Response from nirotu

[satay]

Hello nirotu,

[/color]

Are you sure it is chapter 16 that you are talking about? Chapter 16 talks about the separation of divine and un-divine nature.



Do you believe in what chapter 16 talks about? Or do you just believe part of this chapter?



Perhaps you can explain to me why these so called scholars think that way about Krishna. Again, are these people considered religious scholars in India?



Did you think that I was challenging their intellect? Do you think that the ideology of Gita is affected in any way by the comments made by these so called scholars or even by you and me?



“Hey Ram”.
Do you think that Mahatma Gandhi died in the ignorance of GOD (as you explained it earlier about dying in ignorance)?



So, you would agree with the writings of “other” scholars and not Christian scholars. Okay, I got you.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that Prabhupada hoisted personal dogma upon revealed truth in Gita?

You quoted Reagan and Augustine earlier. I did a little search on Reagan and found this web site http://www.learnthebible.org/baptist_church_knoxville.htm

Now, Do you think that Reagan is an evangelist? Is he a scholar of some sort? Is he a religious scholar of some sort?

Would you consider him e.g. like the Gandhi that you quoted from or the prabhupada of Christianity?

St. Augustine said the following:
"The whole canon of the Scriptures, however, in which we say that consideration is to be applied, is contained in these books: the five of Moses . . . and one book of Joshua [Son of] Nave, one of Judges; one little book which is called Ruth . . . then the four of Kingdoms, and the two of Paralipomenon . . . . [T]here are also others too, of a different order . . . such as Job and Tobit and Esther and Judith and the two books of Maccabees, and the two of Esdras . . . . Then there are the Prophets, in which there is one book of the Psalms of David, and three of Solomon. . . . But as to those two books, one of which is entitled Wisdom and the other of which is entitled Ecclesiasticus and which are called `of Solomon' because of a certain similarity to his books, it is held most certainly that they were written by Jesus Sirach. They must, however, be accounted among the prophetic books, because of the authority which is deservedly accredited to them" (Christian Instruction 2:8:13 [A.D. 397]).

Now, my question is first of all: Do you consider St. Augustine a scholar of Christianity? If No, then, why not? Especially because you quoted from him before.

If yes, then Do you think that Reagan is a better scholar and has authority over St. Augustine?

Secondly, do you agree with St. Augustine with the part that I bolded there in quotes?



Nitzsche is not the only scholar that thought that the historical Christ was a very different man from the Christ of Christian mythology. He is just the most famous of them all. Does it matter to you that he didn’t believe in God be it Christian or Hindu version?



In other words, you are not sure if Hell as depicted in the bible is a real literal place or a metaphor. But you choose to think that it is a metaphor. Am I correct in your understanding of “Hell” then?

How does “sacrifice” of Jesus on the cross “removes the ignorance from our crusted shell self conceited ego?” What makes “his” sacrifice (and his alone) “remove” my ego for example?



What is this? A version of pascal’s wager to be used on Hindus or Buddhists or those who believe in eternal life?

Anyway, my questions are regarding the last part of your quote. What if the Christian is right? Earlier you said that Jesus came to remove the veil of ignorance. Going by that metaphor, what does a non-Christian “Find it too late to realize”? What is that “it” and how does it affect a non-christian if there is no literal punishment so to speak. Dying in the veil of ignorance what does that mean? What are the consequences of dying in the veil of ignorance?



Save myself from what? From the veil of ignorance? More questions for you:

Do you think that “jesus” alone is the one that can remove the veil of ignorance?

Do you think that Gandhi and all the other Indian scholars you quoted died in the veil of ignorance?

If hell as preached by Paul is not a literal place then what are the consequences of dying in the veil of ignorance?



Jesus also said that “Kingdom of God is within” What does he mean here when he says that? Do you know?



Let’s stick with the things that you think you do know. Your understanding of Hindu or Buddhist views does not matter at this point of the discussion.



Not sure why you inserted this here.

coolbodhi

Interesting questions bodhi.

satay

 

[selwyn]

Oooh, take some cool drinks man.

Oh man. I am pretty cool in here. Hope everything is fine at your end too!!! My questioning up here may be intense and hot. But that does not mean that I am hot and burning up here. Back to some questioning?

Let me tell you this: None of the threads like has been started by any Hindu. This thread was started by nirotu whining about his ousting at Hindunet or whatever and then continuing on with some of his previous discussions he had with Hindus over there. I am not here to debate or belittle anybody, and I have never even started any thread with such a motive, show me a proof.

Man. Are you sure that you are not in here to debate or belittle anybody? Man. You must have a come a long way indeed if that is the case indeed. But atleast I know that you said once when I asked you that you were in here for debates. And belittling - Oh man, would you go back and read your own posts in post history? Oh wait a minute. Read your following quote please.

Nor do I think other Hindus started some threads challenging somebody to a debate or whatever you seem to accuse- it just happens in the middle of some thread where you childishly make some comments without any knowledge of what you are talking about.

Are you the same guy who claims in here that nobody knows what I know or what I don't know? And are you the same one who told in here that you don't belittle people in here?

On the other hand, this is a grey area indeed with you guys. Some guys in another thread are trying to portray Sefroth as a hindu. Now I don't know what you call him and I know that you have asked at times not to consider him as a hindu in here with respect to his view points. That said, Sefroth has infact started many threads as well as challenged people in here for debates. But don't you guys really feel proud about incoherent posts and the incoherence of hinduism? so probably you should be proud about these incoherent claims!!!!!

It will just happen that somebody like you will interject into all threads and post some "contradictions" and quoting from all posts made since Jesus was born. I do not even clearly remember all that I write and say. I am not a full time surfer and dont have the time to remember all earlier posts and what I said earlier.

Then please try to remember. And it is not so difficult. If you go to your profile, there is a link for looking at all the posts you wrote in here. Neither am I a full time surfer. But isn't it important that you are self-consistent in your claims? And don't you think that it is a cheap excuse from your side of now disowning your previous claims here about hinduism saying that you don't remember what you said and did in here in the name of hinduism. Man. There are people in here coming with serious questions. And how on earth could you even think blabbering some non-sense according to the mood of your day in the name of hinduism only to later disown your own statements? And isn't that why that I have been pointing out that you guys often end up self-contradictory against your own claims?

In any discussion, the context of the thread must be used - quoting all previous threads is a nonsense and not acceptable.

Man. For your information, when I quote you or anyone else, I give a reference most of the times as much as possible for you guys to go to that reference and read at the non-sense that you claimed there with the context so that you would not come back here and claim non-sensically that it is out of context. But if you still do that claim after all that especially after trying to disown your own statements that you made in here blaming poor memory, what else could one say here? And do you really think that what you are doing now in here (disowning your claims in the name of poor memory) is acceptable in any sense?

Our learning constantly imrproves, the more we debate or discuss on Hindu forums.

