"Resurrection of the dead" through Reincarnation

cupid dave · Nov 29, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
　
Mat 17:3 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Your typo was almost Freudian in that Matt 17:3 actually tells us that Elijah was transforming Jesus back to the mere son of man who would later ask, "Eljah, Elijah, why...?"

What readers MUST do is ask themselves what was this Transfiguration on the mountain really about since the Greek word used was Metamorphosis.

Butterflies appear when the worm is transfigured in this same way that Elijah appeared:

Ps. 22:6 I am a worm, (tranformed from the Elijah), and no man, (much less man: [Job 25:6]); a reproach of men and despised of the people:

Fireinfolding · Nov 29, 2011

I'm just going to stay with Jesus words

Huram Abi · Nov 29, 2011

cupid dave said:
?

What is your point,... that the Truth is dependent upon some democratic response to sanction it?

Or, do you suggest that I discontinue posting my book report on the Bible because those with their own doctrines have not recanted and joined me?

I suggest you stop twisting scripture to suit your own agenda.

You claim to believe in a collective knowledge, but the collective knowledge is in stark contrast to what you claim.

There are reasons for this. Namely, that the Collective knows better than you. More eyes to see, more avenues pursued, ect...

Huram Abi · Nov 29, 2011

cupid dave said:
What readers MUST do is ask themselves what was this Transfiguration on the mountain really about...

Exodus 34

Fireinfolding · Nov 29, 2011

This one too, Christ being the righteousness of God

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah);

cupid dave · Nov 30, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
I'm just going to stay with Jesus words

Yes you will stike with your argument as will the other organized churches.

You will try to get around the ONLY straight and direct statement, by John the Baptist, that he was NOT the Elijah.

John 1:21
And they asked him, (John the Baptist), "What then?
Art thou Elias?

And he saith, I am not.

Art thou that prophet?
And he answered, No.

That is as it will be as the Jews begin to proselytize the Bible readers with this claim that Christis their Elijah.

This is how the Jews beome priest over all monotheism and Jerusalem again becomes the center of Christianity.

Brad Watson Miami 1 · Nov 30, 2011

Brad Watson said:
The above was written by Saul/Paul, who was not one of the original disciples and never spoke to Jesus son of Joseph before he was crucified. Jesus, after his crucifixion, did confront Saul on the road to Damascus and 'freaked him out'. Jesus changed Saul's name to Paul and the experience changed Saul from a persecutor of the first Messianic Jews, to Paul being the primary apostle to the Gentiles.

-----
Jesus never wrote anything down, or, should I say, not that we know of. (A couple scholars believe he wrote the Gospel of John.) 'Reincarnation' is a term that originated in the 19th century. Transmigration of the soul and metempsychosis are English terms that are much older. Many peoples in Jesus' time believed in a rebirth as human on Earth. The mystical Jews - later known as Kaballists - believed in reincarnation and believed the soul of Moses was reincarnated in each new generation. The Greek Pythagoreans taught it to those in their circle. Socrates may not have committed suicide over a point of politics and a strong devotion to the truth had he not been convinced of reincarnation. (And it appears he returned as Aristotle.)

The Mithras cult - practiced by many soldiers in the Roman Army - believed in reincarnation. The Egyptians certainly believed in it, as did those that practiced the ancient mysteries, i.e. Babylonians, Persians, Sumerians, Druids, and others.

The Early Church was split on the question of reincarnation. Clement and Origin of Alexandria taught it and taught that Jesus taught it. Here are three good books I can recommend that detail this: Reincarnation - The Missing Link In Christianity by Elizabeth Claire Prophet, The Phoenix Fire Mystery , and Reincarnation in Christianity by Geddes MacGregor.

It wasn't until (St.) Augustine came along in the 4th century, repented from his sinful ways, and then on his own, declared, "There are no previous lives to blame for one's ailments and low position in society, it's all Eve's fault" (paraphrased). Yes, it was Augustine who coined the term "original sin"; you won't find it in the Bible and rabbis don't teach it! You will find Bible references to "you reap what you sow".

Money was/is the guide for many doctrinal decisions throughout the centuries in all religions. The ancient Egyptian priests asked, "How can we get people to give us large amounts of money to mummify their corpse if they solely believe in the soul being eternal and receiving rebirth in a new body? No, we must fight that teaching! We'll promote the eternal soul and the afterlife in the same body. That way, we can charge exurberent prices for preserving the dead body and its elaborate burial" (anecdotal). This misguided tradition was then passed on to the Israelites who passed it on to the Christians.

The Christ returning and the synchronized "resurrection of the dead" is correct. But Paul's explanation of it is flawed!

---INCOMPLETE---

Everyone,

A good conversation! I'll respond to some of those replies later. How about replying directly to what I wrote (which I need to complete) and to Seal #7: Reincarnation Theory & its 21 Principles...

