Resurrection

[Xeno.of.athens]

When a person dies where do they go?

Heaven, or hell, perhaps purgatory as a preliminary to heaven?

So, why is there such a thing as resurrection?

 

[sandman]

When a person dies where do they go?

Heaven, or hell, perhaps purgatory as a preliminary to heaven?

So, why is there such a thing as resurrection?

I think you answered your own question of “where do they go”… with … “why is there such a thing as resurrection”?

A resurrection certainly wouldn’t be necessary if people went somewhere.

The Bible states they are metaphorically asleep (dead) until the “gathering together unto Him” or “the resurrection(s)”….. Anything other than that…. is man devised speculation.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I think you answered your own question of “where do they go”… with … “why is there such a thing as resurrection”?

A resurrection certainly wouldn’t be necessary if people went somewhere.

The Bible states they are metaphorically asleep (dead) until the “gathering together unto Him” or “the resurrection(s)”….. Anything other than that…. is man devised speculation.

Where did you learn of a metaphorical sleep?

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Xeno.of.athens, here are a couple of links to earlier threads/posts about this topic (known as "the sleep of the soul") that you may be interested in reading.

Some say Heaven is on hold for awhile

Indeed that is what He does. What He does not do is claim that He is about to go to Paradise - since John 20 informs us that Jesus had not even been there by the time of His resurrection on Sunday. Jesus' statement is "verily I say to you today" -- on the day of His crucifixion apparently alone...

www.christianforums.com

​

As a Christian: do you believe we exist beyond the death of our physical body?

I dunno .... ask him. Being asleep in the grave is not contrary to God's Word. btw, he did. But here, what was it then you do not accept any more 100percent ?

www.christianforums.com

This doctrine is held by a number of cults, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, and now by one church as well, the Seventh-Day Adventists (they do not believe that the souls of believers are conscious during the Intermediate State and in Heaven with the Lord, rather, they believe that we are dead, BOTH body and soul, and that both lie interred together until the resurrection at the end of the age).

All of the rest of the Christian churches and denominations, Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant, have held and continue to hold this doctrine ("the sleep of the soul") to be heretical, believing instead in the conscious existence of a believer's soul in the Lord's presence in Heaven during the Intermediate State (the time between one's physical death and bodily resurrection from the grave).

The top link above will show you a number of the Scriptures that the historic Christian church cites as the reasons for their belief in a conscious Intermediate State (as well some of the reasoning behind it), just FYI.

The reason that we will be reunited with our new/glorified physical bodies at the end of the age is because we will be living with God on the New Earth for the balance of eternity, not it Heaven. We will have glorified bodies like the one that the Lord Jesus has had since His Resurrection.

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - see 1 Corinthians 15
.

 

[sandman]

Where did you learn of a metaphorical sleep?

1Th 4:13 - 18

I am not referring to soul sleep, which is a lie perpetrated by Plato and assimilated into religious doctrine.

 

[ViaCrucis]

When a person dies where do they go?

Heaven, or hell, perhaps purgatory as a preliminary to heaven?

The intermediate state. Either a foretaste of future glory ("heaven") or a foretaste of future judgment ("hell").

So, why is there such a thing as resurrection?

Because "the earth is the LORD's and all it contains" "The heavens declare the glory of God", "God saw all that He had made and He said it was exceedingly good."

God is going to be faithful to His creation, and that means the renewal and restoration of all things: New Heavens and New Earth, and we ourselves shall therefore partake of that by the resurrection of the body. We are, even now, made new and being made new by God's grace, "He who began a good work in you will continue that good work until the Day of the Lord Jesus"; so the work began now by our regeneration God will continue until the resurrection of our body. When death is defeated, death is swallowed up in victory, and God shall be all in all.

We were not created to be "naked spirits", but fully bodied human beings who bear the Divine Likeness by reflecting God's goodness and love to creation, and reflecting creation to God as worship. The Fall has not thwarted God's design, rather God has given promise, His own word, that He will set all creation to rights.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

1Th 4:13 - 18

I am not referring to soul sleep, which is a lie perpetrated by Plato and assimilated into religious doctrine.

What are you referring to when you write "The Bible states they are metaphorically asleep (dead) until the “gathering together unto Him” or “the resurrection(s)”….. Anything other than that…. is man devised speculation."?

 

[sandman]

What are you referring to when you write "The Bible states they are metaphorically asleep (dead) until the “gathering together unto Him” or “the resurrection(s)”….. Anything other than that…. is man devised speculation."?

Sleep is used as a metaphor for death (the end of natural human existence) and it’s a great metaphor for two reasons. Death is a harsh word and sleep softens the blow. The other reason is.... when you sleep (a good nights sleep) your next moment of awareness is beep, beep, beep… if you use an alarm clock. When you die (fall asleep) your next moment of awareness will be Gods alarm trumpet for those of us in this administration (dispensation) of Grace. (1Th 4:16)
For those prior to this covenant…. before Pentecost believers, it will be the trumpet from the angels (Mat 24:31)

The word sleep will be distinguished in the context of death ….(1Co 15:51, 1Th 5:10, Act 13:36)
It is also used as normal sleep (Act 16:27). And it is used as being out to lunch (not paying attention) (1Th 5:6)

Any other explanations that you have heard regarding death going to “Heaven, or hell, perhaps purgatory as a preliminary to heaven” Are mans devised theories they are not biblical Truths. Which is why I stated …You wouldn’t need a resurrection if we were already in those places.

 

[BobRyan]

When a person dies where do they go?

In the case of all humans --

Eccl 12:6 Remember your Creator before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the spring is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed; 7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Matt 10: 28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

And AFTER that we see the appearing of Christ in future -- so then in the case of the saints

1 Thess 4:13-18​

1 Thess 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.​

​

John 11:​

11 This He said, and after this He *said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going so that I may awaken him from sleep.” 12 The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will come out of it.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about actual sleep.​

Heaven, or hell, perhaps purgatory as a preliminary to heaven?

None of the above. Which is why there is a judgment future and not one at the instant of death. (but the spirit of all humans does go to God at death)

Judgment future to Paul's day - as we see in Rom 2:13-16
Judgment future to Paul's day as we see in 2 Cor 5:10
A time comes near the end of the world when finally it can be said "The Hour of His judgment has come" Rev 14:7

So, why is there such a thing as resurrection?

Very good question.

1 Peter 1:13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, set your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ

the NT saints were not focused on their death - but rather on being united with Christ at his appearing.

Matt 22 - Jesus said that the only way God can claim to be the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob - is for there to be a future resurrection.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Sleep is used as a metaphor for death (the end of natural human existence) and it’s a great metaphor for two reasons. Death is a harsh word and sleep softens the blow. The other reason is.... when you sleep (a good nights sleep) your next moment of awareness is beep, beep, beep… if you use an alarm clock. When you die (fall asleep) your next moment of awareness will be Gods alarm trumpet for those of us in this administration (dispensation) of Grace. (1Th 4:16)
For those prior to this covenant…. before Pentecost believers, it will be the trumpet from the angels (Mat 24:31)

The word sleep will be distinguished in the context of death ….(1Co 15:51, 1Th 5:10, Act 13:36)
It is also used as normal sleep (Act 16:27). And it is used as being out to lunch (not paying attention) (1Th 5:6)

Any other explanations that you have heard regarding death going to “Heaven, or hell, perhaps purgatory as a preliminary to heaven” Are mans devised theories they are not biblical Truths. Which is why I stated …You wouldn’t need a resurrection if we were already in those places.

Why do you believe that death is like sleep in that aspect of unconsciousness until one awakes at the call of God or angels?

 

[BobRyan]

1 Thess 4:13-18​

1 Thess 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.​

​

John 11:​

11 This He said, and after this He *said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going so that I may awaken him from sleep.” 12 The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will come out of it.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about actual sleep.​

Which is why there is a judgment future and not one at the instant of death. (but the spirit of all humans does go to God at death)

Judgment future to Paul's day - as we see in Rom 2:13-16
Judgment future to Paul's day as we see in 2 Cor 5:10
A time comes near the end of the world when finally it can be said "The Hour of His judgment has come" Rev 14:7

Very good question.

1 Peter 1:13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, set your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ

the NT saints were not focused on their death - but rather on being united with Christ at his appearing.

Matt 22 - Jesus said that the only way God can claim to be the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob - is for there to be a future resurrection.

Why do you believe that death is like sleep in that aspect of unconsciousness until one awakes at the call of God or angels?

interesting question

 

[sandman]

Why do you believe that death is like sleep in that aspect of unconsciousness until one awakes at the call of God or angels?

Because that is how God uses the the word sleep (asleep) in the context....My only insight is through the eyes of God from the Word of God.

 

[BobRyan]

Because that is how God uses the the word sleep (asleep) in the context...

hmm... did He make a mistake? #11

 

[RileyG]

All the righteous and unrighteous will be resurrected at the end of time.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Because that is how God uses the the word sleep (asleep) in the context....My only insight is through the eyes of God from the Word of God.

Sleep and unconscious are different things, one dreams while sleeping.

 

[Dan Perez]

Sleep and unconscious are different things, one dreams while sleeping.

hmm... did He make a mistake

1 Cor 16 reads , For if the dead are NOT / OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , being raised , NOT / OV even Christ HAS BEEN RAISED .

and if Christ has NOT been raised , your faith is USLESS , and you are still in your SINS .

Read 1 Cor 15:16-22 .

dan p

 

[BobRyan]

1 Cor 16 reads , For if the dead are NOT / OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , being raised , NOT / OV even Christ HAS BEEN RAISED .

and if Christ has NOT been raised , your faith is USLESS , and you are still in your SINS .

Read 1 Cor 15:16-22 .

dan p

So then Christ has been raised. And it is said of "those those who have fallen asleep in Jesus " 1 Thess 4:13-18 -- that "they" are to be raised up from the grave - at Christ's appearing.

In the case of all humans --

Eccl 12:6 Remember your Creator before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the spring is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed; 7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Matt 10: 28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

And AFTER that we see the appearing of Christ in future -- so then in the case of the saints

1 Thess 4:13-18​

1 Thess 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.​

​

John 11:​

11 This He said, and after this He *said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going so that I may awaken him from sleep.” 12 The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will come out of it.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about actual sleep.​

None of the above. Which is why there is a judgment future and not one at the instant of death. (but the spirit of all humans does go to God at death)

Judgment future to Paul's day - as we see in Rom 2:13-16
Judgment future to Paul's day as we see in 2 Cor 5:10
A time comes near the end of the world when finally it can be said "The Hour of His judgment has come" Rev 14:7

Very good question.

1 Peter 1:13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, set your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ

the NT saints were not focused on their death - but rather on being united with Christ at his appearing.

Matt 22 - Jesus said that the only way God can claim to be the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob - is for there to be a future resurrection.

 

[Dan Perez]

In the case of all humans --

Eccl 12:6 Remember your Creator before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the spring is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed; 7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Matt 10: 28 And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

And AFTER that we see the appearing of Christ in future -- so then in the case of the saints

1 Thess 4:13-18​

1 Thess 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as indeed the rest of mankind do, who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, so also God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.​

​

John 11:​

11 This He said, and after this He *said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going so that I may awaken him from sleep.” 12 The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will come out of it.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about actual sleep.​

None of the above. Which is why there is a judgment future and not one at the instant of death. (but the spirit of all humans does go to God at death)

Judgment future to Paul's day - as we see in Rom 2:13-16
Judgment future to Paul's day as we see in 2 Cor 5:10
A time comes near the end of the world when finally it can be said "The Hour of His judgment has come" Rev 14:7

Very good question.
God can claim to be the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob - is for there to be a future resurrection.

When a person dies where do they go?

Heaven, or hell, perhaps purgatory as a preliminary to heaven?

So, why is there such a thing as resurrection?

There is a resurrection , because Christ was RAISED from the dead .

Second there is NO GREEK WORD for PURGURORY in the bible !!

Then in 1 Cor 15:32 , If the dead are NOT being raised , , WE SHOULD EAT , AND WE SHOULD DRINK , for tomorrow we die >


dan p

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Second there is NO GREEK WORD for PURGURORY in the bible !!

Never really thought that there was, is it important?

 

[Dan Perez]

Never really thought that there was, is it important?

Many would say it is IMPORTANT as it is not in the Greek text , would you agree or disagree ?

dan p