Are you the same one who claimed in here that you are not in for debates. Now I know that you will say that you are talking about only hindu forums. Let me ask you something once again. Didn't you claim that you are in here for debates at some point in here? I hope that you will be honest. Or could it be that even honesty changes with time along with debating

Our viewpoints dont need to reamin the same - Hindus are not stagnant in their beleifs like you have memorized your bible.

Do you really think that someone after knowing the truth can wander changing his/her beliefs? Isn't it that wandering over belief systems happens until you don't know the truth?

We do debate and discuss on many forums, where we often update our knowledge on Hinduism and sometimes we can change our opinions on certain matters.

And there you go. This is why I claim that you are self-contradictory. Again you claim that you do debate in many forums after just stating that you are not in here for debates. Did you already forget what you wrote in the first few lines of your post in here?

If we run into a better debator and if we are impressed with his logic, we tend to adopt his views, rather than blindly say "You may have won but I still dont care".

Oh! Really? Man. All that you have done here is to prove that you are in here mainly for debates contradictory to your claims. At the other end, do you remember me asking you once if you really think that you can find God just by debating and winning in debates? Man. Life is more than just debating and please don't minimize the issue of knowing God to simple debating before a computer screen not even knowing the person to whom you are talking to.

That is why I accepted Sudarshan's challenge, because it gives me a chance to improve my own knowledge and its limitations, not that I want to "massacre" anybody.

Oh! Could it be that only he wants to "massacre" you?

Thus most Hindus are always thought evolving, infact everyday. We are not dummies to memorize scripture and quote long passages for consistancy each time.

Oh. Do you mean to say that you guys are only used to chat mantras and do all the so called yogas and tantras and what not without knowing the meaning of them? No wonder, consistency is a mystery to you.

The scripture remains the same, but interpretations vary between many schools just like in Christianity, and if I somebody has a more reasonable interpretation than my own, I change my views.

Sorry. One of your friends here claimed that even your scripture is incoherent. You have to prove him wrong or atleast accept that he is wrong before coming and making this claim in here. You cannot claim in here to me at one end that he is right and claim at the other end to him that he is wrong.The other name for such a claim is self-contradiction.

Sticking to ones beleifs even when you know it is wrong, is called superstition and close mindedness.

Sorry, that is your misunderstanding. Who told you that Christians in here are sticking to their beliefs knowing that it is wrong? That is a gross misunderstanding on your part.

If somebody can prove to me all religions are false, I will denounce all of them. Man, who told you our beleifs cant change over discussions? Dont you ever think at all?

And man. Who told you that beliefs must always change over discussions? Don't you ever think at all? And who told you that changing beliefs just based on discussions is always the right thing to do?

Nobody wants a discussion with you, who does not answer any questions.

The question is if any of you and your friends ever wanted to be consistent without self-contradicting yourselves? What is the guarantee that after I start answering your questions you will not claim later out here that you never remembered asking such questions to begin with? After all, aren't you the one who said here and imply strongly that you don't remember what you write in here and never care to take responisbility for the older claims you make in here as you might have changed beliefs?

The issue is with your taunt by posting into any discussions started by others. Nobody really knows what you know or know not yet - because you have hardly opened your mouth so far - except finding some conflicts between Hindu posters.

Wow. So atlast you admit in here that you don't know what I know and what I don't know. Right? So were you lying deliberately in many of your earlier posts when you claimed that I did not know anything about this and that? Or could it be that you have recently changed your beliefs about my knowledge after going through lot of so called "debates and discussions" in here?

The conflicts happen because

1. Different Hindus belong to different schools and may not share common opinions in all areas.

Didn't I tell you several times that the bigger issue is you contradicting and disowning your own claims in here?

2. Each Hindu is thought evolving - he thinks and his own beleifs can vary over time in reaction to an improved learning, improved unlearning, personal expereicnes and other debates.

Contrary to your claims in here, hindus seem to imply that they are devolving in here atleast as much as their posts reflect in here - so much anger, frustration, belittling and the worst of all, they seem to be getting so confused in here that they even have forgotten their very own claims up here ending up claiming that it is okay to be incoherent and self-contradictory with respect to hinduism!!!! Man. What is wrong?

Stagnant beleifs and unwillingness to explore the truth of it, and make corrections is the hallmark of dogmatic religions and beleifs.

Wandering beliefs and unwillingness to accept the truth even when they are exposed to it - Are these, the hallmark of people who follow religions that are partially true, always speculative, self-contradictory and highly incoherent?

 

[Ram]

Oh man. I am pretty cool in here. Hope everything is fine at your end too!!! My questioning up here may be intense and hot. But that does not mean that I am hot and burning up here. Back to some questioning?

But that is all you know. Anyway it is a good timepass for me. As Proud Hindu said, it is quite humorous and your posts have good entertainment value. And if any Christians are considering to be apostates, you will show them the exit door fast by your great defences.

Man. Are you sure that you are not in here to debate or belittle anybody? Man. You must have a come a long way indeed if that is the case indeed. But atleast I know that you said once when I asked you that you were in here for debates. And belittling - Oh man, would you go back and read your own posts in post history? Oh wait a minute. Read your following quote please.

You mean rebutting you in the past. But, that is what you might get if you poke your nose into things you do not know. Had you asked questions and also answered questions thrown at you, your views might have been given due respect. I respect this nirotu even when he disagrees considerably because he has many rational points and is here for a sincere discussion. Infact I liked his explanation of "Christ Cosciousness" in Hindu saints, and that is interesting to hear from a Christian.

But I can differentiate between one who is interested in a discussion or somebody who is just for some mischief. If it is for fun, it could be much more positive than to put down anything you dont agree with.

Are you the same guy who claims in here that nobody knows what I know or what I don't know? And are you the same one who told in here that you don't belittle people in here?

While it is true that we honestly do not know what you know, but it is natural to assume that you know nothing when you have not answered anything yet, and even remarked that you are not here to answer either. You might know the answers to all questions, but if you dont write them in your answer sheets, your professor would give you a big ZERO. It is reasonable to assume that you know the bible, but you know nothing to talk about Hinduism. With such a guy, all will be appreciated are honest questions, neither discussions or debates.

On the other hand, this is a grey area indeed with you guys. Some guys in another thread are trying to portray Sefroth as a hindu. Now I don't know what you call him and I know that you have asked at times not to consider him as a hindu in here with respect to his view points. That said, Sefroth has infact started many threads as well as challenged people in here for debates. But don't you guys really feel proud about incoherent posts and the incoherence of hinduism? so probably you should be proud about these incoherent claims!!!!!

I cant speak for Seffroth. He has not claimed to be a Hindu and I respect his own words. If he has challenged, it is his right- this is a debate and discussion forum. If you want accept it, else run away. Where have I started anything where I have issued a challenege? Perhaps you do not know the difference between four types of debates/discussions? There are significant differences between a polemic and a dialogue. A true polemic is probably against the rules of this forum except between two non christian religions, as it amounts to promotion of religion.

Then please try to remember. And it is not so difficult. If you go to your profile, there is a link for looking at all the posts you wrote in here. Neither am I a full time surfer. But isn't it important that you are self-consistent in your claims? And don't you think that it is a cheap excuse from your side of now disowning your previous claims here about hinduism saying that you don't remember what you said and did in here in the name of hinduism. Man. There are people in here coming with serious questions. And how on earth could you even think blabbering some non-sense according to the mood of your day in the name of hinduism only to later disown your own statements? And isn't that why that I have been pointing out that you guys often end up self-contradictory against your own claims?

Actually I care least for these words. I do change my opinions now and then. And I can adapt my views. Even now, I have picked up some of the words of nirotu, and do not dismiss just because he was a christian. I am not taught to simply decry anything just because it is against my views. We are humans, we need to understand which is more correct if it can be logically proven. Would you still beleive in flat earth theory? Or still believe in the Neils Bohrs atomic model. Whenever newer theories we discard the older ones as invalid. That is my approach to philosophy as well. If something does not stand logic, it has secondary importance in my beleifs. Infact, I do not beleive in fary tales - not even the fairy tales found in Hinduism. I am attracted to Hinduism for its philosophical depth, nothing more. I dont care for books like bible and quran, because they impose certain fairy tales and also scare me saying that I will land in hell if I dont beleive them.

Man. For your information, when I quote you or anyone else, I give a reference most of the times as much as possible for you guys to go to that reference and read at the non-sense that you claimed there with the context so that you would not come back here and claim non-sensically that it is out of context. But if you still do that claim after all that especially after trying to disown your own statements that you made in here blaming poor memory, what else could one say here? And do you really think that what you are doing now in here (disowning your claims in the name of poor memory) is acceptable in any sense?

It is not a question of poor memory. It is because not much time is spent here. I am not passionate about a discussion with you, because you have no knowledge of Hinduism. Of course, I do debate with vigour on some Hindu forums. Anyone can nitpick here and there, but you have absolutely nothing to enter a discussion. You have not answered a single question so far? You revel in "contradictions" and if you answer some of the questions, you know what, you will end up doing the same thing.

Are you the same one who claimed in here that you are not in for debates. Now I know that you will say that you are talking about only hindu forums. Let me ask you something once again. Didn't you claim that you are in here for debates at some point in here? I hope that you will be honest. Or could it be that even honesty changes with time along with debating.

Hindu Dharma has to be naturally a little self contradictory in the strict sense as viewed from a Christian view point. That is because Hinduism does not require you arrive at the truth in one attempt. You do have many opportunities to arrive the real truth. Buddha Dharma also says the same thing. You do not commit one sin and get eternally banished into fire pit. Your mindset has hardly cleared from here. No Hindu beleives that Christianity is correct, but neither as incorrect. We do believe that any person
who has faith in God in some way, or practices any religion that teaches good ethics and morals, will eventually lead him to the truth of Sanatana Dharma. Since we have many beleifs within Sanata Dharma, again the natural law that follows that a person will always finally land the correct faith within Sanatana DHarma. Just landing in a faith in not sufficient either. Ultimately, the goal in Hindu Dharma is go beyond mere faith into actual enlightenement and God seek, it is not about mere beleif in some stories.

It is only in this respect, other religions are considered valid. It has taken several months for you to even digest this small piece of knowledge. But what surprises me more, is Christianity with its one chance of finding the truth, is having hundreds of beleif systems with some of them claiming to be unqiue and only valid truth. This is a much bigger self contradcition than Hinduism. How can one bible be interpreted so differently by the Catholics, the Orthodox, the Christian Spiritst, the Unitarians, the Baptists, the JW, The Mormons etc. Dont you see that Christianity is the most self contradicting religion in the world?

 

[Ram]

Do you really think that someone after knowing the truth can wander changing his/her beliefs? Isn't it that wandering over belief systems happens until you don't know the truth?

What do you mean by knowing the truth? By blindly beleiving in something you assume to be the truth does not make it so. It is like a blindman making a statement he sees the Sun. You blindly beleive some fairy tale is actually fully literal. and now making a claim that you know the truth. What can be more laughable than that?

And there you go. This is why I claim that you are self-contradictory. Again you claim that you do debate in many forums after just stating that you are not in here for debates. Did you already forget what you wrote in the first few lines of your post in here?

I said I am not on CF for debate, and atleast not with people like you. You really do not even know what this term stands for. It does not mean I dont debate elsewhere, of course I do debate on other forums, and I even have my own forums where we have discussions without any rules.(except name calling being disallowed)

Oh! Really? Man. All that you have done here is to prove that you are in here mainly for debates contradictory to your claims. At the other end, do you remember me asking you once if you really think that you can find God just by debating and winning in debates? Man. Life is more than just debating and please don't minimize the issue of knowing God to simple debating before a computer screen not even knowing the person to whom you are talking to.

I do not change my way of life by debates. But there are certain things you do not know or have limited knowledge about. Certainly, I imbibe from people I talk to. These are nothing but childish statements. I gain even by talking to Christians and non Hindus - but so far you are the only person who has never given me anything to learn. The only thing I have been able to learnt from you is that Christianity might be illogical.

Oh. Do you mean to say that you guys are only used to chat mantras and do all the so called yogas and tantras and what not without knowing the meaning of them? No wonder, consistency is a mystery to you.

I think you do not even understand what a mantra is - Do you really know the differenes between a shloka, a mantra, yoga, tantra, bhajan etc. What are you ranting here?

Sorry. One of your friends here claimed that even your scripture is incoherent. You have to prove him wrong or atleast accept that he is wrong before coming and making this claim in here. You cannot claim in here to me at one end that he is right and claim at the other end to him that he is wrong.The other name for such a claim is self-contradiction.

He was honest in claiming so - because of discrepencies creeping in scriptures due to passage of time. Why, there are many contradictions in the bible, though it may not be visible to people who beleive each word is inspired by God. Bible was written by men, not even by Jesus.

Sorry, that is your misunderstanding. Who told you that Christians in here are sticking to their beliefs knowing that it is wrong? That is a gross misunderstanding on your part.

These are the problems of dogmatic schools, and they will blindly believe anything and everything just based on blind faith. Why would a Christian need to beleive he is 100% right...? Amusing.

Let me state my own reasons why Christianity cannot be the "only truth".

1. The bible starts with the story of Adam and Eve, which is actually found in the Hindu puranas. IN the Hindu puranas, it is found as an insignificant thing along with rich philosophy and other stories, while this story takes centre stage in the bible.

2. There is no guarantee that there existed a person called Jesus. It is not even agreed upon by all historians. There is a decent chance given the fact that there is a religion called Christianity and there must have been some person behind it.

3. Even if we asume, the above there is nothing to prove that Jesus was God or a son of God, except from within the bible. The bible was not written by Jesus himself and composed at a later time. So that brings us to beleive in several more people, and beleive their words. Even if one of them were not honest enough, bible looses its infallibility. The four reseruction accounts of Mathew, Luke, John are all mutually contradictory.


