex cathedra to be speaking from the chair of Peter. There is the ordinary magisterium and the extraordinary. He spoke (and this one, Francis, too) from the chair in the capacity of his office confirming, upholding, transmitting and protecting the deposit of faith that Jesus and the apostles gave to us. The matter really is closed because this is something that comes from Jesus so those who are hoping are wasting a lot of energy and effort.

 

[Rhamiel]

I would like to point out that all of this has been tried before, and please can anyone tell me how well it has helped the Anglican communions?

Last I checked their numbers are still dropping, and it is at risk of dying out altogether, if something doesn't get better.

So if doing all these things hasn't helped the Anglicans how on earth is it going to help us?

The Anglicans, the Methodist, some of the Lutheran synods
not really groups we want to be mimicking

@benedictaoo you make a good point about the ordinary infallibility of the Magisterium
this has been the teaching in both East and West since the beginning
we are NOT called to be theological innovators, but rather to pass down the true faith which has been revealed by God

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi,

At a certain point, Jesus told what would be the up and coming Bishops of the day something, that is a painful lesson to me, until I leaned it.

The lesson is the lesson from Mark 9:38-42, and probably Romans 14 also. And, for me that applies more than it does for anyone here it seems.

How I learned the lesson here, was by actually feeling how upset God was with me.

LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .

 

[stray bullet]

Hi,

At a certain point, Jesus told what would be the up and coming Bishops of the day something, that is a painful lesson to me, until I leaned it.

The lesson is the lesson from Mark 9:38-42, and probably Romans 14 also. And, for me that applies more than it does for anyone here it seems.

How I learned the lesson here, was by actually feeling how upset God was with me.

LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .

And the problem is when people offer things under the guise of sacraments.

 

[katerinah1947]

And the problem is when people offer things under the guise of sacraments.

Hi,

What did you just say? I know people. I know of sacraments. I have no idea what you meant. None.

LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .

 

[stray bullet]

The topic has discussed "women priests" and non-Catholic faith groups.

 

[katerinah1947]

The topic has discussed "women priests" and non-Catholic faith groups.

Hi,

And how is discussing those two items, offerings, under the guise of Sacraments, what ever 'guise of Sacraments' means to you.?

LOVE,
...Mary Katerina., .... .

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

Sounds like be means to say that outside of the Roman Catholic church most church bodies do not have calls sacraments and thus says that these things are only offered under the guise of sacraments, since they are not really sacraments to begin with.

 

[FriendofFrancis]

Lutherans, like Catholics believe in the Real Presence.