Seal #7

Reincarnaion heory & its 21 Principles includes 10 ways to track a soul + scientific laws including energy, information, & consciousness cant be destroyed, only transferred.
Life (like all matter & energy) is both waves & particles. Natural selection/survival of the fittest assures that human souls that help the global system will return as human.
Luck 100 = karma 4 + modesty 1 × [desire 4 + actions 4 + ability 4 + contribution 4 + blessings 4]
George Washington → Robert E. Lee → Eisenhower, FDR → Barack Obama,
Abigail Adams → Mary Lincoln → Marilyn Monroe → Janet Jackson58,
Bernard de Clairvaux → Leonardo Fibonacci → Da Vinci → Galileo → Ben21 Franklin → Lincoln → Einstein →

- Brad Watson, Miami
teacher

Huram Abi · Nov 30, 2011

cupid dave said:
That is as it will be as the Jews begin to proselytize...

You don't know the Jewish people very well.

Huram Abi · Nov 30, 2011

Brad Watson said:
Everyone,

A good conversation! I'll respond to some of those replies later. How about replying directly to what I wrote (which I need to complete) and to Seal #7: Reincarnation Theory & its 21 Principles...

- Brad Watson, Miami
teacher

Can you condense it down to one or two points you are trying to make?

Fireinfolding · Nov 30, 2011

cupid dave said:
Yes you will stike with your argument as will the other organized churches.

You will try to get around the ONLY straight and direct statement, by John the Baptist, that he was NOT the Elijah.

John 1:21
And they asked him, (John the Baptist), "What then?
Art thou Elias?

And he saith, I am not.

Art thou that prophet?
And he answered, No.

Yes I believe Jesus, and no man accepts his testimony either, I believe even John said that

I already showed the law having A SHADOW and NOT THE VERY IMAGE of things, PROPHESIED UNTIL John (thats his name). Thus Johns name IS John (as the Angel stated) but would go forth in the spirit and power of Elijah being the Elijah FOR TO COME even as Jesus said. For the law and the prophets having a shadow of the good things TO COME, prophesied UNTIL JOHN.

And Jesus said, He was the Elias for TO COME

I just believe Jesus. You are just seeing John denying he is Elijah (as if he was reincarnated, or an old prophet coming who is raised again) or as if his name is Elijah, it isnt, its John, however you are also choosing to void the words of Jesus Christ to the contrary (He said John IS the Elias for to come).

That is as it will be as the Jews begin to proselytize the Bible readers with this claim that Christis their Elijah.

This is how the Jews beome priest over all monotheism and Jerusalem again becomes the center of Christianity.

No comprehension of what you just said (its ok I dont want to know)

cupid dave · Nov 30, 2011

Huram Abi said:
I suggest you stop twisting scripture to suit your own agenda.

You claim to believe in a collective knowledge, but the collective knowledge is in stark contrast to what you claim.

There are reasons for this. Namely, that the Collective knows better than you. More eyes to see, more avenues pursued, ect...

My suggestion to you is to let Jewish people learn about (1) the Jewish Tradition of the Seven Miracles (which Jew for centuries before 32AD believed would identify The Elijah when he returned).

Then admit that the Jews still set out a SPECIAL fifth wine cup on the Paaover table awaiting the Elijah's return so that he could teach whether they ALL ought drink from it or discard it at the end of Passover.

Add these Jewish traditions to the comparison of the OT acts and behaviors of Elijah in 800BC with what Christ did and said in 32AD, and be honest.... not defensive nor offended.

Huram Abi · Nov 30, 2011

cupid dave said:
Yes you will stike with your argument as will the other organized churches.

You will try to get around the ONLY straight and direct statement, by John the Baptist, that he was NOT the Elijah.

.

And you will try to get around the straight and direct statement by Jesus and Gabriel that John WAS Elijah.

Brad Watson Miami 1 · Nov 30, 2011

Cupid Dave & Huram Abi,

Let's stay on topic. Are you open-minded to reincarnation? Have you thought about it much? Have you read any books on it? Can you relate scientific principles to it as well as religious and historic information?

- Brad

cupid dave · Nov 30, 2011

Fireinfolding said:
Yes I believe Jesus, and no man accepts his testimony either, I believe even John said that

I already showed the law having A SHADOW and NOT THE VERY IMAGE of things, PROPHESIED UNTIL John (thats his name). Thus Johns name IS John (as the Angel stated) but would go forth in the spirit and power of Elijah being the Elijah FOR TO COME even as Jesus said. For the law and the prophets having a shadow of the good things TO COME, prophesied UNTIL JOHN.

And Jesus said, He was the Elias for TO COME

I just believe Jesus. You are just seeing John denying he is Elijah (as if he was reincarnated, or an old prophet coming who is raised again) or as if his name is Elijah, it isnt, its John, however you are also choosing to void the words of Jesus Christ to the contrary (He said John IS the Elias for to come).

No comprehension of what you just said (its ok I dont want to know)

I said John is the only one who directly said "No, I am NOT the Elijah."

Do you say John was too stupid to know who he was, or that he lied?

You misread and misinterpret every other verse that you use to support your error.