4. Even if Jesus was the son of God he claimed to be, Hindus do not find that objectionable because our religions also accepts that concept. His resseruction story is debatable so much that, even many Christians do not beleive in his physical resseruction, leave alone the rest of the world.

5. Even if he resseucted, there is nothing to prove that he has saved everybody else by mere faith in his resseruction story. There are many stories of Hindu Yogis who have gone into samadhi well past 41 days, and yet returned back to life. Hindus do not really find anything amazing with this reserruction either.

6. The story of Jesus looks like nothing original. It has a lot of parallels to many other fiction or historical characters, including Krishna. One striking point I have noticed is that Jesus grew up in the place called Maturea( read Gospel of Infancy) and Krishna grew up in a place called Matura. Does not look to be a mere coincidence to me given other factors. Also there are many other parallels with pagan traditions.

7. Most of the characters in the Old Testament can be easily traced to Hindu mythology. Abrahamh, Sara, Issac are all found in Hindu mythology under the names Brahma, Saraswati, Isa etc. Virtually everything is connectable if you choose to do your homework.

8. If bible is the true word of God, it should be free from all errors, but it bounds in scientific errors, logical contradictions, internal inconsistancies, what not.

For a sample list of contradictions, read
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

Many of the liberal wings of Chritianity have divorced from the dogma for these very reasons, and many christians no longer read the bible literally as it has a good potential for churning out atheists. There are many more bsurdities, but of course you are always free to beleive that you have got the 100% truth, based on mere assumptions and blind faith.

9. As an Indian, I have seen Christianity failing to make any impression in ndia and biting the dust in the face of Hinduism. Even with 400 years of British rule, all attempts by force, deciet, persuasion and coersion have yielded about 2% of christians in India.

That speaks how Adharmic religions can withstand the might of Dharmic traditions. Wherever there are well established Dharmic religions Abrahamic religions have scored a near zero. If at all some people will accept Christianity in these countries, it will be some uneducated and poor people who will readily buy any fairy tale in exchange for bread and butter.

Christianity is a major religion in the world not because of its logic or truth, but force, persuasion, coersion, deciet were all used in preaching the gospel (not generalizing though but this is true of India) and even then it has worked only in places where there were no Dharma traditions, poor people, illiterate people etc etc. If you think it is word of God, why not try and make most Hindus or Buddhist into Christians in India and East Asia countires?

For that matter, Christianity is loosing hold even in America and Europe where forms of Hinduism, Buddhism, New Age religions are on the rise.



Of course, I have many more reasons that I know for sure I am right about my assumption, but I stop here, because I know what your response will be - avoiding questions and my own comments and throwing up something else instead.


For somebody like me, Christianity and Islam will never appeal because they are closed idealogies and fully dogmatic and just use scare tactics. Even in Hinduism, I belonged to such a slightly dogmatic denomination, from which I am divorced for these reasons. As a human being, I have the right to investigate and choose my beleifs. Any religion that chokes this cannot be my beleif. Hence I currently belong to no demonination even in Hinduism, my beleifs are shaped by my reading all interpretations of scripture ( rather than blindly beliving only mine is true), examining all scriptures ( instead of 2-3 used by some schools above all), logical reasoning, personal testimonies and experiences etc. Only Dharmic traditions give this freedom. I am certainly a Vaishnavite, but I am not denominational.

I cannot belong to a system which needs to me to beleive in some myths as realities (like Adam and Eve stories and that too copied from Hindu scripture) and so I am always amused whenere you claim you have the truth.

 

[selwyn]

But that is all you know. Anyway it is a good timepass for me. As Proud Hindu said, it is quite humorous and your posts have good entertainment value. And if any Christians are considering to be apostates, you will show them the exit door fast by your great defences.

Where did you get the idea that I have started defending against you in here. At this point, where is the need for defense to begin with when there is nothing that is able to stand against the truth of Christianity? And as I will point out later, aren't you the one struggling to defend in here; when you yourself has sheepishly admitted in here that hinduism infact is self contradictory naturally, where is the need for any defense of Christian faith against something which is already accepted as self contradictory and falling apart on its own?And do you really think that it matters to the truth if few guys in here claim to reject it based on their own illogical whims and fancies?

You mean rebutting you in the past. But, that is what you might get if you poke your nose into things you do not know.

After claiming here that you hardly know what I know or I don't know isn't it ironical that you state something so illogical as you have stated above based on your mere assumptions? But all that you ended up proving by making that statement is that infact you do belittle people in here and that too based on your own assumptions and illusions without knowing anything about them.

Had you asked questions and also answered questions thrown at you, your views might have been given due respect. I respect this nirotu even when he disagrees considerably because he has many rational points and is here for a sincere discussion. Infact I liked his explanation of "Christ Cosciousness" in Hindu saints, and that is interesting to hear from a Christian.

What kind of answers did you guys ever want in here? Did you guys want me to lie like you guys have been doing around in here in the name of truth and then say that you forgot what you said?

But I can differentiate between one who is interested in a discussion or somebody who is just for some mischief. If it is for fun, it could be much more positive than to put down anything you dont agree with.

Oh man. Are n't you the one who claims in here that you are in here for entertainment sometimes?

While it is true that we honestly do not know what you know, but it is natural to assume that you know nothing when you have not answered anything yet, and even remarked that you are not here to answer either.

Could you tell me where I have remarked that I am not here to answer at all? Didn't I clearly state that I decide on whom to answer and when to answer and how to answer.

You might know the answers to all questions, but if you dont write them in your answer sheets, your professor would give you a big ZERO.

Man. By the way, who made you my professor in here?

It is reasonable to assume that you know the bible, but you know nothing to talk about Hinduism. With such a guy, all will be appreciated are honest questions, neither discussions or debates.

Man. I had been telling you so many times in here that I am not in here to debate with you. How many times will you make this same mistake again and again continue with this assumption that I am in here for debate with you? Do you really understand English? At the other end is your open declaration now that all that you had been talking about me are nothing more than asssumptions. I thought that you were only speculating things about your so called God. Now that you have admitted this, man - you seem to be really confused indeed. I feel sorry for your state of mind based on assumptions, presumptions and speculations.

I cant speak for Seffroth.

Well. That can be understood here. When you are struggling here at one end to sheepishly defend unsuccessfully your own self contradictory claims and earlier assumptions and presumptions by telling that you forgot those words or that you changed your opinions recently, how can anyone expect you to even speak for some other guy in here?

He has not claimed to be a Hindu and I respect his own words. If he has challenged, it is his right- this is a debate and discussion forum. If you want accept it, else run away.

Man. Some of your hindu friends have infact admitted in here considering him as a hindu and often tend to strongly defend his viewpoints as hinduic view points (which in itself is incoherent and a silly attempt). And that is why I mentioned that this is a grey area.And is that any surprising in here? Is there anything that is clear or true about hinduism?!!!!!

Where have I started anything where I have issued a challenege?

For your information, you have done that in here later in the continuity of the post of yours against your own question in here? Is that another demonstration of your incoherent claims?

Perhaps you do not know the difference between four types of debates/discussions? There are significant differences between a polemic and a dialogue. A true polemic is probably against the rules of this forum except between two non christian religions, as it amounts to promotion of religion.

What difference is going to matter to hindus or hinduism which is strongly based on incoherency?

Actually I care least for these words. I do change my opinions now and then. And I can adapt my views. Even now, I have picked up some of the words of nirotu, and do not dismiss just because he was a christian. I am not taught to simply decry anything just because it is against my views. We are humans, we need to understand which is more correct if it can be logically proven. Would you still beleive in flat earth theory? Or still believe in the Neils Bohrs atomic model. Whenever newer theories we discard the older ones as invalid. That is my approach to philosophy as well. If something does not stand logic, it has secondary importance in my beleifs. Infact, I do not beleive in fary tales - not even the fairy tales found in Hinduism. I am attracted to Hinduism for its philosophical depth, nothing more. I dont care for books like bible and quran, because they impose certain fairy tales and also scare me saying that I will land in hell if I dont beleive them.

Philosophical depth in incoherent hinduic literature full of myths, stories, so called mantras, tantras etc, which none can ever understand nor has any historical relevance? Man you must be joking!!!!!!

It is not a question of poor memory. It is because not much time is spent here. I am not passionate about a discussion with you, because you have no knowledge of Hinduism. Of course, I do debate with vigour on some Hindu forums. Anyone can nitpick here and there, but you have absolutely nothing to enter a discussion. You have not answered a single question so far? You revel in "contradictions" and if you answer some of the questions, you know what, you will end up doing the same thing.

As long as you continue in your incoherency and simply say that you don't care, what on earth makes you think that I would ever answer any of your question?

Hindu Dharma has to be naturally a little self contradictory in the strict sense as viewed from a Christian view point. That is because Hinduism does not require you arrive at the truth in one attempt. You do have many opportunities to arrive the real truth. Buddha Dharma also says the same thing. You do not commit one sin and get eternally banished into fire pit. Your mindset has hardly cleared from here. No Hindu beleives that Christianity is correct, but neither as incorrect.

All that you have done here has proved what I was saying all along about hinduism that hinduism is infact self-contradictory and that too in a strict sense. And thanks for doing that in here. The moment you admitted that with your own words, you can no longer boast hypocritically about any higher standards due to your own illusions or any spiritual superiority which is again probably due to the illusions in your mind. And man, isn't this the biggest problem with you that you seem to be blindly believing that you can arrive at truth by your own so called wisdom and debating skills? And for your information, with that statement of yours, you have destroyed all the so called intellectual posts of yours that you had been throwing out in here for months. All through you tried to argue that there was nothing self contradictory in your claims only to now sheepishly admit that hinduism naturally has to be self-contradictory in the strict sense from the Christian viewpoint. You know what? By that statement, you are confirming moreover that the "Christian viewpoint"(as ridiculed by you often here) can very well be effective in exposing out self-contradictory deceptive claims. Think about it. Actually, it need not even be Christian viewpoint. Even with any viewpoint, hinduism ends up contradicting itself.

We do believe that any personwho has faith in God in some way, or practices any religion that teaches good ethics and morals, will eventually lead him to the truth of Sanatana Dharma. Since we have many beleifs within Sanata Dharma, again the natural law that follows that a person will always finally land the correct faith within Sanatana DHarma. Just landing in a faith in not sufficient either. Ultimately, the goal in Hindu Dharma is go beyond mere faith into actual enlightenement and God seek, it is not about mere beleif in some stories.

Keep on imagining like that. When will you come out of your imaginary world?

It is only in this respect, other religions are considered valid. It has taken several months for you to even digest this small piece of knowledge.

Sorry. Isn't it that it has taken several months for you to digest the small piece of information that hinduism as such naturally is self-contradictory?

But what surprises me more, is Christianity with its one chance of finding the truth, is having hundreds of beleif systems with some of them claiming to be unqiue and only valid truth. This is a much bigger self contradcition than Hinduism. How can one bible be interpreted so differently by the Catholics, the Orthodox, the Christian Spiritst, the Unitarians, the Baptists, the JW, The Mormons etc. Dont you see that Christianity is the most self contradicting religion in the world?

Who told you that Christianity forces people to find the truth by themselves just purely with their own strength and so called wisdom? Oh I forgot that you are still stuck up in your imaginary world!!!!!!!!!

 

[rahul_sharma]

Let me state my own reasons why Christianity cannot be the "only truth".

1. The bible starts with the story of Adam and Eve, which is actually found in the Hindu puranas. IN the Hindu puranas, it is found as an insignificant thing along with rich philosophy and other stories, while this story takes centre stage in the bible.

2. There is no guarantee that there existed a person called Jesus. It is not even agreed upon by all historians. There is a decent chance given the fact that there is a religion called Christianity and there must have been some person behind it.

3. Even if we asume, the above there is nothing to prove that Jesus was God or a son of God, except from within the bible. The bible was not written by Jesus himself and composed at a later time. So that brings us to beleive in several more people, and beleive their words. Even if one of them were not honest enough, bible looses its infallibility. The four reseruction accounts of Mathew, Luke, John are all mutually contradictory.


4. Even if Jesus was the son of God he claimed to be, Hindus do not find that objectionable because our religions also accepts that concept. His resseruction story is debatable so much that, even many Christians do not beleive in his physical resseruction, leave alone the rest of the world.

5. Even if he resseucted, there is nothing to prove that he has saved everybody else by mere faith in his resseruction story. There are many stories of Hindu Yogis who have gone into samadhi well past 41 days, and yet returned back to life. Hindus do not really find anything amazing with this reserruction either.

6. The story of Jesus looks like nothing original. It has a lot of parallels to many other fiction or historical characters, including Krishna. One striking point I have noticed is that Jesus grew up in the place called Maturea( read Gospel of Infancy) and Krishna grew up in a place called Matura. Does not look to be a mere coincidence to me given other factors. Also there are many other parallels with pagan traditions.

7. Most of the characters in the Old Testament can be easily traced to Hindu mythology. Abrahamh, Sara, Issac are all found in Hindu mythology under the names Brahma, Saraswati, Isa etc. Virtually everything is connectable if you choose to do your homework.

8. If bible is the true word of God, it should be free from all errors, but it bounds in scientific errors, logical contradictions, internal inconsistancies, what not.

For a sample list of contradictions, read
http://www.infidels.org/library/mod...radictions.html

Many of the liberal wings of Chritianity have divorced from the dogma for these very reasons, and many christians no longer read the bible literally as it has a good potential for churning out atheists. There are many more bsurdities, but of course you are always free to beleive that you have got the 100% truth, based on mere assumptions and blind faith.

9. As an Indian, I have seen Christianity failing to make any impression in ndia and biting the dust in the face of Hinduism. Even with 400 years of British rule, all attempts by force, deciet, persuasion and coersion have yielded about 2% of christians in India.

That speaks how Adharmic religions can withstand the might of Dharmic traditions. Wherever there are well established Dharmic religions Abrahamic religions have scored a near zero. If at all some people will accept Christianity in these countries, it will be some uneducated and poor people who will readily buy any fairy tale in exchange for bread and butter.

Christianity is a major religion in the world not because of its logic or truth, but force, persuasion, coersion, deciet were all used in preaching the gospel (not generalizing though but this is true of India) and even then it has worked only in places where there were no Dharma traditions, poor people, illiterate people etc etc. If you think it is word of God, why not try and make most Hindus or Buddhist into Christians in India and East Asia countires?

For that matter, Christianity is loosing hold even in America and Europe where forms of Hinduism, Buddhism, New Age religions are on the rise.



Of course, I have many more reasons that I know for sure I am right about my assumption, but I stop here, because I know what your response will be - avoiding questions and my own comments and throwing up something else instead.


For somebody like me, Christianity and Islam will never appeal because they are closed idealogies and fully dogmatic and just use scare tactics. Even in Hinduism, I belonged to such a slightly dogmatic denomination, from which I am divorced for these reasons. As a human being, I have the right to investigate and choose my beleifs. Any religion that chokes this cannot be my beleif. Hence I currently belong to no demonination even in Hinduism, my beleifs are shaped by my reading all interpretations of scripture ( rather than blindly beliving only mine is true), examining all scriptures ( instead of 2-3 used by some schools above all), logical reasoning, personal testimonies and experiences etc. Only Dharmic traditions give this freedom. I am certainly a Vaishnavite, but I am not denominational.

I cannot belong to a system which needs to me to beleive in some myths as realities (like Adam and Eve stories and that too copied from Hindu scripture) and so I am always amused whenere you claim you have the truth.

He can't answer or he will not answer, tried to escape as usual. Why don't you directly challenge him by starting new OP based on this? Or simply start new thread with this as OP.

 

[ander_cool]

This is very interesting. I thought only Krishna to Christ part was copied from Hinduism to Christianity but here it looks like as if most of the things are copied and corrupted in Christianity. I want to start a new thread based on this.

 

[selwyn]

This is very interesting. I thought only Krishna to Christ part was copied from Hinduism to Christianity but here it looks like as if most of the things are copied and corrupted in Christianity. I want to start a new thread based on this.

Oh man!!! Can't control my laughter here. When the guy himself has admitted so many times that he is just speculating on lot of issues while also claiming that hinduism can be self-contradictory and can also have "partial truths", isn't it really interesting to see you hypocritically and blindly believe his claims in here as truth.

And isn't it ironical that you believe such big lies while none of the hindus even have the guts to claim the historicity of their very own so called God, krishna and sheepishly declare that it hardly matters for hinduism, even if he was nothing but a nons-sensical myth?

 

[indianx]

hinduism can be self-contradictory

This is what he said:

Hindu Dharma has to be naturally a little self contradictory in the strict sense as viewed from a Christian view point.
----------

Please stop lying, it's sickening what extent you go to twist his words.

Speaking about "historicity", please reveal your extraordinary archaelogical find of the existence of Adam and Eve.

 

[selwyn]

This is what he said:

Hindu Dharma has to be naturally a little self contradictory in the strict sense as viewed from a Christian view point.
----------

Please stop lying, it's sickening what extent you go to twist his words.

Speaking about "historicity", please reveal your extraordinary archaelogical find of the existence of Adam and Eve.

Who is lying in here? Man. Often your friends have indirectly admitted to self-contradiction also. Infact, Ram in one of his recent posts gone to the extent of waving his hands and saying sheepishly that he doesn't even remember now what he wrote in here earlier as an excuse when caught between his self-contradictory claims about hinduism. And your friend, Sudharshan still sticks to his claim that hinduic scripture as a whole is incoherent. And added to these, these guys have also admitted that they were speculating and I think it is Sudharshan who went to the extent of even saying that even hinduism as such cannot be fully true. When you guys have given so much allowances for lies in your claims, would it surprise anyone in here if you guys add up lies in the name of partial truths to your stories? Or could it be that you want to be incoherent about this issue also?

And man. Do you want evidence for Adam and Eve? Would you first go ahead and find evidence for your own so called Krishna? Do you first of all believe if he ever existed to begin with?

And man, Isn't it silly indeed for you to expect others to look at hinduism from hinduic viewpoint? At the other end, isn't it ironical to find someone talking about claims from Christian viewpoint in there, when obviously he has no clue about Christian viewpoint to begin with? Under such circumstances, isn't it obviously possible that he just twisted and labelled hypocritically his own viewpoint as "Christian viewpoint" in there to indirectly admit how he himself finds his so called hinduic claims self-contradictory after being exposed to the self-contradiction of hinduic claims?

 

[ander_cool]

Oh man!!! Can't control my laughter here. When the guy himself has admitted so many times that he is just speculating on lot of issues while also claiming that hinduism can be self-contradictory and can also have "partial truths", isn't it really interesting to see you hypocritically and blindly believe his claims in here as truth.

And isn't it ironical that you believe such big lies while none of the hindus even have the guts to claim the historicity of their very own so called God, krishna and sheepishly declare that it hardly matters for hinduism, even if he was nothing but a nons-sensical myth?

What? Once again lying? I think Hindus have prooved existence of Krishna better than Christians prooving existence of Jesus. I think name of that thread was"proove that Krishna and Jesus existed".

Hindus have not contradicted anything. It's much less than different denominations of Christianity who contradict each other. In Hinduism there is a place for differnt point of views but false Christianity has broken it's base when thousands of contradictory denominations emerged from one path Christianity and are still emerging and contradicting previous ones. I very well know that you know mess of Contradictions in Christianity that's why you don't want to defeat yourself, so best choice with you is run away and post non-sensical replies.

You have shown you don't have enough power to face Hindus here. All your posts can be described in one word "Contradiction" and after this you escape. Be a man, refute them if you can and don't make fun of Christianity because from your posts it looks like "Christianity can't protect itself from Sanatana Dharma". See all these points , only close minded people can close eyes and run. Christianity is nothing but copy-paste corrupted material from Spiritual depths of Sanatana Dhrama.

 

[MahaSudarshanChakra]

He can't answer or he will not answer, tried to escape as usual. Why don't you directly challenge him by starting new OP based on this? Or simply start new thread with this as OP.

Yeah, he answered all the junk and missed all the questions. As usual.

Rahul, we have challenged christains with many questions on Hindu forums (Hindunet and elsewhere) and they will have no logical answers.

Instead they will come up with attacks of caste sytem, sati etc - no basis whatsoever in Hindu scripture and we used to challenge them to show evidence, and nothing comes out.

Idol worship is another target but we do not have to accept the biblical version of it at all, who told you there is truth in the bible. Again these charges have been easily rebutted on Hindunet in the past.

No christian has ever dared to explain why the story of Adam and Eve is found in the Shiva Purana. Why Krishna and Jesus had so much in common, including the names of city they lived(Matura and Maturea) - we have really slienced all christians on Hindunet and other forums. Selwyn, can you explain?

All Hindus know that the bible myth is based on Hindu puranas atleast in part ( would have been good had it been based on the vedas and philosophy instead), but they just chose to borrow some fiction and leave out what was actually relevant.

 

[MahaSudarshanChakra]

And isn't it ironical that you believe such big lies while none of the hindus even have the guts to claim the historicity of their very own so called God, krishna and sheepishly declare that it hardly matters for hinduism, even if he was nothing but a nons-sensical myth?

So if Jesus was copied from a nonsensical myth, then what does it amount to?
You can continue to fool peasants, but never the elite.

Infact, wherever missionaries use foul tactics in India, I am planning to distribute a booklet that explains how Christianity came out of Hinduism - I am certainly planning this. I will compare everything, every character in the Old Testament, New Testamaent and all Hindu Puranas - and if you have refutations of these claims I wil be glad to defend them for you. Let us see if your myth can stand up scrutiny, other than by hiding or hand waving.

I dont care about what you do outside India, you can take your freedom. The next time I hear some missionary slandering Lord Krishna or Hinduism in India, I will be composing a book and exposing all these myths for which you can give no answers, Atleast no answers to fool the educated and well versed. It is a challenge. If you can and know enough, refute it here.

Having said this, I beleive in the historicty of both Lord Krishna and Jesus and I do beleive they are both divine incarnations of God. But if your job is to go about slandering when there is enough proof to counter you, then better face the open challenge.

You know why I accept the greatness of Jesus - because I beleive no religion like the might of Christianity can ever be established without the direct sanction of the Lord. God will never allowed millions of Christians into fooled into belieiving or following a fraud. Hence Jesus has to nothing short of an inacrnation of God, but that does not mean his followers have been incarnations or upto the task. Similarly, Lord Krishna's teachings have been neglected by most Hindus and was responsible for the downfall of Hinduism and its slavery for years.

 

[selwyn]

What? Once again lying? I think Hindus have prooved existence of Krishna better than Christians prooving existence of Jesus. I think name of that thread was"proove that Krishna and Jesus existed".

Oh man!!! Why do you want to desperately close your eyes so tightly as if you are blind to avoid seeing the wealth of historical and archealogical evidences out there for the historic Christian faith? Tell me that you don't want to believe Christ. Don't tell me there are no evidences and end up decieving yourself in here.

And what is that thread again? It probably was put up here before I joined in here. With my experience in here with the claims of the most hindus here in the forum, I am pretty sure that there will be someone out here who will say now that he forgot what he said or doesn't care about his own words or that his mood was different then, if questioned about his so called "true" claims now.

Hindus have not contradicted anything.

Isn't that a big lie? Hindus themselves have admitted to that sometimes directly and sometimes indirectly in their recent posts.

It's much less than different denominations of Christianity who contradict each other.

And see the irony in here. Immediately after saying that they have not contradicting anything, you are hypocritically claiming that it is "much lesser contradiction" Have you determined in here your mind to prove your own self contradictions and demonstrate the confusions within your mind by your posts in here?

In Hinduism there is a place for differnt point of views but false Christianity has broken it's base when thousands of contradictory denominations emerged from one path Christianity and are still emerging and contradicting previous ones.

You seem to be thoroughly confused indeed!! What on earth do you know about Christianity to begin with?

I very well know that you know mess of Contradictions in Christianity that's why you don't want to defeat yourself, so best choice with you is run away and post non-sensical replies.

Keep on guessing and assuming!!!!! And oh man!!! As you are demonstrating in here, just because you are lost in here with your blind desire for so called logical debate victories, do you really think that everyone in here is also lost like that?

You have shown you don't have enough power to face Hindus here.

What? Am I waging a war in here? That is indeed hilarious!!!!!

All your posts can be described in one word "Contradiction" and after this you escape. Be a man, refute them if you can

You know what? Isn't it sometimes easier to make blind men see? But can anyone ever help someone whose posts in here demonstrate that he/she is blind and pretends to see? Or can anyone help someone whose posts demonstrate in here that he/she acts blind by closing his/her eyes even after being exposed to light?

At the other end, what on earth do you think about God? Do you think that He is so cheap that you can debate Him over here and take pride in your so called hypocritical debate victories assuming that you had found God? Man. Do you really think that I am in here to prove my own debating capabilities? And are you guys going to crown anyone on his so called victory in debate? And what more can be pathetic than the status of people who get in here to just demonstrate their so called "refuting capacity, their own pride, their so called smart debating skills and so called manliness" in a simple web forum while ending up on the loosing side for eternity? Could it be that you are caught up too much with religion that you don't even mind missing God and the absolute truth in the thirst for your so called logical debate victories?!!!!

and don't make fun of Christianity because from your posts it looks like "Christianity can't protect itself from Sanatana Dharma".

After ridiculing Christianity to the core in here, I wonder how on earth could you even say anything like this in here? Again, what on earth do you know about Christianity? Forget that. I have my own doubts about your so called knowledge about the so called sanatana dharma. By your posts you seem to be proving that you are thoroughly confused in here.

You have really sounded hilarious in here.

See all these points , only close minded people can close eyes and run.

Are you talking about your own posts in here?

Christianity is nothing but copy-paste corrupted material from Spiritual depths of Sanatana Dhrama.

That is really an ambitious lie indeed.And I am really surprised that there are people here who believe these stories too.

 

[selwyn]

Yeah, he answered all the junk and missed all the questions. As usual.

Rahul, we have challenged christains with many questions on Hindu forums (Hindunet and elsewhere) and they will have no logical answers.

Since when did you start liking logical answers? Or could it be that you are assuming that logical answers are incoherent? Weren't you basically boasting all along so far about the incoherence and incoherent answers of your so called hindu scriptures?

Instead they will come up with attacks of caste sytem, sati etc - no basis whatsoever in Hindu scripture and we used to challenge them to show evidence, and nothing comes out.

Are you really saying that Sankaracharya is spreading lies about hinduism when he infact justifies both casteism based on birth as well as sati based on his own set of reasoning?

Idol worship is another target but we do not have to accept the biblical version of it at all, who told you there is truth in the bible. Again these charges have been easily rebutted on Hindunet in the past.

Oh!!! Are you referring to how people are thrown out of hindu forums unceremoniously due to their own sense of insecurity in there?

No christian has ever dared to explain why the story of Adam and Eve is found in the Shiva Purana.

Why Krishna and Jesus had so much in common, including the names of city they lived(Matura and Maturea) - we have really slienced all christians on Hindunet and other forums. Selwyn, can you explain?


All Hindus know that the bible myth is based on Hindu puranas atleast in part ( would have been good had it been based on the vedas and philosophy instead), but they just chose to borrow some fiction and leave out what was actually relevant.

What kind of explanation do you want here? Are you the same person who at one end writes that you believe in the historicity of Jesus while at the other end hypocritically claims that it is all myth and story. Man. What is wrong with you? Can't you make up your mind one way or the other? And for which version of your claim do you really want an explanation - your belief that Jesus is historical or again your belief that He is a myth? And what explanation do you really want? And given the fact that you guys have already agreed that hinduism contains partial truths, speculations and infact myths, how difficult it is for anyone to know which is copied from what?
Man. Won' you ever learn to be consistent with your claims here first to ask for any explanation to begin with. You seem to be oscillating too much as you have demonstrated here even with your very next post in which you yourself have said that you do believe the historicity of Jesus. Man, Here is what you have said below in your next post

Having said this, I beleive in the historicty of both Lord Krishna and Jesus and I do beleive they are both divine incarnations of God.

You can't escape that fact of historicity and Divinity of Christ no matter where you want to oscillate with your words in here with your deep desire for a mere victory in a debate in here. Ofcourse, you do claim there something similar about your so called Krishna simoltaneously which in itself is a confusing calim. But who knows what you will say in your very next post about that claim?!!!!!
After all, isn't it very well known that hindus hardly consider the so called Krishna's very existence as anything important to hinduism?


As I had already stated here, your arguments in here are nothing better than dead snakes.

 

[arunma]

I think Hindus have prooved existence of Krishna better than Christians prooving existence of Jesus.

No they haven't. It seems to me that you just invented this fact for the purpose of this debate.

 

[selwyn]

So if Jesus was copied from a nonsensical myth, then what does it amount to?

What on earth makes you assume that as even a possibility when you yourself claim to believe in the historicity of Jesus later?

You can continue to fool peasants, but never the elite.

Who is the elite in here?

Infact, wherever missionaries use foul tactics in India, I am planning to distribute a booklet that explains how Christianity came out of Hinduism - I am certainly planning this. I will compare everything, every character in the Old Testament, New Testamaent and all Hindu Puranas - and if you have refutations of these claims I wil be glad to defend them for you. Let us see if your myth can stand up scrutiny, other than by hiding or hand waving.


I dont care about what you do outside India, you can take your freedom. The next time I hear some missionary slandering Lord Krishna or Hinduism in India, I will be composing a book and exposing all these myths for which you can give no answers, Atleast no answers to fool the educated and well versed. It is a challenge. If you can and know enough, refute it here.

Man. You are very much free to try and do whatever that is possible from your end in your struggle against Christ and Christianity. This is an age old game which so many people before you have tried unsuccessfully over centuries. History has shown time and again that whenever people tried fighting against Christ and the historic Christian faith, who the loser is. And have you heard that famous statement that "it is hard for anyone to kick against the thorns". It sounds like that is what you are upto.

Having said this, I beleive in the historicty of both Lord Krishna and Jesus and I do beleive they are both divine incarnations of God. But if your job is to go about slandering when there is enough proof to counter you, then better face the open challenge.


You know why I accept the greatness of Jesus - because I beleive no religion like the might of Christianity can ever be established without the direct sanction of the Lord. God will never allowed millions of Christians into fooled into belieiving or following a fraud. Hence Jesus has to nothing short of an inacrnation of God, but that does not mean his followers have been incarnations or upto the task. Similarly, Lord Krishna's teachings have been neglected by most Hindus and was responsible for the downfall of Hinduism and its slavery for years.

Now that is a total twist to your mission statement given above. Man. Even before starting your mission, you have destroyed your very own claims. This is a suicidal campaign plan from your side. You seem to be often fighting against yourself and your own claims. You cannot struggle against Christ and Christianity by believing on Him. And can't you still realize, why truth if it is truth indeed has to be exclusive by definition? Anyway, try whatever is possible from your side in India or even abroad. And don't be surprised if you ended up accepting Christ as your own Saviour in that process.

 

[Proud Hindu]

Now that is a total twist to your mission statement given above. Man. Even before starting your mission, you have destroyed your very own claims. This is a suicidal campaign plan from your side. You seem to be often fighting against yourself and your own claims. You cannot struggle against Christ and Christianity by believing on Him. And can't you still realize, why truth if it is truth indeed has to be exclusive by definition? Anyway, try whatever is possible from your side in India or even abroad. And don't be surprised if you ended up accepting Christ as your own Saviour in that process.

Says who? Who made you an authority on Jesus and His teachings?

 

[MahaSudarshanChakra]

Man. You are very much free to try and do whatever that is possible from your end in your struggle against Christ and Christianity. This is an age old game which so many people before you have tried unsuccessfully over centuries. History has shown time and again that whenever people tried fighting against Christ and the historic Christian faith, who the loser is. And have you heard that famous statement that "it is hard for anyone to kick against the thorns". It sounds like that is what you are upto.

Ha ha, Christianity is 2% in India after 400 years of evangelizing by any means!! And draws zero everywhere there is a Dharmic tradition in the world. It is even disappearing in Europe slowly. My dear, Christianity has never been and never will thrive wherever there is a Dharmic tradition. Infact, Christianity has burnt its fingers many times in these countries, on a daily basis. Mere empty boast, first prove your statement. Dont you know your very frustration is due to this ousting and being unsuccessful?

As far as proving, Christianity has been cleanly ousted in Buddhist countires, if you did not know that, thru debates where you guys cant defend your mythologies. Of course, you are free to spread your base in Africa, South America etc...not India or Asia, where we already have powerful religions.

Now that is a total twist to your mission statement given above. Man. Even before starting your mission, you have destroyed your very own claims. This is a suicidal campaign plan from your side. You seem to be often fighting against yourself and your own claims. You cannot struggle against Christ and Christianity by believing on Him. And can't you still realize, why truth if it is truth indeed has to be exclusive by definition? Anyway, try whatever is possible from your side in India or even abroad. And don't be surprised if you ended up accepting Christ as your own Saviour in that process.

I am not fighting against myself. I will prove that your version of Christianity is twisted. Christ has nothing to do with your version of Christinaity, which is nothing but imported myth. Have you been able to touch any of the arguments raised here? You wont be, and no one wont be. Truth is exclusive and not following that is doom, is your dogma. Hindus never beleive truth is inclusive either, that is your imagination, but we do not beleive that absence of truth leads to an eternal torture.

Only people who dont beleive in themselves accept somebody else as saviour. For me, there is God the father and I dont need a son. Dont build castles in the air and day dream about it. Like you always love to say, "I also know I am 100% right".

 

[NickD]

where we already have powerful religions.

If your religion is powerful, why it is not spread all over world?

Do you know you guys started spreading your religion in western countries after formation of organizations like ISKCON and majority of hindus started coming to western countries on IT basis before that, Hinduism was null!