Respecting the dead...

[stan1980]

I don't think most people who say they will celebrate someone's (like Thatcher) death actually will, or actually wish for their death. I think it is mostly boastful talk, exaggeration of their real feelings, which likely don't in reality amount to much more than dislike.

I hope you're right, I will honestly feel shame on behalf of my fellow citizens if they are publicly celebrating her death or sabotage her funeral or anything like that.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

I don't care about grave dancing...and iam not going to tell others what is the "appropriate" response to someone's death. Instead of looking at reactions we should look at the causes of those reactions by examining 3 necessary aspects. Who died? How are people reacting? How are particular groups reacting? By looking at those three areas we can conclude if grave dancing is understood even if not condoned, if the grave dancing is rooted more in the hate of a particular group versus the actions of the deceased, and see what fruits the person's life produced. (Of course we can't see all good or bad fruits.)

In short, PC deaths should die. Let's not repress reactions because there is much to be learned which could aid in how we write our own eulogies.

 

[stan1980]

I don't care about grave dancing...and iam not going to tell others what is the "appropriate" response to someone's death. Instead of looking at reactions we should look at the causes of those reactions by examining 3 necessary aspects. Who died? How are people reacting? How are particular groups reacting? By looking at those three areas we can conclude if grave dancing is understood even if not condoned, if the grave dancing is rooted more in the hate of a particular group versus the actions of the deceased, and see what fruits the person's life produced. (Of course we can't see all good or bad fruits.)

In short, PC deaths should die. Let's not repress reactions because there is much to be learned which could aid in how we write our own eulogies.

Wise words. Personally, I think the overreaction regarding her is for a combination of two reasons.

Firstly, she was the leader of the conservative party, which became very unpopular in the 90s although they are recently seeing a resurgence. They have a reputation in our country of being 'stuffy' and favouring and representing the middle class rather than the working class. They're traditionally the most right wing or capitalistic party, which meant if you were successful in life, great, if not, not so great.

Secondly, she is a female. I get the impression that because of this, any mistakes she made are magnified... it's almost like women aren't allowed to make mistakes now we've given or trusted her with the job. She did well to last as long as she did, and like her or loath her, that is testament to her strong leadership qualities. She took over a country that had virtually grind to a standstill and brought it kicking and screaming into the 21st century. She was ruthless, she had to be. The working class man didn't like it, especially as she was female.

It will be interesting to see how Obama does if wins his election. I think he'll be in a similar position to Thatcher, where any mistakes he makes will be magnified and he'll be under much more scrutiny than anyone in the past, much like Thatcher. Where they differ though, is that Obama appears to be more an inspirational man, rather than a man who will make tough unpopular decisions, though who can tell...

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Wise words. Personally, I think the overreaction regarding her is for a combination of two reasons.

Firstly, she was the leader of the conservative party, which became very unpopular in the 90s although they are recently seeing a resurgence. They have a reputation in our country of being 'stuffy' and favouring and representing the middle class rather than the working class. They're traditionally the most right wing or capitalistic party, which meant if you were successful in life, great, if not, not so great.

Secondly, she is a female. I get the impression that because of this, any mistakes she made are magnified... it's almost like women aren't allowed to make mistakes now we've given or trusted her with the job. She did well to last as long as she did, and like her or loath her, that is testament to her strong leadership qualities. She took over a country that had virtually grind to a standstill and brought it kicking and screaming into the 21st century. She was ruthless, she had to be. The working class man didn't like it, especially as she was female.

It will be interesting to see how Obama does if wins his election. I think he'll be in a similar position to Thatcher, where any mistakes he makes will be magnified and he'll be under much more scrutiny than anyone in the past, much like Thatcher. Where they differ though, is that Obama appears to be more an inspirational man, rather than a man who will make tough unpopular decisions, though who can tell...

Great point about the magnification and over bearing scrutiny and that is obviously due her keeping people abreast of her authority. She was also seen as dealing head to head with Reagan which is liked by some but despised by others. A great movie on a high ranking female politician is The Contender. It's racist as hell but shows the many double standards when it comes to male v female.

It is also a good point about obama and the double standards are already being screamed from the roof tops. Partly because he is a dem but more because he isn't white. IRL I come across people who exude pure childlike fear that if he gets in office we will no longer be allowed to celebrate Christmas and all pork products will be made illegal. Anymore politics is more about whining versus actually doing something or even an attempt to be self-informed.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

I think the vilification of Thatcher has very little to do with the specific state of her party at that time, and even less to do with her sex.

She is loathed because of her ideas and how she enacted them. Reagan was neither a Tory nor a woman, and I despise him as much as her.

 

[MarcusHill]

I don't think I would ever wish a living person to be dead in any normal situation (i.e. it's not a living person who is about to shoot me, or some other such contrived situation). I would wish that they lose power, influence or the ability to continue whatever harmful acts led me to dislike them.

On the other hand, I don't hold with being false when someone does die. There are people where I think the world is genuinely a better place without them, and in those cases I feel relief when they die - I wouldn't say joy, I have too much empathy for the friends and family of the deceased to be completely elated.

As for Thatcher, although I thoroughly disagree with most of what she did, she has what I regard to be one of the most important qualities in a politician. She was clear and uncompromising in everything she did. You knew where she stood, and you knew she'd follow through on that standpoint, so you knew exactly what you were voting for if you voted for her. I wish that more politicians would be that clear, we might be able to find some differences between the stated policies of the main parties then.