Fireinfolding · Nov 30, 2011

cupid dave said:
My suggestion to you is to let Jewish people learn about (1) the Jewish Tradition of the Seven Miracles (which Jew for centuries before 32AD believed would identify The Elijah when he returned).

Then admit that the Jews still set out a SPECIAL fifth wine cup on the Paaover table awaiting the Elijah's return so that he could teach whether they ALL ought drink from it or discard it at the end of Passover.

Add these Jewish traditions to the comparison of the OT acts and behaviors of Elijah in 800BC with what Christ did and said in 32AD, and be honest.... not defensive nor offended.

Jesus own disciples ask him if he would command them to send fire from heaven upon them and he turned and rebuked them telling them they knew not what spirit they were of

So going forth in the Spirit of Elijah (as they perceived doing so) was a bit off wouldnt you say?

Huram Abi · Nov 30, 2011

cupid dave said:
My suggestion to you is to let Jewish people learn about (1) the Jewish Tradition of the Seven Miracles (which Jew for centuries before 32AD believed would identify The Elijah when he returned).

Then admit that the Jews still set out a SPECIAL fifth wine cup on the Paaover table awaiting the Elijah's return so that he could teach whether they ALL ought drink from it or discard it at the end of Passover.

We've been over this.

I advocate that they know what these 7 miracles are.

I can list them. Can you?

We've also discussed at great length the history and tradition of the fifth cup. I can link you to it if you've forgotten. Why are you pretending that I don't know about the fifth sedar cup? I've had to clarify the details of it to you numerously.

Huram Abi · Nov 30, 2011

Brad Watson said:
Cupid Dave & Huram Abi,

Let's stay on topic. Are you open-minded to reincarnation? Have you thought about it much? Have you read any books on it? Can you relate scientific principles to it as well as religious and historic information?

- Brad

Sorry, just read this.

No, I am not open minded to reincarnation beyond energy transfer ie: energy neither created nor destroyed.

I am very open minded to generational memory as we see in elephants, however.

Fireinfolding · Nov 30, 2011

cupid dave said:
I said John is the only one who directly said "No, I am NOT the Elijah."

Do you say John was too stupid to know who he was, or that he lied?

You misread and misinterpret every other verse that you use to support your error.

You wrote

John 1:21
And they asked him, (John the Baptist), "What then?
Art thou Elias?

And he saith, I am not.

Art thou that prophet?
And he answered, No.

No, I just believe Jesus, he was the Elisa for to come, should I rather believe that Jesus (whose testimony is greater then John's) is stupid?

Fireinfolding · Nov 30, 2011

Still looking at these, I'll drive you's crazy but Its not like John could reccognize Jesus without a sign as he himself admits

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Then their questioning John here...

John 1:22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

Bear witness of yourself (in other words) he offers a valid witness

John 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God

Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight

Isaiah was his witness, and the Lord His other witness (but not his own witness) as even the testimony of two men are valid, likewise the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Jesus here (out of which he read)

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias And when he had opened the book, found the place where it was written

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Because as John bear him record (so likewise the prophet Isaiah) but likewise the Father

Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Luke 4:20 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears

Then adds...

Luke 4:21 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Of John the baptist it says the same....

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

However, even though Isaiah bore witness of Him and he used the words of the prophet

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

And likewise Jesus says...

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
　

Mat 17:3 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Mat 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

Whereas prior to Jesus picking up the book of Isaiah and reading from it concerning the acceptable year and the Spirit of God being upon him to preach the same, John says...

John 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;

John 1:2 7 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him

Which would read...

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Luke 4:20 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Luke 4:24 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed .Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist

Shows elsewhere of the heavens being shut up as they were opened up to Jesus at the baptism of John and elsewhere how they rejected the baptism of John against themselves.

Ok Im done (I think)

Brad Watson Miami 1 · Dec 7, 2011

Huram Abi said:
No, I am not open minded to reincarnation beyond energy transfer ie: energy neither created nor destroyed. I am very open minded to generational memory as we see in elephants, however.

Huram Abi,

Why didn't you just say you're "not open-minded to reincarnation" in your first reply and leave it at that?! People who aren't open-minded rarely learn anything new.

The law of conservation of energy is just the beginning of the science behind Seal #7: Reincarnation Theory & its 21 Principles. The law of conservation of consciousness states that consciousness can't be either created nor destroyed, although it can be transferred. The law of conservation of information states that information can be created, but not destroyed, although it can be transferred.

All energy and matter is both wave and particles. Our eternal life is both particles (this one life is a 'particle') and a wave.

- Brad Watson, Miami
Albert Einstein reincarnated

"Resurrection of the dead" through Reincarnation

cupid dave

Guest

Well-Known Member

Huram Abi

Guest

Huram Abi

Guest

Well-Known Member

cupid dave

Guest

Active Member

Huram Abi

Guest

Huram Abi

Guest

Well-Known Member

cupid dave

Guest

Huram Abi

Guest

Active Member

cupid dave

Guest

Well-Known Member

Huram Abi

Guest

Huram Abi

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency